Comic Book Creators Who Don't Like Spider-Man

[David Walton]

To me, his Peter Parker/Spider-Man was pretty good and certainly not bad. What do you feel he had to say about Peter Parker, what was his arc for Spider-Man's development?

That's a great question! I don't know that Stern had any kind of radical character progression in mind, he just had a really great feel for Peter Parker and his world. He 'got' the characters and what makes them tick.

My favorite Roger Stern Spider-Man story is a done in one, ASM #246 ("The Daydreamers"). Felicia, MJ, Jonah and Peter all get a poignant character moment, courtesy of a peek inside their daydreams.

Christ on a bike. What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Why does every thread have to go like this?

The idea that a character's happiness is a sign a writer likes him is also a bit fishy.

I like what Bendis had to say about what he put Daredevil through.

Go check out some fanfic. Sadly, it is what more than a few fans want. Entire runs that are the X-Men playing baseball.

While Scott does prefer the marriage (as do I), I think you took the second part of his statement way too seriously. He was clearly just having some fun with that line!

[Scott Taylor]

The idea that a character's happiness is a sign a writer likes him is also a bit fishy.

I like what Bendis had to say about what he put Daredevil through.

This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.

I gathered my list based on interviews with some writers and artists, and experience some people have with some creators.

[David Walton]

I think I've heard Grant Morrison doesn't care for Spidey.

He definitely didn't write that good of a Spider-Man and he even admitted some of the issues with his run at some point.

I don't know if he didn't like the character or just never really gelled with him but I don't think Waid ever really shined on Spider-Man.

I think I read an interview once of Morrison's idea for a Spider-Man story.

It was really trippy .

If memory serves, Grant Morrison likes Spidey well enough, he just didn't feel like he was a good fit for the kind of stories he tends to tell. I think he said something along the lines of Spider-Man being too specific, compared with the broader more adaptable mythologies like Batman and Superman.

[boots]

i thought the alex ross v peter parker stuff came to light after he did the art for marvels...but maybe i made that up...

[Batman Begins 2005]

Kid Who Collected Spider-Man was great, but I have to admit to not being a huge fan of the Juggernaut story. So thats part of it for me.

Same here.

[Mister Mets]

This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.

The basis for that particular line of speculation isn't that credible.

There are some creators who have been open about not caring about the character, so we can look at that, as well as people who have turned down opportunities to work on the title/ use Spider-Man in their work.

[Scott Taylor]

The basis for that particular line of speculation isn't that credible.

There are some creators who have been open about not caring about the character, so we can look at that, as well as people who have turned down opportunities to work on the title/ use Spider-Man in their work.

But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.

[WebSlingWonder]

But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.

PREACH!! When it comes to the job, and the characters, sometimes you're not given a choice. But you do the best you can!

[Mister Mets]

But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.

I think it can be interesting to look at why particular comics pros might not like Spider-Man, but it would be a mistake to assume they're lesser writers because of this, and I've made no such claim. Grant Morrison's a fantastic comics writer, even if he doesn't appear to be a great fan of Spider-Man.

There is an easy trap of looking at a run one doesn't like, and suggesting it's because the writer doesn't like Spider-Man, which can lead to being the toxic combination of wrong and obnoxious.

A good writer who doesn't care for Spider-Man will be able to get other work. In the event, a writer who doesn't care for Spider-Man tackles the character, there's probably a reason beyond just getting a paycheck.

[Daniel22]

Christ on a bike. What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Why does every thread have to go like this?

We made it to twenty posts before it came up... That's actually farther than I thought it would go, I had the over/under at 9.5.

I'm gonna agree with Ennis. Besides his general lack of interest in superheroes, Spidey seems to have all of the specific things he just has no patience for or interest in: ridiculous costume, weird powers, ineffectual personal life (besides a few stretches), sentimental and prone to angst...

[Mister Mets]

We made it to twenty posts before it came up... That's actually farther than I thought it would go, I had the over/under at 9.5.

I'm gonna agree with Ennis. Besides his general lack of interest in superheroes, Spidey seems to have all of the specific things he just has no patience for or interest in: ridiculous costume, weird powers, ineffectual personal life (besides a few stretches), sentimental and prone to angst...

Since someone mentioned Ennis, he's pretty interesting for this discussion.

Spider-Man wasn't exactly treated with reverence during his run on the Punisher. In the first story, Punisher basically used Spider-Man as a human shield.



The conclusion of the Marvel Knights run had various heroes team up to take down Punisher, and fail.

However, Ennis' Tangled Web story did have a take on Peter Parker as a guy who is generous, thoughful, and will stand up to the monsters. And while there were earlier comments about how a professional should be able to write a character he doesn't care, I'm pretty sure Garth Ennis didn't write a Spider-Man story because he lacked job offers.

[Daniel22]

Since someone mentioned Ennis, he's pretty interesting for this discussion.

Spider-Man wasn't exactly treated with reverence during his run on the Punisher. In the first story, Punisher basically used Spider-Man as a human shield.



The conclusion of the Marvel Knights run had various heroes team up to take down Punisher, and fail.

However, Ennis' Tangled Web story did have a take on Peter Parker as a guy who is generous, thoughful, and will stand up to the monsters. And while there were earlier comments about how a professional should be able to write a character he doesn't care, I'm pretty sure Garth Ennis didn't write a Spider-Man story because he lacked job offers.

I think you are 100% right on the last part, Ennis has been an A list writer for decades now. If he really wanted a shot at an A list superhero I'm sure he could get one. They probably wouldn't give him the reigns to the flagship Spidey title (which is a wise move imo, Ennis is not nearly as precious towards American superheroes as other writers and a lot of fans wouldn't appreciate his take on them imo). But I could see him getting a mini or "What If" kind of thing for sure.

I've never gotten the feeling he doesn't like Peter, but moreso that the genre trappings just contain a lot of things he has no interest in. Kind of a "nice guy, but I wouldn't want to work with him" kind of thing.

[Scott Taylor]

Since someone mentioned Ennis, he's pretty interesting for this discussion.

Spider-Man wasn't exactly treated with reverence during his run on the Punisher. In the first story, Punisher basically used Spider-Man as a human shield.



The conclusion of the Marvel Knights run had various heroes team up to take down Punisher, and fail.

However, Ennis' Tangled Web story did have a take on Peter Parker as a guy who is generous, thoughful, and will stand up to the monsters. And while there were earlier comments about how a professional should be able to write a character he doesn't care, I'm pretty sure Garth Ennis didn't write a Spider-Man story because he lacked job offers.

This is a good point. Maybe in Ennis' case it was disrespect towards the character, hard to say. In the original Conway stories, the Punisher did the same thing all the time, though. Christopher Priest manipulated/mistreated Spidey in a big way in his famous one-shot, even going to the lengths of having him kill someone.

[Huntsman Spider]

This is a good point. Maybe in Ennis' case it was disrespect towards the character, hard to say. In the original Conway stories, the Punisher did the same thing all the time, though. Christopher Priest manipulated/mistreated Spidey in a big way in his famous one-shot, even going to the lengths of having him kill someone.

The actual killing was an accident, if I recall right, and the one-shot was more about illustrating the differences between a traditional, if flawed, hero like Spider-Man, someone with a very concrete sense of right and wrong and good and bad, and an anti-hero like Wolverine, who has his own nontraditional moral code that clashes with Spider-Man's, particularly in regards to killing. In that sense, it ended with both Spider-Man and Wolverine realizing that Spider-Man wasn't ready to go that deep into the kind of morally ambiguous settings that Wolverine normally navigated, and the same theme was repeated, if not echoed, in a storyline closer to home also written by Priest.

Again, if I'm recalling correctly, Spider-Man got entangled in a gang war that ended with Wilson Fisk once again on top of the New York criminal underworld, partly due to a perceived moral betrayal on Daredevil's part that Daredevil (at the time) justified as a necessary evil to keep the situation from devolving into an utter bloodbath, much to Spider-Man's disgust. Of course, this was portrayed as Spider-Man's idealism brutally colliding with harsh reality and even the pragmatism of his fellow crimefighters, again making the point that a traditional hero like Spider-Man had no place trying to navigate such morally ambiguous terrain where even those on the "right" side could find themselves forced to compromise their principles for a (perceived) greater good. I never got the sense that Priest entirely disliked Spider-Man, so much as the sensibilities of a character like that didn't entirely jive with his worldview and perspective.