DCU "must haves" and "let's just not"

[DrNewGod]

Isn't that still a circus?

True. But in name only.

[byrd156]

True. But in name only.

How? They are still performing dangerous stunts under a tent or on a stage. That's still a circus. That's like changing Robotman's profession from an F-1 Racer to stock car racing. It's still the same thing, one is just more popular than the other.

[Killerbee911]

Isn't that still a circus?

Cirque du Soleil. Is a group of acrobat performers/dancers (who occasional has traveling show that might be in tent but just as like to have an event in arena as well )

A Circus has expectations of carnival like atmosphere, tent, clowns, ringmasters,freak show acts, animals(lion,tigers,elephants) etc It is later element animals which many circus leaned on which is making it a dying thing.

Cirque du Soleil has more in common with Broadway show or Icecape show than a old circus. Circus are never going to completely die out so they could always use it but when you can update mythos to fit modern era you should especially when it is a smooth fit like going from Circus to Cirque du Soleil or from Police Chemist to CSI.

[byrd156]

Cirque du Soleil. Is a group of acrobat performers/dancers

A Circus has expectations of carnival like atmosphere, tent, clowns, ringmasters,freak show acts, animals(lion,tigers,elephants) etc It is later element animals which many circus leaned on which is making it a dying thing.

Cirque du Soleil has more in common with Broadway show or Icecape show than a circus. Circus are never going to completely die out so they could always use it but when you can update mythos to fit modern era you should especially when it is a smooth fit like going from Circus to Cirque du Soleil or from Police Chemist to CSI.

I don't really see a difference other than the perception of the entertainment.

[Killerbee911]

I don't really see a difference other than the perception of the entertainment.

Fine I will say it again

Circus-Tents, animals, Large parts of show was Animal performances Short acrobatics performances(15-30 mins) mostly stunts and death defying acts .
Cirque or Contemporary Circus-Theaters/arenas, Only Humans no animals, Longer acrobatic performances(1 hour to 2 hours) more acting and storytelling in performance basically a stage play with acrobats

The reason people suggest the change because they are close enough to where it is a easy switch but they are clear obvious differences.

[byrd156]

Fine I will say it again

Circus-Tents, animals, Large parts of show was Animal performances Short acrobatics performances(15-30 mins) mostly stunts and death defying acts .
Cirque or Contemporary Circus-Theaters/arenas, Only Humans no animals, Longer acrobatic performances(1 hour to 2 hours) more acting and storytelling in performance basically a stage play with acrobats

The reason people suggest the change because they are close enough to where it is a easy switch but they are clear obvious differences.

I understand the literal differences, I'm saying that I don't see the differences figuratively. It's still weird and strange entertainment with death defying stunts and feats. They still serve the same purpose while being similar enough. And if they are similar enough what's the point of changing it?

It's like saying superheroes shouldn't have costumes but still have the goofy powers and outlandish villains. It's a change that is decided by outside perception that changes with the wind. Constantly "modernizing" a concept only dates it even further. It's like reading comics from the early to mid 2000s that reference myspace and dial-up for example. Cirque De Soul is literally created a subgenre of the circus, it's literally still a circus.

My philosophy when it comes to comic change is "if you can tell more stories with that change then without it, go for it." Changing Dick's circus roots to a more "modern" and socially accepted form of the circus doesn't really bring to mind many story opportunities. How would this change effect Dick? How would this change effect the Graysons and their death? Is this change bringing about more storytelling opportunities?

Hell Young Justice did a simple yet very effective change to the circus. They made it bigger and an international powerhouse that traveled the world. The circus is still big in Europe from what I can tell of my brief research into the subject. Getting rid of Haly's Circus or turning it into something else feels wrong. It's like having the Waynes getting shot during a daytime robbery that had nothing to do with them, sure it still keeps the core idea of random acts of violence leading to an 8 year old losing his parents to anonymous crime but loses the iconography and deeper elements to the core of the character. The circus upbringing is the most important element of Dick's character, changing that changes the character in my eyes

[Aahz]

Honestly both Dicks and Bruce origin stories don't make that much sense anymore.

I mean why should a super rich billionaire family go to a cinema in the worst part of the town.

And committing a double murder to extort money from a small circus, seems also little bit extreme.

[byrd156]

Honestly both Dicks and Bruce origin stories don't make that much sense anymore.

I mean why should a super rich billionaire family go to a cinema in the worst part of the town.

And committing a double murder to extort money from a small circus, seems also little bit extreme.

It's almost like the themes and representations are what matters rather than the avenues used by the writers.

[DrNewGod]

Honestly both Dicks and Bruce origin stories don't make that much sense anymore.

I mean why should a super rich billionaire family go to a cinema in the worst part of the town.

And committing a double murder to extort money from a small circus, seems also little bit extreme.

Depending on the specific telling, what became Crime Alley was a nice part of town until the Waynes' murder, after which it began a descent into yuckiness. As for rich people being out and about, slumming still happens.

What doesn't happen a lot is The Circus showing up in every town every summer. As for the murder of the Graysons, people get murdered for a whole lot less.

[thanatoskun]

Drop: Lois Lane and Jon Kent

[Sacred Knight]

Lois Lane is essential. Regardless exactly what relationship one wants her to have with Superman, she has to have A relationship. Its far too classic, far too key. She could only not exist in an alternate take, but even then I personally would never omit her entirely.

[CaptCleghorn]

Lois Lane is essential. Regardless exactly what relationship one wants her to have with Superman, she has to have A relationship. Its far too classic, far too key. She could only not exist in an alternate take, but even then I personally would never omit her entirely.

Lois is an example of someone going against the odds and making her way to be successful in a field dominated by men. Go back to 1938 and the impact is truly appreciated. This is in stark contrast to Clark, who is Superman and must hold himself back making his way as not just a human with all forms of privilege, but a flawed human. the contrast can be powerful especially when it's Clark who is wooing Lois, even though the Superman identity is a part of the triangle.

[manwhohaseverything]

Drop: Lois Lane and Jon Kent

As someone here said Lois is essential. And as for Jon Kent, he might be dropped sooner or later. That is just how it goes,i guess. I have accepted it. It was great while it lasted. Kids book that felt like one. Not some pretensious nonsense.