DCU "must haves" and "let's just not"

[DrNewGod]

So, you've been retained as a consultant by DC. They're going to reboot the DCU (again), but this time It's Going To Stick (they promise)!

What they want from you is a recommendation: what must a restarted DCU feature, and what should it drop?

Now let's not kid ourselves, there are some things that are obvious. Nobody is getting rid of The Biggest Characters and those things closely associated with their brands. Beyond that, what should a DCU include, and just as importantly, what could it do without?

[byrd156]

Everyone MUST have armored costumes with lots of lines.
Everyone MUST be dark and gritty.
Teen Titans MUST die in every story big or small. Superman goes out to buy milk and Red Star explodes when he trips in the supermarket.
The only book that MUST be sold at all times is Harley Quinn.

Everything else is dropped. Period.

[Denirac]

To Me:

Essentially Pre Flashpoint with Damian’s Generation added:
Have ALL generations handled with respect and with Legacy Characters keeping their roles:

The JSA as semi retired
The Justice League as the Biggest Team of Heroes (With Both Batmen (Bruce and Grayson) and Flashes (Barry and Wally) as mainstays alongside Hal, John Stewart, Diana, Sheyara, J’onn and Clark but with a rotating supporting cast- including ALL heroes
The Titans led by Batman (Dick Grayson) Troia, Starfire and Flash (Wally West)
Young Justice led by Red Robin Wonder Girl (Cassie), Kid Flash (Bart Allen) and Superboy (Conner Kent)
The Teen Titans- Damian and Jon’s Generation
The Outsiders including characters like Jason Todd
The Legion in the Future
Batman Beyond in Prime Canon’s Future

[king81992]

Stop killing off the Titans characters.

Do not rehash old storylines. Find new stories to tell with these characters.

Scatter members of the Bat family throughout the DC universe, having everyone in Gotham makes no sense.

Re-establish the Super and Wonder Family.

Do a better job of redeeming villains or pick the right villains to be redeemed.

[Jackalope89]

My first direction?

Not every arc needs to be grimdark, shock value, or angsty.

Stop trying to get rid of Dick's generation!

When taking over for a previous writer, particularly if they had a popular run, you better have a damn good reason for upending things, and shock value is NOT a good reason!

The Fab5 will be in charge of the Titans at Titans Tower, working to help new metahumans learn to harness their abilities safely.
Tim and his generation will be Young Justice at Mount Justice. Going on stealth operations, either at home or world wide.
Damian, Jon, and their new generation of heroes (many of whom actually seem to have familial ties to established heroes) could be the Super Kids (Djinn and Roundhouse being the exceptions so far). More light-hearted in tone. Their base, the underwater one from Super Sons.
Red Hood, Artemis, and other "misfits" are part of the Outlaws/Outsiders. Doing black ops to take down criminal organizations. Sometimes from the inside out.

The League will, have at its core, the big 7, along with a number of other big names that function as extensions of the Justice League.

[DrNewGod]

Must Haves:
Dinosaur Island
A history that segues from pulp heroes (The Crimson/Midnight) to science adventurers (Challengers/Sea Devil's) to Superheroes
Layers (room for Roy Raymond, Batman, Martian Manhunter all at once)
No definitive answer to who The Phantom Stranger is
A multiverse
The JL as The Modern Roundtable of The World's Greatest Superheroes (both in-story and IRL)
Teenaged Kara Zor-el
Paradise Island as an interdimensional landmass, and the Amazons as a mystically and technologically advanced society
Gotham as a Chandler-esque Pesthole
Metropolis as a Disney-esque City of Tomorrow
The Phantom Zone, along with occasional escapes
Ras al-Ghul and Lex Luthor (but make them vie for supremacy with each other and Grodd)

Drop:
Literal interpretations of mythological gods
More than one of any alias (sorry Pick-A-Flash/GL fans)
Growing up sidekicks
The JSA/All-Star Squadron (give them their own world under a different imprint)
The Marvel Family (see JSA)
Vast numbers of surviving Kryptonians
Infinite Lantern Corps

[Sacred Knight]

If they TRULY wanted to reboot, no ifs ands or buts:

Must haves:
First generation heroes (starting with the JLA, no JSA on the same Earth)
The beginning of a second gen with the introduction of Dick Grayson Robin and then gradually introduce the rest of who will become the original Titans. But it'd roll out slowly. Robin wouldn't show up till maybe a year after Batman's launch, and everyone else would follow on a longer sliding scale. Don't force it, build it. Dick only gets introduced so early because he's easily the most important to his parent's mythos.

Drop:
ALL succeeding generations. One extra generation gradually introduced is legacy enough if you're truly wanting to reboot. You simply cannot shoehorn it all in.

[Jon Clark]

If they TRULY wanted to reboot, no ifs ands or buts:

Must haves:
First generation heroes (starting with the JLA, no JSA on the same Earth)
The beginning of a second gen with the introduction of Dick Grayson Robin and then gradually introduce the rest of who will become the original Titans. But it'd roll out slowly. Robin wouldn't show up till maybe a year after Batman's launch, and everyone else would follow on a longer sliding scale. Don't force it, build it. Dick only gets introduced so early because he's easily the most important to his parent's mythos.

Drop:
ALL succeeding generations. One extra generation gradually introduced is legacy enough if you're truly wanting to reboot. You simply cannot shoehorn it all in.

This is a great starting point. If we are rebooting, then we reboot. We get Superman or Batman on Day One. Nothing has happened before. You can have past events (Bruce knows Harvey Dent, Clark grew up with Lana and Pete) but nothing exists until it is established on the page. There is no prior continuity to be either drawn from or be confined by. No long running rivalry with Lex or the Joker. Superman never fought Doomsday and died. Batman hasn't met any meta-humans to have detailed plans on defeating them
You can introduce things like the Speed Force, but there is requirement to do so.

As stated above some of the main characters are set in stone, but not all of them. Flash can be Jay Garrick, Jesse Quick, or someobe . Green Lantern can be a space cop or someone with a magic lamp from some lost civilization. Just remember that the key is NEW stories not setting up old ones. So we aren't looking to re-establish Sinestro as a rogue Green Lantern unless the creative team has some new ground to cover based on that set-up. If someone wants to have the Legion of Superheroes as a galactic team in the present, it's possible. If you want to recreate Deathstroke but never introduce a feud with the Titans and have him face off with Green Arrow, Batman, or Flash, be my guest. In fact the only ideas I'd be likely to reject are classic stories being retold - no Zod led invasions in the first year, no Barry trying to stop Thawne from killing a loved one, no Ollie & Hal road trip across the US,

[DrNewGod]

Drop:
All previous incarnations of Flash, Green Lantern, The Atom, and The Hawkman (those last two really hurt to type). Recognize and respect the longevity of The Trinity (not to mention their brand power), plus GA and Aquaman, but remake the others for today, as was done in the late 1950s.

[astro@work]

GOLDEN RULE: Don't hang on to ANYbody's past continuity (a la Batman and GL in nu52). Everybody gets a fresh start.

Begin 5 years in, Trinity already up and running, JLA already in business with the big 7 (+maybe some early members like Atom or Green Arrow)

Titans newly formed with a de-aged Fab 5. Give them 2-3 years before starting introductions on the next gen of Tim, Cassie, Conner, etc.

Legion are in the future, don't start them from scratch, already in business.

JSA operated in the past (WW II), has disappeared. Give them a time-jump (i.e. frozen in stasis for decades), so they show up at the same ages as they were in 1952. Not over 100 yrs old, each with a different explanation for not being dead.
They should be In their 40's or 50's, so they are chronologically older than the JLA.

All other non-JLA/JSA/Fab 5 characters are introduced "for the first time" when they appear, so it's clear there is no past history to rectify. This includes additional Robins, additional teams (BOP, Outsiders, Suicide Squad, et al). All of the added characters get introduced when there is a great story to tell about them.

DON'T:
-Shoehorn in past "beloved" stories that don't fit into continuity anymore.
-Rapid age younger characters in order to hurry up and get them introduced.
-Undo newly established history; have a plan and stick to it...add in other stuff as newly happening (or it didn't happen)
-Screw up the origins of the following characters: Hawkman, Donna Troy, Wonder Woman, Power Girl.
-Introduce fan favorites in unrecognizable forms; examples= don't make Gar red, Raven a bird, Starfire a bimbo, etc.

[SiegePerilous02]

If they TRULY wanted to reboot, no ifs ands or buts:

Must haves:
First generation heroes (starting with the JLA, no JSA on the same Earth)
The beginning of a second gen with the introduction of Dick Grayson Robin and then gradually introduce the rest of who will become the original Titans. But it'd roll out slowly. Robin wouldn't show up till maybe a year after Batman's launch, and everyone else would follow on a longer sliding scale. Don't force it, build it. Dick only gets introduced so early because he's easily the most important to his parent's mythos.

Drop:
ALL succeeding generations. One extra generation gradually introduced is legacy enough if you're truly wanting to reboot. You simply cannot shoehorn it all in.

Pretty much this.

If I was brought on as a consultant and they wanted a reboot, I would tell them they should reconsider, because history has shown it hasn't worked. IF they determined to go through with it, they need to reboot COMPLETELY, not more half assed ones like they did with COIE and the New 52, and all the ones in between. Because that just leads to more convoluted problems. Nobody retains their history, all the stories get thrown out and they need to be upfront about this fact so fans don't obsess over what is and isn't canon. Only the bare essentials are canon, and they can build from that.

So I would restore a pre-Crisis style Multiverse. Earth-1 would be where most of the books take place, with the Justice League generation being established, and Dick's generation only just starting out: we don't need to rehash the origin stories because we know them all. I think starting with a 3-5 year timeline since Superman first arrived on the scene would be ok, because we wouldn't be trying to squeeze all the prior events within that small timeframe. Dick, Wally, Donna (who would benefit immensely from such a clean slate), Roy and Garth would have been around for about a year or so. All other generations would be shelved. Worry only about the main two. it defeats the purpose to squeeze them all into a younger universe. It would suck for the fans of the later characters, but as long as DC wasn't being blatantly hypocritical about things (4 Robins vs. 1 Batgirl: here, we'd just have one of each), it might go over better. Nothing would be done to make the future generations impossible to exist, they just wouldn't be around yet. But like Bart, for example, could cameo if Barry and/or Wally time travel to the future or something. And later characters that are non-generational, especially non-costumed characters like Renee Montoya and Amanda Waller, would be around because they aren't upsetting the apple cart

Earth-2 would have the JSA. It would be set during WWII, and the classic iterations would be in place. A Trinity would be on this Earth, they just wouldn't get much focus aside from needing to be around for Power Girl, Huntress and the Fury to exist. Stuff like Alan being gay could still be done, just done in a different way considering the setting. There are any number of reasons he would still sleep with a woman and we'd get Jade and Obsidian down the line. The Marvel Family would be on Earth-5, the Freedom Fighters would be on Earth-10, etc.

No radical design changes. Some updates would be ideal if we end up with a Wonder Woman or Shazam situation, but if we're looking at stuff like most of the New 52 designs, better stick with the originals. Everyone is recognizable. Ex: teen Wally West is a white redhead.

Less grim dark story telling. Darker subjects can be touched upon, but you don't need to get excessive with it, and it would obviously still vary from book to book. With the reboot in place, there is no need to clean house. Don't bring back obscure characters to kill off, just don't re-establish them and leave them alone.

[skyvolt2000]

Drop:
ALL succeeding generations. One extra generation gradually introduced is legacy enough if you're truly wanting to reboot. You simply cannot shoehorn it all in.

Do this and be willing to explain to the higher ups about all those fans of those generations being told to get lost and the loss of the money many of them bring in.

Now let's not kid ourselves, there are some things that are obvious. Nobody is getting rid of The Biggest Characters and those things closely associated with their brands. Beyond that, what should a DCU include, and just as importantly, what could it do without?

Sorry what Knight said would play into ANYTHING goes. If you are demanding a REBOOT of the HIGHEST order. Everything is fair game. Meaning disregard to folks favorites.

So I get to be COLD BLOODED.

Batman-we are 10 years into Batman's career.
Dick has been Robin 5 years and we start with him giving that role up-to be Nightwing and lead a group called Titans. Whose members include Donna, Garth, Roy, Raven, Starfire, Cyborg, Tempest and Wally under his new name Blurr (after he gave up being Kid Flash). All them have been around for 1-2 years.
Bruce takes in two boys whose parents were taken out thanks to Joker-Tim Drake (Robin 2) & Duke Thomas (Lark).
Babs has always been Batgirl. Stephanie & Cass stay under their old names.
Damian not born yet.

Flash
Wally just retires as Kid Flash (Bart takes over-6 months later). No Black Wally as Kid Flash.

Superman
Supergirl has been around 3 years
Conner will show up later on....
Jon Boy not born yet

Green Lantern
For NOW it's Hal-the others will show up before year one is over.

Titans is Dick's team.
Year 2-3 Tim, Conner & Bart (with others) want to form a team. Justice League (who have been around 7 years) agrees and we get Young Justice with all the sidekicks. However after year 1-Tim and some leave to form Teen Titans and we leave Duke, Meggan, Artemis and a few others under Young Justice.

The Legion of Doom exists. As does the Young Legion of Doom with Reverse Flash-Black Wally West.

[Sacred Knight]

Do this and be willing to explain to the higher ups about all those fans of those generations being told to get lost and the loss of the money many of them bring in.

Oh absolutely. My explanation (as the hypothetical consultant) would be simply this: if you want to reboot in the truest sense, i.e. starting over, you have to start over everywhere. That means some well-liked things get thrown out with the bathwater. It is a complete and unavoidable necessity. I would then go on to say that if they were not prepared to make that sacrifice, then put the kibosh on the entire idea right then and there and come up with something else. The worst thing you can do, and this is twice demonstrated, is half-ass it right from the word go, or get cold feet in the process and pull back on some things. When you go in anything other than full-ass, you end up with 1986 and 2011, which were nightmares in terms of canonicity before either even got off the ground.

[DrNewGod]

Must have: Dick Grayson as Robin (initially)

Drop: Haley's Circus. Theyre disappearing and it doesnt work as an origins anymore. Maybe make the parents members of a traveling troupe like Cirque du Soleil.

[byrd156]

Must have: Dick Grayson as Robin (initially)

Drop: Haley's Circus. Theyre disappearing and it doesnt work as an origins anymore. Maybe make the parents members of a traveling troupe like Cirque du Soleil.

Isn't that still a circus?