You just got STUNG!: The Wasp Appreciation

[Digifiend]

Yes, Bobbi outright says so.

Bobbi: "Wait, you're Hank's kid? With who?"

Nadia: "My mother was Maria Pym"

Bobbi: "Maria? Oh my God, I only met Maria a few times, but I've known your Dad since... before superhero stuff even. We worked on a government project together"

So, yes, Mockingbird knew Hank before he was Ant-Man.

[JoeWithoutFear]

Nobody makes a damn about it in other countries.

Americans are silly.

lol! As much as I'm probably supposed to be offended by that, I think you're probably right!!

You know what I want to see? An actual female leader character from Marvel.

Something like Janet, or Monica Rambeau. The handling of Carol proves that many Marvel creators now have no idea how to do it. I want to see the sort of Sunspot transformation these past few years, on a female character.

Doesn't the Marvel universe currently have a bunch of females in lead roles? Maria Hill leads SHIELD, Storm leads a group of XMen, Jean Grey leads the other, Medusa leads Inhumans, etc... As for Sunspot, maybe you mean you're looking for a female character who doesn't lead from the field??? Is that a good thing? =)

[Digifiend]

Storm leads a group of XMen, Jean Grey leads the other,

This is wrong. Presently, Storm and Jean are on the same team. After IVX when the Blue and Gold teams are formed, Storm will pass leadership of her team to Kitty Pryde. Jean takes over Blue team at the same time.

[Wiccan]

@Wiccan

We simply have different philosophies on what it means to be progressive. I'll try to explain mine a little better but please understand I am not trying to convince you or change your mind, merely state my perspective. The idea of searching out female scientists because there don't seem to be many achieving greatness is not any kind of achievement I would be proud of. It's like if you view different demographics as "teams" and your specific team comes in 10th place but instead of trying to do better next time, you put your effort towards a big rally and loudly chant "We're #10! We're #10!" Personally, I would be embarrassed if someone tried to pat me on the head and say my 10th place finish was just as good as 1st. On the other hand, letting any scientist, *regardless* of their demographics, make a name for themselves in the scientific community, is what I would consider progress.

As it is, the characters come off like they care more about making women look good at science than actually having someone *be* good at science. Like, what is Nadia's practical reason for seeking them out? If they are not the best scientists in the world, but merely the best *female* scientists, what does that achieve? They blame the tests and the people involved and imply that they must be inherently sexist. It's like when someone does poorly at video games and blames the controller, or when a politician tries to say an election is "rigged." =P To me, it makes them look worse, not better.

You mentioned the Marvel universe as if these trends are not reflected in real life but are only the result of a male-dominated fiction. But real life reflects the same trends. In general, women are smarter. In general, men are the most severely low in IQ. But, they also happen to be the most severely high. Since jobs and recognition are (ideally) awarded via merit, it makes sense that men will typically dominate those positions which demand higher IQ like those in the scientific fields.

Now, keep in mind, I didn't bring up gender and science - it's not something I wanted to talk about on a comic book forum. But the comic book brought it up. So, we can assume the writers of the book wanted to start people thinking about gender and science and we're doing that here. But if we think for ourselves, and try to understand the reality of the situation - not just what makes for an uplifting fiction, then the reality of the discussion may be unpleasant. But that doesn't mean reality is broken - reality is often unpleasant. But it maybe means that we don't need to be upset by it. After all, like I said, the data illustrates that women are, in general, smarter! And that men are, in general, the most stupid! =P But they also happen to be the sharpest.

These results have been found time and again...

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So, again, it seems regressive to me to have the characters working in that direction. But, it's just a difference in our philosophies, right? And us progressives rarely agree completely on the path to a more enlightened tomorrow, right? =)



It's cool, to each their own!

I don't think it was supposed to be something so... political, if that's a good term for this topic. The book is supposed to be fun and lighthearted. Nadia is a young scientist girls who wants to know other scientist girls and show that they can be just as good as the others, because yeah, many people think they don't, whether or not IQ scores say otherwise. She's a optmistic girl who never really had a normal life and want to make friends and do something she loves and is proud of with people like her, but she never had the chance and feels like they don't have the visibility they should. She's not saying female scientists are better, as she has stated both in this issue and on her other appearances, she's fascinated by her father's work and actually wants to follow his footsteps. And she's not saying they're worst either, she thinks they just doesn't have many opportunities of showing otherwise.

[JoeWithoutFear]

@Wiccan

I can dig it. And it is cool how she looks up to her dad. Though I have a feeling eventually there will be this big revelation where she is told all these horrible things about her father and forever curses his name!! =P But again, if it's not supposed to be divisive, why literally name her organization "G.I.R.L."? Isn't that alienating to, say, a little boy who wants to get into this comic? And if you don't think so, try to imagine if this was a story about a boy scientist and he named his organization "M.A.L.E." or something. You don't think there would be outrage? If one isn't divisive or reminiscent of segregation, why would the other one be? Bottom line: signal boosting one gender doesn't have to come at the exclusion of the other. This reminds me of Ghostbusters where they said "safety lights are for dudes." It's like, come on, we can show the virtues of one gender without excluding the other. You can say I'm reading too much into it, but again, the name of her science group is literally a binary gender signifier... I didn't write that, the book did.

This is wrong. Presently, Storm and Jean are on the same team. After IVX when the Blue and Gold teams are formed, Storm will pass leadership of her team to Kitty Pryde. Jean takes over Blue team at the same time.

I was indeed thinking of the upcoming Blue and Gold teams and it slipped my mind that Kitty was leading instead of Storm. Still, Kitty's female too, right? =)

[Digifiend]

Yeah, it doesn't invalidate your point.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

Yes, Bobbi outright says so.

Bobbi: "Wait, you're Hank's kid? With who?"

Nadia: "My mother was Maria Pym"

Bobbi: "Maria? Oh my God, I only met Maria a few times, but I've known your Dad since... before superhero stuff even. We worked on a government project together"

So, yes, Mockingbird knew Hank before he was Ant-Man.

It makes no sense. Bobbi doesn't know Maria at all in West Coast Avengers. At that time she as the new Avenger recruit needed to be filled in on the history of Hank and Maria. I mean I could let it slide since it is all "ancient history" kids like me shouldn't know, but Marvel just printed the omnibus this year! It is like they don't even read the most readily available stuff of their own.

[Michael Watkins]

@Wiccan

I can dig it. And it is cool how she looks up to her dad. Though I have a feeling eventually there will be this big revelation where she is told all these horrible things about her father and forever curses his name!! =P But again, if it's not supposed to be divisive, why literally name her organization "G.I.R.L."? Isn't that alienating to, say, a little boy who wants to get into this comic? And if you don't think so, try to imagine if this was a story about a boy scientist and he named his organization "M.A.L.E." or something. You don't think there would be outrage? If one isn't divisive or reminiscent of segregation, why would the other one be? Bottom line: signal boosting one gender doesn't have to come at the exclusion of the other. This reminds me of Ghostbusters where they said "safety lights are for dudes." It's like, come on, we can show the virtues of one gender without excluding the other. You can say I'm reading too much into it, but again, the name of her science group is literally a binary gender signifier... I didn't write that, the book did.

sure. but you didn't ask if the outrage would be warranted. remember the little rascals?

[Michael Watkins]

It makes no sense. Bobbi doesn't know Maria at all in West Coast Avengers. At that time she as the new Avenger recruit needed to be filled in on the history of Hank and Maria. I mean I could let it slide since it is all "ancient history" kids like me shouldn't know, but Marvel just printed the omnibus this year! It is like they don't even read the most readily available stuff of their own.

like she said, she's only met Maria a few times. she doesn't know Maria's backstory or her history with Pym. neither do most comic book readers.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

like she said, she's only met Maria a few times. she doesn't know Maria's backstory or her history with Pym. neither do most comic book readers.

Ok I am still pretty sure that Hawkeye had to introduce his new bride to everyone. Mockingbird back then was the definition of the new girl. Why this sudden old connection in this book? How does it help at all?

[Mary Jay]

It makes no sense. Bobbi doesn't know Maria at all in West Coast Avengers. At that time she as the new Avenger recruit needed to be filled in on the history of Hank and Maria. I mean I could let it slide since it is all "ancient history" kids like me shouldn't know, but Marvel just printed the omnibus this year! It is like they don't even read the most readily available stuff of their own.

WCA001-1.jpg

WCA001.JPG

You're right. There is no way she knows Maria, or that she had known Hank before Maria died.

Continuity has been flushed down the drain again it would seem.

[Frontier]

Yeah, it's weird. It implies Bobbi was a lot closer to Hank then she actually was (or that she was just pretending not to know him for...reasons).

I mean, I like the idea of it, but it's always weird to just retroactively establish something like that when it has no basis in the comics (other the fact that they're both scientists).

[majormcmeat]

It is like they don't even read the most readily available stuff of their own.

This can't be a surprise.
Who at Marvel besides Al Ewing seems to be familiar with or care about the company's history?

[Ianbarreilles]

This can't be a surprise.
Who at Marvel besides Al Ewing seems to be familiar with or care about the company's history?

Dan slott? He's been pretty good with working with the established history for the most part at least.

[Frontier]

This can't be a surprise.
Who at Marvel besides Al Ewing seems to be familiar with or care about the company's history?

Well, "familiar with" doesn't always equal "care," when you think about it. Ewing's just a good enough writer that he does both.

Only one I can think of, off the top of my head, is Greg Pak maybe? At least he tries to.

Mark Waid as well, generally. And Cullen Bunn.