Tony Stark, at the end of, Civil War

[TkizTwisTeD]

I just finished reading Marvel's Civil War. First of all, I can't believe Captain America surrendered the way he did, right as he was finally winning, but even worse. I find out in, Civil War Frontline #11 Tony Stark had controlled, Norman Osborne with nanites. To force him to kill an Atlanian. To boost Stark Industries stocks, and pressure hero's to register against a common enemy, the Atlanians. FYI I will now, and forever hate Tony Stark, and Reed Richards. Reed for the negitive zone prison, 42. My question is, does anyone ever find out what Stark did, besides Ben Ulrich, and the other reporter? If so which comic or comics, is he found out?

[Tony Stark]

I just finished reading Marvel's Civil War. First of all, I can't believe Captain America surrendered the way he did, right as he was finally winning, but even worse. I find out in, Civil War Frontline #11 Tony Stark had controlled, Norman Osborne with nanites. To force him to kill an Atlanian. To boost Stark Industries stocks, and pressure hero's to register against a common enemy, the Atlanians. FYI I will now, and forever hate Tony Stark, and Reed Richards. Reed for the negitive zone prison, 42. My question is, does anyone ever find out what Stark did, besides Ben Ulrich, and the other reporter? If so which comic or comics, is he found out?

Norman didn't kill the Atlantean. It was an old gun that was given to Osborn because it would barely hurt the Atlantean. Believe me this is not an excuse for what Tony did. Just clearing up something you said. As to your question. No one ever finds out that Tony did that. Only the 2 reporters know about it to this day.

[TkizTwisTeD]

That figures, Tony destroys the ideal of freedom, manages to win the war, and still comes out Smelling like roses, When he is found out. DEATH TO TONY STARK!!!

[Ichijinijisanji]

[jackolover]

I just finished reading Marvel's Civil War. First of all, I can't believe Captain America surrendered the way he did, right as he was finally winning, but even worse. I find out in, Civil War Frontline #11 Tony Stark had controlled, Norman Osborne with nanites. To force him to kill an Atlanian. To boost Stark Industries stocks, and pressure hero's to register against a common enemy, the Atlanians. FYI I will now, and forever hate Tony Stark, and Reed Richards. Reed for the negitive zone prison, 42. My question is, does anyone ever find out what Stark did, besides Ben Ulrich, and the other reporter? If so which comic or comics, is he found out?

It was a very poor showing for Tony Stark and it was hard for him to come back from that. One thing we do learn about Stark from Civil War is the depth of his commitment to Super Heroes. No matter how we criticise Tony Stark for his methods regarding Civil War, Stark uses his instincts and political experience to navigate the extremely strong storm that batters super heroes. I have come to the conclusion most of the super heroes are bad guys. I know. It’s a very negative conclusion. But I temper this understanding with the fact that the Marvel Universe doctrine holds that not only the fictional super heroes, but we all of us are bad guys, but we do good things for the right reasons. It’s this that lifts us up from self-recrimination. That makes us still feel we are the heroes of our story.

[Huntsman Spider]

A lot of writers, and Marvel as a whole, disregard Frontline for very good reason, namely that it's completely impossible to pass off Tony Stark/Iron Man as any kind of hero after that revelation at the end. Nobody wants to go and relitigate the original Civil War, but even semi-realistically speaking, a lot of the heroes, or "heroes," that fought each other should barely be on cooperating terms, much less be friends again, because too many lines were crossed by the pro-registration forces, who were written more as fascists enforcing corrupt and unjust laws simply because "it's the law," opportunists taking advantage of the schism in the superhero community to further enrich and empower themselves, or even both. Granted, Tony did ultimately pay a price for his actions insofar as chickens coming home to roost in a big way with World War Hulk and Secret Invasion, both of which stemmed from preemptive actions he took with the Illuminati that backfired horribly and resulted in him being kicked out of power and supplanted by an outright supervillain in Norman Osborn.

Osborn, of course, spared no expense or opportunity to use his misbegotten power to reward himself and his allies and punish those who would oppose him, which ultimately forced Tony to wipe his entire brain clean and then "reboot" it with a pre-Extremis backup. Then came Osborn's attempted Siege of Asgard, which forced everyone to come together to stop him and in the process bury the hatchet, except even if Osborn was a greater evil, in that he was acknowledged both in-universe and in real life as evil, that shouldn't have completely eclipsed the actions of Tony and those that sided with him during the original Civil War. Those actions resulted in blatant violations of the civil, constitutional, and human rights of fellow heroes, up to the point of an outright killing in the case of Bill Foster/Goliath, at the hands of a clone of Thor created by Tony with help from Reed Richards and Hank Pym (the latter of whom turned out to be a Skrull infiltrator) to enforce the SHRA. That shouldn't have been forgiven or brushed aside so easily or so quickly, and it was telling to me that when someone did try to hold Tony (technically the Avengers as a whole, but especially Tony) accountable for that whole atrocity that was the original Civil War, that someone was cast as a crazed villain.

[jackolover]

Yes, the arguments are there for accountability for wrong doing. A coroner would certainly hold everyone involved culpable, Super Heroes and government for starting the Civil War. I don’t think the government can be immune from what happened in Civil War. They created a situation that provoked a response from super humans. You don’t poke a bear with a stick.

I always felt there was no legitimate reason for the government to crack-down on super humans. The whole reason Civil War started was because Skrulls released super villains out in the community.

[SuperiorIronman]

Civil War as a comic always reads better on its own. It's goofy and nonsensical as it comes down to art and some motivations but all and all, that's comics. There are some things with the nature of the story engine that we have to forgive outright. That being said it's a politically charged story that doesn't quite know how to handle its own message and narrative but that's a post for another day.

It's the spin-offs and every bodies bizarre fascination with crapping on Tony Stark at the time instead of being competent writers and that bogs the whole thing down. Civil War actually suffers as a narrative because of incompetent creative team not knowing how, or being able to make the narrative work, and instead constantly resorting to fascism in order to create a villain for a story that should not have a villain.

Not to mention the inconsistencies from the spin-offs to what was actually happening in Civil War, and as a result you should disregard Frontline.

[Huntsman Spider]

Yes, the arguments are there for accountability for wrong doing. A coroner would certainly hold everyone involved culpable, Super Heroes and government for starting the Civil War. I don’t think the government can be immune from what happened in Civil War. They created a situation that provoked a response from super humans. You don’t poke a bear with a stick.

I always felt there was no legitimate reason for the government to crack-down on super humans. The whole reason Civil War started was because Skrulls released super villains out in the community.

Of course not. The government, represented by Maria Hill, started from the position of arresting anyone who so much as raised logical and reasonable objections to being ordered to hunt down any heroes that wouldn't comply with the SHRA, even if that person was Captain America himself. There was hardly any way it wasn't going to turn out bad if that was the starting point.

Civil War as a comic always reads better on its own. It's goofy and nonsensical as it comes down to art and some motivations but all and all, that's comics. There are some things with the nature of the story engine that we have to forgive outright. That being said it's a politically charged story that doesn't quite know how to handle its own message and narrative but that's a post for another day.

It's the spin-offs and every bodies bizarre fascination with crapping on Tony Stark at the time instead of being competent writers and that bogs the whole thing down. Civil War actually suffers as a narrative because of incompetent creative team not knowing how, or being able to make the narrative work, and instead constantly resorting to fascism in order to create a villain for a story that should not have a villain.

Not to mention the inconsistencies from the spin-offs to what was actually happening in Civil War, and as a result you should disregard Frontline.

The problem with Civil War was that it was set in a comic book universe that had spent the last twenty-some years at the time of original publication warning that registration was the first step to outright genocide of superhumans, specifically mutants. What the U.S. government did and would go on to do to mutants in the X-Men comics, which were and are still part of the Marvel Universe as we know it, should've precluded any talk of registration being a good thing or even a necessary evil.

[jackolover]

I just finished reading Marvel's Civil War. First of all, I can't believe Captain America surrendered the way he did, right as he was finally winning, but even worse. I find out in, Civil War Frontline #11 Tony Stark had controlled, Norman Osborne with nanites. To force him to kill an Atlanian. To boost Stark Industries stocks, and pressure hero's to register against a common enemy, the Atlanians. FYI I will now, and forever hate Tony Stark, and Reed Richards. Reed for the negitive zone prison, 42. My question is, does anyone ever find out what Stark did, besides Ben Ulrich, and the other reporter? If so which comic or comics, is he found out?

Just getting back to Captain America’s surrender, Steve Rogers didn’t do anything wrong to cause Civil War. He was just an Avenger, doing the super hero thing when the New Warriors had a disastrous confrontation with super villains. (And as it turns out a corporation called Damage Control, had increased the powers of Nitro so they caused the Civil War, not the super humans). Steve Rogers was hounded into being defensive a stance he didn’t like to take, and that’s why Rogers surrendered, because Rogers was unable to act with his normal, self-assuredness, and he recognised this at the end.

[Agent Z]

Of course not. The government, represented by Maria Hill, started from the position of arresting anyone who so much as raised logical and reasonable objections to being ordered to hunt down any heroes that wouldn't comply with the SHRA, even if that person was Captain America himself. There was hardly any way it wasn't going to turn out bad if that was the starting point.



The problem with Civil War was that it was set in a comic book universe that had spent the last twenty-some years at the time of original publication warning that registration was the first step to outright genocide of superhumans, specifically mutants. What the U.S. government did and would go on to do to mutants in the X-Men comics, which were and are still part of the Marvel Universe as we know it, should've precluded any talk of registration being a good thing or even a necessary evil.

Registration of superhumans and registration of vigilantes are two different things and the problem with Civil War was that the writers didn't know this. Remember, the SHRA applied to all superheroes, both the ones with powers and the ones without them. Saying crimefighters need to be properly trained and licensed is far and away from locking someone up because they are born differently.

[Frontier]

Registration of superhumans and registration of vigilantes are two different things and the problem with Civil War was that the writers didn't know this. Remember, the SHRA applied to all superheroes, both the ones with powers and the ones without them. Saying crimefighters need to be properly trained and licensed is far and away from locking someone up because they are born differently.

Didn't the SHRA ultimately develop into a law against all people with superpowers, not just the heroes and vigilante's? You couldn't do anything with your powers or abilities without the government coming in.

That's how a lot of kids were conscripted into the Initiative.

[MichaelC]

It didn't "develop" into anything, it just was randomly different things in different books. Hell, even side elements like SHIELD changed constantly. In some books SHIELD was an international organization controlled by the United Nations. In others it was an American agency. There was zero consistency to anything. You just have to treat the whole thing as What If, because nothing makes sense otherwise.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Civil War, like most Marvel events, sucks.

In particular, Civil War is just a patented Mark Millar exercise in shockplotting and characters acting out of character in order for the story to move from point A to point B.

Many Marvel events since then, like Secret Empire and Civil War II, have aped the template to equally dismal results and have to be glossed over or forgotten entirely by future writers in order for the Marvel Universe and the relationships between the characters to continue to function.

[Alan2099]

It didn't "develop" into anything, it just was randomly different things in different books. Hell, even side elements like SHIELD changed constantly. In some books SHIELD was an international organization controlled by the United Nations. In others it was an American agency. There was zero consistency to anything. You just have to treat the whole thing as What If, because nothing makes sense otherwise.

Heck, some characters were on different sides depending on what book you read.