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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    If anything, it was Stark who was shoved to the side to pump up Pym for a very long time. I get the impression that the Avengers writers prefered to work with characters they fully controlled. Consequently the Big Three...weren't that big most of the time. The Avengers was the soap-opera story of the Pyms, Magneto's children, Vision who was simultaneously Ultron's child, Wonderman's quasi-brother, and Wanda's boyfriend, and just all the soap-opera quasi-incestuous relationships between them. One of the few times that Stark wasn't just a background bit of furniture was when he was used as a villain in the Wasp/Hank soap-opera.
    Or that situation with killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence (for however long that lasted) and later turning out to be an agent of Kang "for years," which was eventually revised to "months." Of course, nobody likes talking about that, and for good reason.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #107
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Or that situation with killing the Kree Supreme Intelligence (for however long that lasted) and later turning out to be an agent of Kang "for years," which was eventually revised to "months." Of course, nobody likes talking about that, and for good reason.
    The Crossing. Man was that bad. At least Busiek and Pacheco did what they could to fix it in Avengers Forever.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
    The Crossing. Man was that bad. At least Busiek and Pacheco did what they could to fix it in Avengers Forever.
    Yeah. Speaking of, I saw a copy of Avengers Forever in my local bookstore. Rereleased TPB, I think. Probably should give it a read sometime, especially since Spider-Man 2099 is one of the alternate-future Avengers.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah. Speaking of, I saw a copy of Avengers Forever in my local bookstore. Rereleased TPB, I think. Probably should give it a read sometime, especially since Spider-Man 2099 is one of the alternate-future Avengers.
    You should grab it if you can. It's a really really good story.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  5. #110
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    Hank is one of my favorite characters because he is so flawed. But he is given shocking treatment by both writers and other heroes. During a breakdown he hit janet once and has been made to recall it constantly ever since.
    it is brought up way less than him creating Ultron. and why does this bother you? you supposedly like his flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    As soon as the blow was struck he knew he had screwed up.
    that's entirely untrue. after he struck the blow, he went on to attack his friends with an "indestructible" robot. they could have been killed. and, even then, what got to him was that Jan saved everyone. go reread it. i'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    He was made to pay and pay
    he only paid once. Jan divorced him. and it most likely didn't cost him anything. Jan's loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    and there was never any real support from the rest of the super hero community.
    Clint Barton gave him a pretty important place on his West Coast Avengers roster. and none of his teammates brought up the spousal abuse during that time. Firebird even saved him from taking the coward's way out.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    I have seen more helped dished out to characters like Sabretooth (xavier taking him in and helping him) for example.
    I've probably read every Sabretooth story up until he started looking more like Tyler Mane. after Logan gave him a lobotomy, several of the X-Men made attempts on Creed's life while he was manacled. and Pym's not a mutant. i'm not sure why we're bringing up the X-Men. they routinely give second and third chances to characters who don't deserve them.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    But if they ever needed help with something in Hank's field of expertise then they wouldn't hesitate to call on him.
    that's probably how his ego became so inflated. if he didn't have the science, no one would care about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    I don't even recall anyone asking for Dr Samson to speak to him and help him out (like xfactor under peter david did for the team).
    that's because of that inflated ego I mentioned. Pym thinks that he's smarter than the whole of the psychiatric community. the skrull who impersonated him did seek out help from Samson. it was taking mood stabilizing medication like a responsible person.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    He is treated like a tool by pretty much everyone.
    he is a tool!

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    As a founding member of the Avengers surely he deserved some measure of respect for all the good (and there is a lot of it) that he has done in years since but all is ever recounted are his failures. Would have been nice for someone at some point to give him a break.
    they should have revoked his founder status. dude's over 6 feet tall and he backhands a woman known for being petite. there are supervillains who are better humans than Hank Pym.



    I like him because of his flaws because even though he is not always mentally well no matter what hank continues to try and do what is right time and again, people turn there back on him repeatedly but still he cracks on regardless, even using his powers when he thought it would kill him because the job needed to be done and he was the only one that could do it.
    check out hank's face after the slap and you can see the regret. The attack on the team is a different matter altogether. he pays every time he is used these days, people forget the hundreds of times he has saved the day (and world) and just seem to treat him with a total lack of respect. For someone who was dubbed scientist supreme that seems out of place.
    I mention the x-men in that example as they are all part of the same universe and they are heroes (who have worked with hank and the other avengers repeatedly). And it isn't just the x-men that have ignored peoples murderous past and let them have another shot, hell the whole of the thunderbolts team under hawkeye is another example
    ego is often an symptom of ill mental health something they would know if they actually showed any true compassion to a man who struggles on his own.
    Revoking status is a nonsense, hulk is still a founder, he has killed plenty while angry (he's cool though, everyone ignores that as it's the hulk, banner can't help it) rage and violence mental illness and he has had treatment and still not much better and hey that cool cos hank hit a woman once so let's vilify him instead.
    Tony Stark is as corrupt and broken as 10 super villains and has screwed his team and friends and the whole world more times than i can count but somehow he has the audacity to look down upon hank, and guess what, cos it is good ole tony, no one actually seems to care.

  6. #111
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    @ maklelin highbain don't try to convince Watkins of anything regarding Hank and doom as he hates both doom and Hank with a passion that almost is fanatical that is if you were responding to him and not posting a general reply.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    Hank is one of my favorite characters because he is so flawed. But he is given shocking treatment by both writers and other heroes. During a breakdown he hit janet once and has been made to recall it constantly ever since.
    it is brought up way less than him creating Ultron. and why does this bother you? you supposedly like his flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    As soon as the blow was struck he knew he had screwed up.
    that's entirely untrue. after he struck the blow, he went on to attack his friends with an "indestructible" robot. they could have been killed. and, even then, what got to him was that Jan saved everyone. go reread it. i'll wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    He was made to pay and pay
    he only paid once. Jan divorced him. and it most likely didn't cost him anything. Jan's loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    and there was never any real support from the rest of the super hero community.
    Clint Barton gave him a pretty important place on his West Coast Avengers roster. and none of his teammates brought up the spousal abuse during that time. Firebird even saved him from taking the coward's way out.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    I have seen more helped dished out to characters like Sabretooth (xavier taking him in and helping him) for example.
    I've probably read every Sabretooth story up until he started looking more like Tyler Mane. after Logan gave him a lobotomy, several of the X-Men made attempts on Creed's life while he was manacled. and Pym's not a mutant. i'm not sure why we're bringing up the X-Men. they routinely give second and third chances to characters who don't deserve them.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    But if they ever needed help with something in Hank's field of expertise then they wouldn't hesitate to call on him.
    that's probably how his ego became so inflated. if he didn't have the science, no one would care about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    I don't even recall anyone asking for Dr Samson to speak to him and help him out (like xfactor under peter david did for the team).
    that's because of that inflated ego I mentioned. Pym thinks that he's smarter than the whole of the psychiatric community. the skrull who impersonated him did seek out help from Samson. it was taking mood stabilizing medication like a responsible person.

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    He is treated like a tool by pretty much everyone.
    he is a tool!

    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    As a founding member of the Avengers surely he deserved some measure of respect for all the good (and there is a lot of it) that he has done in years since but all is ever recounted are his failures. Would have been nice for someone at some point to give him a break.
    they should have revoked his founder status. dude's over 6 feet tall and he backhands a woman known for being petite. there are supervillains who are better humans than Hank Pym.



    I like him because of his flaws because even though he is not always mentally well no matter what hank continues to try and do what is right time and again, people turn there back on him repeatedly but still he cracks on regardless, even using his powers when he thought it would kill him because the job needed to be done and he was the only one that could do it.
    check out hank's face after the slap and you can see the regret. The attack on the team is a different matter altogether. he pays every time he is used these days, people forget the hundreds of times he has saved the day (and world) and just seem to treat him with a total lack of respect. For someone who was dubbed scientist supreme that seems out of place.
    I mention the x-men in that example as they are all part of the same universe and they are heroes (who have worked with hank and the other avengers repeatedly). And it isn't just the x-men that have ignored peoples murderous past and let them have another shot, hell the whole of the thunderbolts team under hawkeye is another example
    ego is often an symptom of ill mental health something they would know if they actually showed any true compassion to a man who struggles on his own.
    Revoking status is a nonsense, hulk is still a founder, he has killed plenty while angry (he's cool though, everyone ignores that as it's the hulk, banner can't help it) rage and violence mental illness and he has had treatment and still not much better and hey that cool cos hank hit a woman once so let's vilify him instead.
    Tony Stark is as corrupt and broken as 10 super villains and has screwed his team and friends and the whole world more times than i can count but somehow he has the audacity to look down upon hank, and guess what, cos it is good ole tony, no one actually seems to care.
    One of the many reasons I love Tony is because he's flawed and suffers from Mental issues too. He suffers from Major Depressive Disorder and addiction in the comics and PTSD and Anxiety in the movies. He has had several known mental breakdowns. Although what you stated about Tony being worst than 10 super villains is just nonsensical. Tony always pay's for his mistakes. He's done more for the Avengers than almost anyone. People always bring up things Tony has done. Hell people still bring up Civil War and it was years ago. So about they just letting ole Tony back in when he damn well pleases is far from true.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 01-23-2019 at 07:45 PM.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  8. #113
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    oh wow they still bring up civil war and it was years ago? what about a decade or so, so not like the 37 years since hank/janet incident.
    armour wars, that was what a villain would do.
    The crossing, that's what a villain would do.
    civil war, that's what a villain would do.
    also, do you recall a storyline from Execute Program? (iron man 2005 run, just before civil war) You know the one, the one where his suit of armour went rogue and murdered a bunch of people?? Wait! Isn't that the same irreversibly evil mistake that Hank made with Ultron 1? I guess the difference is that when Hank makes an AI it is a total badass where as Tony's was a bit substandard by the same measuring stick. Guess that is why Hank was named Scientist Supreme and not Tony.
    the illuminati, everything they did, how many people in alternate universes were killed by their actions? (I can't genuinely think of anyone else that has caused destruction on the same scale as this in my 40 yers of reading marvel comics
    But that's ok cos he is tony stark, let's give the guy a break after all the hard times he has suffered.
    you can't have one rule for hank pym (beat him with his entirely mental health caused mistakes from 37 years ago) and another for tony. My point is that Tony gets a ridiculous amount of support whereas Hank has been left high and dry time and again. Hell even his time in prison didn't attempt to address his mental health needs (fair enough it was a much different time back then for the treatment of mental health).

    @theoneandonly yeah well put me on Team Hank.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    oh wow they still bring up civil war and it was years ago? what about a decade or so, so not like the 37 years since hank/janet incident.
    armour wars, that was what a villain would do.
    The crossing, that's what a villain would do.
    civil war, that's what a villain would do.
    also, do you recall a storyline from Execute Program? (iron man 2005 run, just before civil war) You know the one, the one where his suit of armour went rogue and murdered a bunch of people?? Wait! Isn't that the same irreversibly evil mistake that Hank made with Ultron 1? I guess the difference is that when Hank makes an AI it is a total badass where as Tony's was a bit substandard by the same measuring stick. Guess that is why Hank was named Scientist Supreme and not Tony.
    the illuminati, everything they did, how many people in alternate universes were killed by their actions? (I can't genuinely think of anyone else that has caused destruction on the same scale as this in my 40 yers of reading marvel comics
    But that's ok cos he is tony stark, let's give the guy a break after all the hard times he has suffered.
    you can't have one rule for hank pym (beat him with his entirely mental health caused mistakes from 37 years ago) and another for tony. My point is that Tony gets a ridiculous amount of support whereas Hank has been left high and dry time and again. Hell even his time in prison didn't attempt to address his mental health needs (fair enough it was a much different time back then for the treatment of mental health).

    @theoneandonly yeah well put me on Team Hank.
    Two of the storylines you bring up he was mind controlled which are Execute Program and The Crossing. Might want to research those before you bring them up. Also was Pym under mind control when he made Ultron? That is not really a cool thing to brag about as it's only killed millions upon millions of people. Civil War had a lot of OOC moments for Tony, but they are canon so I can't argue those. So to you it's OK to forgive Pym his mental issues, but not Tony's? Also Loki told him he wasn't the Scientist Supreme as it was Loki playing him. So no. The Illuminati were trying to do good. Did it come back and bite them in the ass? Yes, but they did some good. Even though bad came out of it. So I will and always will be Team Tony. He's my idol and he's done more for the Avengers that Hank Pym ever has.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 01-23-2019 at 07:46 PM.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  10. #115
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    he seems to have an extraordinarily weak will as he is constantly being mind controlled all the time. Perhaps because he truly believes himself above the laws that govern mankind so feels he can do as he pleases without any true consequences. Is it truly safe to let tony even have a suit of armour? if all it takes is a bit of subliminal messaging and he is more than willing to murder friends and colleagues. Can't think of many cold blooded murders to pin on Hank. Shot the elf that lead to his famous court marshal that lead to the slapping affair, but that was in the heat of combat when he was truly unwell. bit of kang whispering in tony's ear and Yellow jacket and marilla pay the ultimate price.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    he seems to have an extraordinarily weak will as he is constantly being mind controlled all the time. Perhaps because he truly believes himself above the laws that govern mankind so feels he can do as he pleases without any true consequences. Is it truly safe to let tony even have a suit of armour? if all it takes is a bit of subliminal messaging and he is more than willing to murder friends and colleagues. Can't think of many cold blooded murders to pin on Hank. Shot the elf that lead to his famous court marshal that lead to the slapping affair, but that was in the heat of combat when he was truly unwell. bit of kang whispering in tony's ear and Yellow jacket and marilla pay the ultimate price.
    So what you are saying is that Tony who suffers from Major Depressive Disorder and Addiction is weak minded enough for Kang to easily control, but Pym who has mental issues as well has and had a episode and hit his wife is not as easily manipulated?! He is has a stronger mind because he wasn't controlled?! According to you it's ok to forgive Hank for his mental illness and not Tony for his or blaming Tony for things he wasn't in control over?! OK. lol. That is the very definition of hypocrisy. Can't argue with that. That's fox news tactics.
    Last edited by Tony Stark; 01-22-2019 at 07:43 AM.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  12. #117
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    exactly my point if you look back, you have to follow the same rules for all.

    you can't have one rule for hank pym (beat him with his entirely mental health caused mistakes from 37 years ago) and another for tony. was my point.

    you vilify hank but yet stark seems to be able to whitewash away any faults.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by maklelin highbain View Post
    exactly my point if you look back, you have to follow the same rules for all.

    you can't have one rule for hank pym (beat him with his entirely mental health caused mistakes from 37 years ago) and another for tony. was my point.

    you vilify hank but yet stark seems to be able to whitewash away any faults.
    Were have a villfied Hank?!?!? I like Hank Pym. In no way have I said anything disrespectful of him. You have been the one wanting your cake and eating it too.
    "We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark

  14. #119
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    they should have revoked his founder status. dude's over 6 feet tall and he backhands a woman known for being petite. there are supervillains who are better humans than Hank Pym.

    He is treated like a tool by pretty much everyone.
    he is a tool!

    that's probably how his ego became so inflated. if he didn't have the science, no one would care about him.

    Clint Barton gave him a pretty important place on his West Coast Avengers roster. and none of his teammates brought up the spousal abuse during that time. Firebird even saved him from taking the coward's way out.

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    no cake thanks.

    just think that people whom idolize tony truly need to look at his actions in the last 60 years and realize the sun shines from the heavens and not out of stark.

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