You just got STUNG!: The Wasp Appreciation

[Captain M]

to play devil's advocate, isn't it a little sad that this is her claim to fame? why was there only one female "qualified" to be a founding Avenger? and I put that in quotes because she joined as a plus-one and was considered to be the weakest member of the team (and that's a quote from one of their enemies).

Well she also led the team for years. That's not forgotten

[Frontier]

to play devil's advocate, isn't it a little sad that this is her claim to fame? why was there only one female "qualified" to be a founding Avenger? and I put that in quotes because she joined as a plus-one and was considered to be the weakest member of the team (and that's a quote from one of their enemies).

I don't know, I've always thought it was a pretty cool thing for her to have on her resume .

I don't see where qualifications come into it since she became a founder by circumstance like the rest did.

[Michael Watkins]

Well she also led the team for years. That's not forgotten

that happened later. and she wasn't considered to be a good leader until after the Siege of Avengers mansion.

[Digifiend]

I don't know, I've always thought it was a pretty cool thing for her to have on her resume .

I don't see where qualifications come into it since she became a founder by circumstance like the rest did.

She was actually a rookie when she joined the team. She only got her powers a few months before Avengers #1!

[CryNotWolf]

Well Janet was a founding Avenger during a time when women were considered by many to still be second-class citizens...so yeah I don't see how being a founding Avenger is "sad". Much like Hank, she's never had a solo so her connection to the Avengers is where we see her 90% of the time.

[Holt]

It's certainly not sad but I also don't see how anything of note is really changed by having her not be the only woman on the first iteration of the team. And that's of course assuming it isn't just revealed that Voyager was manipulating history or something like that.

[Captain M]

It's certainly not sad but I also don't see how anything of note is really changed by having her not be the only woman on the first iteration of the team.

You're on a roll

[Michael Watkins]

Well Janet was a founding Avenger during a time when women were considered by many to still be second-class citizens...so yeah I don't see how being a founding Avenger is "sad". Much like Hank, she's never had a solo so her connection to the Avengers is where we see her 90% of the time.

"sad" in that, even as a founder of something, she was the second class.

[Frontier]

We can mull over how Jan was basically just Hank's sidekick and not all that well written by the time The Avengers were founded, but at the same time I think it's still just as meaningful that she was the first female founder and Avenger when you take into account how much she grew and become such a valued and important member over time.

[Michael Watkins]

No. They let it go when they had him reconcile with Jan in WCA. They let it go when they showed Hank and Jan being close friends by the end of the first volume of the Avengers (before the events that led to Heroes Return). They let it go when they decided to bring Hank and Jan back together as a happy couple in Busiek's run. They let it go by having Hank being a genuinely good person, caring for others more than for himself, setting up a school to help out teens who had been abused by Osborn, etc...

"Let it go" doesn't mean "kill the character so we don't hear from him anymore" or "have his estranged daughter decide not to take his name because".

"Let it go" means to move beyond what happened 35 years ago and show character growth.

sometimes that happens in real life. sometimes it doesn't. what happened was impactful enough that Jan divorced him. what happened was impactful enough that she wouldn't remarry him; when he proposed to her (johns' run). and it was impactful enough that Janet felt the need to tell it to Nadia. the only way to really respect both characters is to have Pym move on, for himself. because he has no right to ask Janet to do so. and it's not like janet is always talking about it. there's usually a reason why that time of Pym's life is touched upon. one of the last was as a personal attack from A.I.STark to Ultronpym. he was a villain being called out as a villain. and it was a retort to Pymtron deciding to verbally shame everyone. they were pointing out his hypocrisy (and vice versa).

[Mary Jay]

sometimes that happens in real life. sometimes it doesn't. what happened was impactful enough that Jan divorced him. what happened was impactful enough that she wouldn't remarry him; when he proposed to her (johns' run). and it was impactful enough that Janet felt the need to tell it to Nadia. the only way to really respect both characters is to have Pym move on, for himself. because he has no right to ask Janet to do so. and it's not like janet is always talking about it. there's usually a reason why that time of Pym's life is touched upon. one of the last was as a personal attack from A.I.STark to Ultronpym. he was a villain being called out as a villain. and it was a retort to Pymtron deciding to verbally shame everyone. they were pointing out his hypocrisy (and vice versa).

Avengers vol3no4.jpg

(from Avengers vol 3 no 3 - Busiek's run)

Avengers continuity was pretty good until Busiek left. Geoff Johns didn't do his homework IMO. Janet had moved on, a long time ago. Moving on doesn't mean forgetting though. She learned to deal with the past and not let it stop her. And that included her relationship with Hank.

Janet didn't feel the need to tell it to Nadia. Nadia overheard two bitches talking about it, and she asked questions. Fair enough, I would say.

(sorry for derailing the thread, Waspies...)

[Michael Watkins]

(from Avengers vol 3 no 3 - Busiek's run)

Avengers continuity was pretty good until Busiek left. Geoff Johns didn't do his homework IMO. Janet had moved on, a long time ago. Moving on doesn't mean forgetting though. She learned to deal with the past and not let it stop her. And that included her relationship with Hank.

Janet didn't feel the need to tell it to Nadia. Nadia overheard two bitches talking about it, and she asked questions. Fair enough, I would say.

(sorry for derailing the thread, Waspies...)

Johns is known for doing his homework. he, generally, takes characters back to their roots. it seemed like a pretty reasonable decision for Jan to make. she didn't say that she hated Pym. she just didn't think being married would be a good idea. and Pym seemed to agree; since he called Jan a bad wife while she lay comatose in the hospital (disassembled). some people are just bad together. seems like growth to have them realize it. what would be out of place is portraying Jan like some lovesick school girl; leaning her head against Hank's arm; after the two of them hadn't been shown to be a couple in a long time. "Hank's still gunshy?" that's kind of sick. if anyone would have reservations, it'd probably be the one who ended the marriage; to begin with.

[CryNotWolf]

Johns is known for doing his homework. he, generally, takes characters back to their roots. it seemed like a pretty reasonable decision for Jan to make. she didn't say that she hated Pym. she just didn't think being married would be a good idea. and Pym seemed to agree; since he called Jan a bad wife while she lay comatose in the hospital (disassembled). some people are just bad together. seems like growth to have them realize it. what would be out of place is portraying Jan like some lovesick school girl; leaning her head against Hank's arm; after the two of them hadn't been shown to be a couple in a long time. "Hank's still gunshy?" that's kind of sick. if anyone would have reservations, it'd probably be the one who ended the marriage; to begin with.

Well, she wasn't good to Hank, the way Bendis wrote her. And I believe Disassembled came after Austen's run when Jan cheated on Hank after they got back together. Not to mention nobody will ever say proper characterization is one of Bendis' strengths.

Also praising Johns doing his homework doesn't really make sense with your argument, considering he wrote Hank and Janet in the process of getting back together.

[itspopularnowitsucks]

We can mull over how Jan was basically just Hank's sidekick and not all that well written by the time The Avengers were founded, but at the same time I think it's still just as meaningful that she was the first female founder and Avenger when you take into account how much she grew and become such a valued and important member over time.

Don't forget that they had rotating chairmanship from the very very beginning of the organization, and Wasp was shown taking the chair during meetings.

[Michael Watkins]

Well, she wasn't good to Hank, the way Bendis wrote her. And I believe Disassembled came after Austen's run when Jan cheated on Hank after they got back together. Not to mention nobody will ever say proper characterization is one of Bendis' strengths.

Also praising Johns doing his homework doesn't really make sense with your argument, considering he wrote Hank and Janet in the process of getting back together.

She said that she would not remarry him.