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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I was very happy with rebirth because instead of rebooting or retcon they generally would focus on something else. I'm confused I thought Diana flew in rebirth.
    Appearently she doesn't in snyder's world. Yet she flies in other titles. What is the point in depowering her yet talk about how she is s big powerhouse? I'm tired of thesewriters giving her the short end of the stick.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    Appearently she doesn't in snyder's world. Yet she flies in other titles. What is the point in depowering her yet talk about how she is s big powerhouse? I'm tired of thesewriters giving her the short end of the stick.
    This is why I think she needs her own editor. I'm glad she is getting better treatment in her own comic. Sadly Synder and many others have caused Diana's comics to suffer. There is retcon, reboot. There is nonsense. I do wish Diana had her own editor.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    This is why I think she needs her own editor. I'm glad she is getting better treatment in her own comic. Sadly Synder and many others have caused Diana's comics to suffer. There is retcon, reboot. There is nonsense. I do wish Diana had her own editor.
    Why can''t she have her own editor? What can be done about it?

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    Why can''t she have her own editor? What can be done about it?
    Because she is so small. She is with Batman's editorial office. Unless she grows to the point DC feels they need to add another book in the main line there is no way DC will right now add another book. The reason is her numbers. However, at least her numbers at better.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    Yeah, Cheetah's portrayal in Justice League has been a bit disappointing. Granted she killed Poseidon but that was only after her claws were tainted with the Tear of Extinction. She already has the power of a god so she should have been able to kill Poseidon without the Tear's help. Plus it all happened so quick. It's almost like Snyder felt forced to use a Wonder Woman villain in his run and is just dealing with it. That being said, at least he's using one of Diana's original rogues instead of using a public domain character like Tynion is doing with Hecate and Circe.
    To be fair to Tynion, Wonder Woman has first dibs on all the best and most well-known public domain characters (except possibly Robin Hood and King Arthur), and if you want to go high-magical and high-fantasy and horror with Wonder Woman, then Circe, Hecate, Hermes, Persephone, Medusa, the Furies, and so on is what you want.

    The trouble isn't really in using the public domain characters anyway. I'm not even sure they're overused. The trouble is rather that they have been used based on current pop-culture understanding of them, and without trying to dig deeper into them. Pérez dug deep into their mythical status and stories, and used them well, but I think most later writers took the wrong lessons in how the Olympians should be used from him, even Rucka.

    Wilson however seems to take a different direction with the Olympians, and from what I can understand from having studied them more closely. Too early to tell how well she will succeed, but so far I'm optimistic.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Because she is so small. She is with Batman's editorial office. Unless she grows to the point DC feels they need to add another book in the main line there is no way DC will right now add another book. The reason is her numbers. However, at least her numbers at better.
    But they don't get bigger sales by making a mess with her verse, with all the rebooting and inconsistencies. They should know that by now.

  7. #22
    Amazing Member RudHao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Because she is so small. She is with Batman's editorial office. Unless she grows to the point DC feels they need to add another book in the main line there is no way DC will right now add another book. The reason is her numbers. However, at least her numbers at better.
    Why?

    Even if she cant have her own editor why is she with Bats editors.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for characters like Wonder Woman or Aquaman or Flash to be like under a "Justice League Editorial office" or something like that?

    How many "Editorial offices" does DC even have that the best place they can put her in Is the bat group?

  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RudHao View Post
    Why?

    Even if she cant have her own editor why is she with Bats editors.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for characters like Wonder Woman or Aquaman or Flash to be like under a "Justice League Editorial office" or something like that?

    How many "Editorial offices" does DC even have that the best place they can put her in Is the bat group?
    A lot of this comes down to Kremlology (DCology?), but from what I understand, DC has become organised around two main editorial offices: one oriented around Batman, one around Superman, with three levels under publisher DiDio: group editors, editors, and assistant editors. (I think I've also heard about line editors, but I'm not sure how they fit into this.)

    The reason Wonder Woman falls under the Batman office is apparently because that when Rebirth came around, one of the demands that Greg Rucka placed was that he would not work under Eddie Berganza.

    So think of the DC structure not so much as perfect groupings of titles, but as something that has evolved during decades, in reaction to changing workloads, personal conflicts, office dramas, familiarity with titles and characters, plain inertia, and so on.

    To be frank, I don't think it really matters in which group a given title falls under on how well it will be managed. It's more important that the editors knows the characters they work with, and get good writers and artists. What can be problematic is when the same character has important roles under different editors, especially editorial groups. Right now JL Dark is edited by group Marie Javins, Rebecca Taylor, and assistant Andrew Marino, while the WW title is edited by Jamie Rich, Chris Conroy, and Dave Wielgosz. I hope DC has set up good lines of communication to handle this, so Tynion and Wilson doesn't step on each other's toes.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    To be fair to Tynion, Wonder Woman has first dibs on all the best and most well-known public domain characters (except possibly Robin Hood and King Arthur), and if you want to go high-magical and high-fantasy and horror with Wonder Woman, then Circe, Hecate, Hermes, Persephone, Medusa, the Furies, and so on is what you want.

    The trouble isn't really in using the public domain characters anyway. I'm not even sure they're overused. The trouble is rather that they have been used based on current pop-culture understanding of them, and without trying to dig deeper into them. Pérez dug deep into their mythical status and stories, and used them well, but I think most later writers took the wrong lessons in how the Olympians should be used from him, even Rucka.

    Wilson however seems to take a different direction with the Olympians, and from what I can understand from having studied them more closely. Too early to tell how well she will succeed, but so far I'm optimistic.


    But Wonder Woman has non-public domain mystical villains such as the Queen of Fables, Dark Angel, and the White Magician. Why DC keeps pushing these hand me downs from public domain instead of their own original characters is beyond me.
    Currently(or soon to be) Reading: Alan Scott: Green Lantern, Batman/Superman: World's Finest, Fire & Ice: Welcome to Smallville, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Jay Garrick: The Flash, Justice Society of America, Power Girl, Superman, Shazam, Titans, Wesley Dodds: Sandman, Wonder Woman, & World's Finest: Teen Titans.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    But Wonder Woman has non-public domain mystical villains such as the Queen of Fables, Dark Angel, and the White Magician. Why DC keeps pushing these hand me downs from public domain instead of their own original characters is beyond me.
    I'd rather call characters like Ares and Circe thrift shop finds than hand me downs.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    Frankly its because Wonder Woman is the weakest of the trio. Whether this is a cyclical problem (shes not selling/lets not develop her/whys she not selling?/well lets not develop her) or wether its a core character issue I dont know.

    I suspect if it wasnt for her historic status (first major female superhero, femenist icon etc) they'd of retired her.

    What they need to do imo is sit down and hash out a core set of WW rules and stick with them. Doesnt have to necessarily focus on characterisation or history but certainly on origin/powerset etc.

  12. #27
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlight25 View Post
    But they don't get bigger sales by making a mess with her verse, with all the rebooting and inconsistencies. They should know that by now.
    To be honest, I don't follow WW anymore. But that's because I don't follow any comics anymore other than a few limited out of main continuity titles like WW '77. The reason is specifically the reboots. What's the point of reading a story when, the next time you turn around, it officially didn't happen?

    In my opinion, these %^% reboots cause a temporary sales boost (if they even do that anymore) but hurt sales in the long run because people just don't care anymore when the character and continuity they cared about is gone.
    Power with Girl is better.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Frankly its because Wonder Woman is the weakest of the trio. Whether this is a cyclical problem (shes not selling/lets not develop her/whys she not selling?/well lets not develop her) or wether its a core character issue I dont know.

    I suspect if it wasnt for her historic status (first major female superhero, femenist icon etc) they'd of retired her.

    What they need to do imo is sit down and hash out a core set of WW rules and stick with them. Doesnt have to necessarily focus on characterisation or history but certainly on origin/powerset etc.
    That's because they aren't consistent. Always changing stuff. WW has had successful runs. Also she has a hit tv show, hit animated film. And is currently the biggest hit in the DCEU. On top of having sold millions in merchandise throughout the years. So they should stop and think. Why she can sell well in other formats but doesn't sell as much as the other 2 in comics. It's because comics are a different demographic, and the inconsistencies they always have around her verse don't help her to establish a following as solid as the other 2. They are the ones to blame for that.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Frankly its because Wonder Woman is the weakest of the trio. Whether this is a cyclical problem (shes not selling/lets not develop her/whys she not selling?/well lets not develop her) or wether its a core character issue I dont know.

    I suspect if it wasnt for her historic status (first major female superhero, femenist icon etc) they'd of retired her.

    What they need to do imo is sit down and hash out a core set of WW rules and stick with them. Doesnt have to necessarily focus on characterisation or history but certainly on origin/powerset etc.
    I don't think sales are the problem, Orlando was a fill in writer that wrote Wonder Woman so well his issues sold in the 50,000 range. That was probably due to word of mouth, he got excellent reviews everywhere and may have brought some lapsed fans back to the title who had been fed up with Robinson and Jason.

    The problem is some important writers are intentionally nerfing Wonder Woman, it's not just Snyder. I think Johns is responsible for the DCEU version of Wonder Woman being unable to fly and her horrible showing against Superman in Justice League.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I don't think sales are the problem, Orlando was a fill in writer that wrote Wonder Woman so well his issues sold in the 50,000 range. That was probably due to word of mouth, he got excellent reviews everywhere and may have brought some lapsed fans back to the title who had been fed up with Robinson and Jason.

    The problem is some important writers are intentionally nerfing Wonder Woman, it's not just Snyder. I think Johns is responsible for the DCEU version of Wonder Woman being unable to fly and her horrible showing against Superman in Justice League.
    This. I'm tired of her always getting the short end of the stick. Why don't they go ask fans of hulk, superman, etc if fans would like to see them nerfed.If they are going to do that. At least stop saying she still is a big powerhouse, if then you never show it and always portray her as middle of the road at best.

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