Pick A Direction: Tim Drake

[Timothy Hunter]

This is a companion piece to the thread, "Pick a Direction: Nightwing". I liked the concept of that thread, so I decided to RIP of that poster's idea, but instead this thread involves around Tim Drake!

Where would you take him as a character?
I'll poste my ideas for the direction of the character later on.

[Talon1load]

They talked about bringing Arkham Knight into the DCU proper, is make it be Tim Drake. Gives him a new direction but it’s an identity borrowed from Jason just like Red Robin was. I like the symmetry there.

[Zaresh]

This is a companion piece to the thread, "Pick a Direction: Nightwing". I liked the concept of that thread, so I decided to RIP of that poster's idea, but instead this thread involves around Tim Drake!

Where would you take him as a character?
I'll poster later?

Three core ideas:

-Tim is a teenager. A young adult at most, in introspective, analytical, curious one. But he's still varely a teenager: keep him grounded, street level, or at least, mostly close to what we get to deal with in our life, even if you throw in supernatural, sci fi or fantasy concept. Putting him in college, or in a similar setting, is the best idea, imho. A road trip could be cool, too, now that I think about it. But it works better in a location. Mystery and adventure are his genres, I would say, as far as I know. Better than say, action. He's a thinker, not as much a brawner: show how he works as a thinker then.

-Don't make him go through a big epic out of the blue. Stay simple and clean and then build it towards a bigger picture. He's a rather archetypical young character, and the narrative of the Hero's Journey usually works perfectly with that kind of main characters. From small to a bigger plot, or you can even stay telling small stories, much like with some classic mystery novel main characters who tend to be serialized case of the book.

-As far as I've seen, he works better when he has a supporting character or shares the main spot in a story. So give him a buddy or a very active and present supporting cast. Then, you can also leave him alone if you want to put him on edge, because being left alone works too in those situations. Also, give him new villains that are more fitted for his own traits as a character.

And as with everything, put someone who knows how to write the actual genre and voice you're aiming for the character. You want mystery and suspense? Hire someone who knows how to write that genre well. You want to write teenage drama? Same, look for the right writer. You want him to sound smart? Hire someone who knows how to write smart characters without resorting to telling the reader how smart the character is.

I mean, finding success is hard to reach, and as much as you can prepare a project for being successful, it may not work in the end. But at least, looking for a sound base to start from is always good, I think.

Edit: Oh! Also, give him something impactful or eyecatching that will make the readers interested from the starting point. I mean, you can have the best product there, but you also need to get the audience catched, curious about the story, from day one, or even from before. I don't know: a big name in the creative team, or maybe giving Tim some initial disadvantage, like being unable to move because... I don't know: think of "Rear Window". Of start in media res and then work backwards. Or make him meet some other unexpected big character that puts him in some trouble, or something.

[byrd156]

They talked about bringing Arkham Knight into the DCU proper, is make it be Tim Drake. Gives him a new direction but it’s an identity borrowed from Jason just like Red Robin was. I like the symmetry there.

Why would he take this identity though?

[Timothy Hunter]

They talked about bringing Arkham Knight into the DCU proper, is make it be Tim Drake. Gives him a new direction but it’s an identity borrowed from Jason just like Red Robin was. I like the symmetry there.

I feel that the Arkham Knight moniker really only works for the Arkham franchise of games. A character helming that title simply wouldn't make sense in the DC Comics Universe, unless the stories that would be told with said character would only be located in Arkham Asylum, which would be severely limiting.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I rather Tim move forward than back so I'm fond of him finally going to college. That's a good way to bring back his everyman status without feeling like a rethread. Plus College is easier to resolve than High School because it's not as "neccesary" . It's more acceptable to transition from college to something else or take a gap year etc so if other writers don't want a deal with it they could just write it away.

The goal is to have him transition from Red Robin to something new- what that is I don't know yet. I was a fan of Grayson and thought it gave Dick a real sense of purpose that I felt he lacked before. So I thought about doing something similar with Tim because he feels like the character adrift now.

I liked Godlike13's idea of teaming up Tim and Detective Chimp. While Ascended's idea of making Tim a cop is risky but interesting.

[Godlike13]

Ya, Chimp and Drake Detective Agency.

[Jackalope89]

This is a companion piece to the thread, "Pick a Direction: Nightwing". I liked the concept of that thread, so I decided to RIP of that poster's idea, but instead this thread involves around Tim Drake!

Where would you take him as a character?
I'll poste my ideas for the direction of the character later on.

Apparently, they want him to go back to his mid-teens, ditch being Red Robin for being Robin again (who thought that was a good idea?), and ditch Steph. For, "reasons".

Me? Like Dick has Nightwing (and Grayson, though I never read it), Jason has Red Hood, let Tim have Red Robin with his base in the basement of a certain chain of family restaurants. Build him up from there. Dick had the Fab 5 and New Teen Titans (despite certain heads at DC doing their best to get rid of it). Jason had Scarlet and the Outlaws. Tim... Yeah. Even Damian has Super Sons.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I was gonna have him take over another mantle. I was interested in him being the Question or the Sandman but I got interested in him being Nightmaster (that's the mantle Chimp took up in Justice League Dark).

Granted I don't think I want him to have real powers in his new mantle. A limited powerset is better.

[Ascended]

Build him up from there. Dick had the Fab 5 and New Teen Titans (despite certain heads at DC doing their best to get rid of it). Jason had Scarlet and the Outlaws. Tim... Yeah. Even Damian has Super Sons.

Tim has Young Justice, and very close friendships with Cassie, Bart, and especially Conner. And there's Steph too, for better or worse. And that's what he's going to be again, the Robin of Young Justice. I'm not fond of the idea, but I suppose this nostalgia direction is better than the mismanagement Tim's gotten lately.

Anyway, I've talked about my idea (which Mr. Kenway already mentioned) of making Tim a GCPD detective. I think it solves a lot of problems with Tim, his lack of direction, the number of people in the Cave, and it opens up new narrative options for Gotham. I'd rather see Tim be a recurring "civilian" supporting character in all the Bat books (like Oracle used to be; a hero but not the spandex kind with a strong presence but not a starring role) than see him wasted like he has been lately.

I also really like the idea of Tim working with Detective Chimp. That's got a really fun, oddball vibe going on and I dig it.

You have to drop the Red Robin name. Whatever else you do, that has to go. It's f*cking wretched.

DC needs to decide what Tim is going to be in a post-Robin landscape. Dick is the son who went off to make his own way, on his own terms. Jason is the son who rebelled, the one who was failed by their father, and in turn failed himself. What's Tim?

[king81992]

I always felt that Tim should get the Flamebird identity.

[dropkickjake]

So the questions with the Robins, IMO, is what makes each one unique and special? How can we differentiate them in a way other than order of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, et c.?

With Tim, the answer for me is that he is has a normal family and is actually normal himself to some degree. Dick's "normal" days were spent in a circus, and he then went on to spend his formative years as Robin (its hard for me to accept him starting at 16, gotta be earlier IMO). Jason is from an *at best* broken home and had a troubled childhood. Damian is the genetically engineered offspring of a supervillainess and Batman, was raised by the League of Assassins, and then became Robin.

Tim, on the other hand, at one point had a mom and a dad. He went to high school. Alone among the Robins, he actually lived a double life.

So WTF was that abandoned? I'd say any take on Tim should include this. He should be the one with a day job/civilian identity. Emphasize his detective skills, and give him back his family and his normal life. This could be worked out in plenty of ways.

-Send him to college and have him continue solo detective work vigilantism. Have his suit *inspired* by the red/black Robin suit (his most unique Robin look). Keep his stories more Sherlock Holmes than gritty brawler. Focus on his civilian identity and the absurdity of his masked life. And, for the love of all things good and holy, call him something else. The Crimson Cardinal would feel very detectivey.

-I also love Ascended's idea of making him a detective. Not a uniformed officer like Dick was, but an actual detective. The age thing might be a problem here, but I'd be okay with him being the youngest cop to ever make detective because of his prodigious talent at detective work. He could even headline a GCPD book like this. Have him work closely with masked vigilantes. Again though, keep his family in the fray and very involved with the stories. You want to use Tim to juxtapose normal life and the sheer insanity and weirdness of the Batman world.

-Or, and this would never happen, just go ahead and make him Robin again. Have him work closely with Batman, live with his family, attend high school, and try to juggle costumed heroics with high school diplomas. Keeping his identity a secret would matter far more with an actual civilian life. Damian works better with Dick anyway, so give him the Flamebird title (Better is Hawkfire these days?).

By the by, I remember someone on the old boards back in the day proposing a civilian-life-plot of geeky Tim becoming his high school's starting quarterback. Which, IMO, would work wonderfully if he beat out a far more popular and more athletic kid by being a smarter/game manager style qb.

[Ascended]

Tim, on the other hand, at one point had a mom and a dad. He went to high school. Alone among the Robins, he actually lived a double life.

He was indeed the Everyman. And it was a pretty interesting, unique role too. I miss that.

The Crimson Cardinal would feel very detectivey.

Ohhhh, I LIKE it! Very pulp-y, which is fitting. I think Tim should have a original name like that. Granted, both Dick and Jason adopted pre-existing mantles, but Tim's already done that with Red Robin and I feel like he should forge his own name. He *could* become the new Sandman or Dr. Mid-Nite or the new (heroic) Cluemaster, or whatever the hell you like, but I much prefer the idea of Tim making a new name for himself. Back in the day during Dixon's run, Tim's car was called the Redbird and I always thought that could be a good name for him once he outgrew "Robin."

-I also love Ascended's idea of making him a detective.You want to use Tim to juxtapose normal life and the sheer insanity and weirdness of the Batman world.

Yes! That's exactly it, Tim's the Everyman of the Bat-Clan, and making him a detective puts him in that "everyman" kind of role but leaves him connected to the family business of crime fighting. And Tim's always been a great detective, it was one of his defining traits back in the day. He wasn't the hyper genius Tynion wrote, but Tim was the best detective of the Robins.

-Or, and this would never happen, just go ahead and make him Robin again. Have him work closely with Batman, live with his family, attend high school, and try to juggle costumed heroics with high school diplomas. Keeping his identity a secret would matter far more with an actual civilian life. Damian works better with Dick anyway, so give him the Flamebird title (Better is Hawkfire these days?).

Last I knew, Bette was still using Hawkfire. Or rather, she planned to once she graduated from West Point and resumed vigilante work. So "Flamebird" is technically available. But I'd think if either Tim or Damian were to take Flamebird, it'd be Tim. Damian views "Robin" as his birthright. He's not going to abandon that, even if he's at odds with Bruce, in favor of a name held by a D-list vigilante and tied to the religion of a long-dead world. Tim doesn't have any reason to take Flamebird either, but he doesn't view "Robin" as his inheritance.

[Ascended]

Hey, here's a stupid idea that has nothing to do with the conversation. Let Tim learn magic. Maybe that can be the thing that sets him apart from the rest of the Bats. He's a smart kid, maybe he's also got the spirit it takes to cast a few spells. Maybe Tim's role could be as the urban mage of Gotham. Nothing too powerful, no Fate level magics, but more of a Constantine type of level. I mean, sure, we got Duke doing the whole "superhuman of Gotham" thing, and that's his unique role now (which is a great idea I totally support) but Tim using magic would be different enough to not step on Duke's new role. I think. Maybe. Right?

Oh, wait! Here's an even stupider idea! You know Jack Hawksmoor, the king of cities from WildStorm? Make Tim the City King of earth-1 (or whatever we're calling the main earth now).

[josai21]

Hey, here's a stupid idea that has nothing to do with the conversation. Let Tim learn magic. Maybe that can be the thing that sets him apart from the rest of the Bats. He's a smart kid, maybe he's also got the spirit it takes to cast a few spells. Maybe Tim's role could be as the urban mage of Gotham. Nothing too powerful, no Fate level magics, but more of a Constantine type of level. I mean, sure, we got Duke doing the whole "superhuman of Gotham" thing, and that's his unique role now (which is a great idea I totally support) but Tim using magic would be different enough to not step on Duke's new role. I think. Maybe. Right?

Oh, wait! Here's an even stupider idea! You know Jack Hawksmoor, the king of cities from WildStorm? Make Tim the City King of earth-1 (or whatever we're calling the main earth now).

I actually could be really down with Mage!Tim.