Vericona Cale is a villan again

[AmiMizuno]

One of the arcs has Cale being a villain

you asked Wonder Woman who her nemesis is, she might just say Veronica Cale—and now Veronica has the powers of the actual god Nemesis under her control! Some of the resurrected Olympians whom Wonder Woman has encountered have changed in unpredictable ways...is there a crack in Nemesis’ armor that Diana can get through? Or will she miss the chance to redeem yet another of her divine brethren?
What do you guys think?

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm never that thrilled with the idea of setting Veronica up as Diana's arch nemesis. I much prefer Cheetah or Circe in that role. But I love her in Rebirth, so I'm more comfortable with the idea than I used to be, and better her than Ares. She went from being a poor man's Priscilla Rich/Lex Luthor fusion and into one of my top 5 WW foes. I'm glad Wilson is using her, because it shows that she is actually paying attention to recent developments. A change in status quo for Themyscira means inevitable stuff being done with Izzy. Or at least, I would hope.

I also hope Dr. Cyber, Dr. Poison, Zara and the Blue Snowman return. Maybe Wilson can continue Veronica being the one to hire and equip Diana's man-made supervillains, leading to the inclusion of Hypnota, and Seeley's take on Eviless/Saturna?

[Vordan]

I’m very interested to see how Wilson writes Cale. I do like the pairing of classic Rogues with Gods. I just hope the classic Rogues don’t end up playing second fiddle to the gods again. With Ares gone from the island Cale might be planning to make another grab at her daughter.

[AmiMizuno]

I'm curious could Cale ever be a good main villain in Diana's own animated movie?

[Fuzzy Mittens]

I'm curious could Cale ever be a good main villain in Diana's own animated movie?

Im honestly not sure she could become a good main villain.
I mean her whole thing is that she is the leader of a company and she resents Wonder Woman for a percieved 'had everything handed to her without having to work for it' and decides this means she has to form a supervillain team to destroy her.
This version would have that whole 'kidnapped by Egg Fu, falls in love with Will Magnus, rules Oolong island' arc.

Then we later get the other Rucka take which gave her the origin of the Baroness more or less.

In the end her goal is to either make Wonder Woman look bad or try to get her daughter back which could be interesting if there was more to what she can do. As it is, she kinda comes off as a Lex Luthor clone and at no time is she really shown to be that intelligent compared to other mad scientist types good or evil in the DC universe. Shes kinda impersonal towards Wonder Woman and her real power is being wealthy enough to hire villains to fight for her, making her more of a modernization of Eviless more than anything else.

I mean, her popping up in an animated movie could certainly happen. But I just don't see Veronica Cale ever really taking the spot of 'Wonder Womans big arch nemesis' I can imagine Veronica thinking that and insisting she was, but compared to Ares, Doctor Psycho, Cheetah, Circe, and even the golden age villain Baroness, Veronica Cale just falls short.

[AmiMizuno]

What does Paula have over Cale?

[Fuzzy Mittens]

What does Paula have over Cale?

Putting aside that she was established to be a genius who created all of the weapons she outfit her minions with from death rays to invisibility packs. And that her minions were people she brainwashed to do her bidding.

The Baroness was a villain explicitly created to serve as a dark counterpart to the Wonder Woman of the era.
Where Diana was a champion of feminism who stood for freeing women of the chains the patriarchy placed on them, Baroness literally put chains on women and mentally conditioned them to be subserviant.
Where Wonder Womans power was based around her intelligence and she used this to better mankind, Paula whose greatest power was her mind used her intellect to try and enslave humanity as she was already enslaved.
Where Diana chose the mantle of Wonder Woman and went out into the world of her own volition, the baroness was forced into her role after a great tragedy, with her child held captive to make her compliant.

The Baroness being defeated, her child saved, and the woman reforming to become one of Wonder Womans greatest allies whose inventions change the world for the better is one of the most fascinating character moments to ever come out of Wonder Woman. Nevermind its the most development a character ever gets in the golden age of comics.

Veronica Cale on the other hand does not really fill that same role.
Shes borrowing elements from Baroness, from Eviless, and from Lex Luthor. But none of it really informs the character or works to reflect anything with Wonder Woman.
And its not entirely the characters fault. The fact is that Wonder Womans been changed so much that its impossible for the Baroness to resonate in the same way as she did back in the day without bringing back alot of those golden age elements that made Baroness a dark mirror of the protagonist.

So on that note you have Veronica Cale.
Shes smart, but not the smartest. She relies on other scientists to do alot of the heavy lifting for her.
Shes not really a great threat to Wonder Woman on her own, shes often getting the likes of Circe to help her because shes simply not capable on her own.
Her motivations in the different continuities have been

1. Shes jealous of Wonder Woman and convinced that Diana had everything handed to her on a silver platter, devotes time and money and resources into trying to destroy Wonder Woman. Not because of any great enenimity towards her or because Wonder Woman is standing in the way of her financial enterprise, but rather because shes annoyed with how popular Wonder Woman is. And actually decides to stop going after Wonder Woman when the press starts harassing Wonder Woman, because that was her entire motive.

2. Her daughter is being held hostage and shes forced to help monsters in order to save her. This is an interesting motivation, though obviously stolen from the Baroness. That said, its not given a chance to really be a thing for very long.

3. She decides she just liked being evil after the daughter things resolved and goes about causing trouble for LOLs

Nothing about Veronica Cale really speaks to modern day Wonder Woman. She doesn't really feel like she was created to serve as a dark counterpart, or a mirror, or as a villain intended to speak to a specific aspect of the character. Instead she just comes off as a character created in an effort to give Wonder Woman her own Lex Luthor and as a replacement for Eviless so they could make a new villainy inc. With the Rebirth run adding elements that hewed closer to the Baroness.

So to sum it up, Veronica Cales motive feels lackluster and poorly thought out.
Her capabilities are pretty minor as shes never shown really achieving anything on the levels of any other comic book scientists.
Shes never mentioned to be that financially well off as bigger rich villains like Lex Luthor or Simon Stagg.

And the only defining trait that makes her stand out from her counterparts is that she is constantly being either enslaved by gods, enslaving gods, making deals with gods, or freeing gods. Which could potentially be an interesting thing to explore in relation to Wonder Womans own religious beliefs. But since that is something DC never touches on and probably will never want to touch on, its more of a quirk.

So long story short, Baroness was a reflection on golden age Wonder Woman.
Veronica Cale is a modernization of older villain ideas with no message of her own.
And big bad needs to be able to say something about the hero their fighting which is something even the Cheetah accomplishes across most iterations.

[WonderScott]

I've never thought of Veronica not being a villain, but I'm open to seeing more of her. I need a few more interesting stories and plots involving her and Wonder Woman's world to add her to the top tier of Diana's foes. My feeling is you can't necessarily always devise a character to be an arch villain. Sometimes they need to grow into the role over time through stories, action, and mining the character for all they are worth.

I like the idea of GWW using Cale alongside the reborn gods, but I hope she has plans for other costumed foes of Diana as well.

[kjn]

Yep, an archvillain in this form of storytelling is nearly always something that is evolved and discovered, partly through consensus over time. So far, I think it's only been Rucka that's been using Veronica Cale as a villain, and that's far from enough. Cheetah and Doctor Psycho have far stronger claims to archvillain status.

One possibility is that Wilson is planning to do more teamups of mythical and "mundane" villains similar to the Cale-Nemesis one. Eris and Doctor Psycho could be one interesting combo, or the Keres for Doctor Poison.

[Vordan]

I'm curious could Cale ever be a good main villain in Diana's own animated movie?

Of course. There has been at least one animated movie that actually improves on the source material: Under the Red Hood, which is a rather terrible comic imo, is one of the GOAT DCAU Movies.. If you don’t find Cale compelling right now, perhaps seeing other interpretations of her might improve your opinion of her. Just getting more of Diana’s villains in other media besides Ares and Cheetah will help get people interested in her villains.

[AmiMizuno]

Not actually should what you mean by Paula couldn’t work in the modern day or the idea. There are still extremist and racist groups. Even if you don’t want to focus on this you can have it be more focus on the occult side. There is often many ways to make cake or any other characters or work.

I wonder if Cale was the movies next villain what is the best way to make her work? Would it be that whole she is the main villain of the movie she is working under someone ?

[Vordan]

Cale can’t fight Diana woman to woman since she doesn’t have powers and isn’t a mad scientist like Lex. So that means she works best in cooperation with another more physical threat for Diana. I liked her partnership with Doctor Cyber. I wouldn’t mind seeing her and Circe team up more in the future.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

I feel like what I said is being misunderstood.

To clarify, I never said that Veronica Cale did not work as a villain, I said she wasn't an 'arch villain' Theres a difference. Shes not so much on the same level as Ares or Circe or Cheetah. So much as shes more on the level of Zara or Minister Blizzard.

Likewise with Baroness, I didn't say she couldn't work as a modern villain, but that she couldn't work as an arch nemesis in the modern day. This is because the thing that made her such a great enemy of Wonder Womans was that she worked as a dark reflection of the hero but since the modern day Wonder Womans resemblence to her golden age counterpart is in name only, that whole facet of what made Baroness a great villain is rendered moot.

[LordUltimus]

I think Cale should form a new Villainy Inc.

"Cale" is an anagram of "Clea", after all.

[AmiMizuno]

I wonder. If we wanted to make her a larger threat why not have her look a bit deeper into the mythical side. For example she finds a dangerous plant or something else. It’s something that can she can use against Diana. Since she is a drug company. Couldn’t she use something that can help more people but if she needs to it can also kill or slower tortures people close to Diana