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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    To me, his Peter Parker/Spider-Man was pretty good and certainly not bad. What do you feel he had to say about Peter Parker, what was his arc for Spider-Man's development?
    That's a great question! I don't know that Stern had any kind of radical character progression in mind, he just had a really great feel for Peter Parker and his world. He 'got' the characters and what makes them tick.

    My favorite Roger Stern Spider-Man story is a done in one, ASM #246 ("The Daydreamers"). Felicia, MJ, Jonah and Peter all get a poignant character moment, courtesy of a peek inside their daydreams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Christ on a bike. What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Why does every thread have to go like this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The idea that a character's happiness is a sign a writer likes him is also a bit fishy.

    I like what Bendis had to say about what he put Daredevil through.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Go check out some fanfic. Sadly, it is what more than a few fans want. Entire runs that are the X-Men playing baseball.
    While Scott does prefer the marriage (as do I), I think you took the second part of his statement way too seriously. He was clearly just having some fun with that line!

  2. #47
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The idea that a character's happiness is a sign a writer likes him is also a bit fishy.

    I like what Bendis had to say about what he put Daredevil through.
    This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.
    I gathered my list based on interviews with some writers and artists, and experience some people have with some creators.
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  4. #49
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-spider View Post
    I think I've heard Grant Morrison doesn't care for Spidey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He definitely didn't write that good of a Spider-Man and he even admitted some of the issues with his run at some point.

    I don't know if he didn't like the character or just never really gelled with him but I don't think Waid ever really shined on Spider-Man.

    I think I read an interview once of Morrison's idea for a Spider-Man story.

    It was really trippy .
    If memory serves, Grant Morrison likes Spidey well enough, he just didn't feel like he was a good fit for the kind of stories he tends to tell. I think he said something along the lines of Spider-Man being too specific, compared with the broader more adaptable mythologies like Batman and Superman.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    i thought the alex ross v peter parker stuff came to light after he did the art for marvels...but maybe i made that up...
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Kid Who Collected Spider-Man was great, but I have to admit to not being a huge fan of the Juggernaut story. So thats part of it for me.
    Same here.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    This whole thread is a bit fishy. None of us are doing anything but speculating.
    The basis for that particular line of speculation isn't that credible.

    There are some creators who have been open about not caring about the character, so we can look at that, as well as people who have turned down opportunities to work on the title/ use Spider-Man in their work.
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  8. #53
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The basis for that particular line of speculation isn't that credible.

    There are some creators who have been open about not caring about the character, so we can look at that, as well as people who have turned down opportunities to work on the title/ use Spider-Man in their work.
    But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

    I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.
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  9. #54
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

    I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.
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  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    But what is the relevance? So Garth Innis hates superheroes, so what? Alan Moore is known for hating them as well, yet we have some of the most beloved stories about superheroes from him. An artist/writer is a professional and still do their best regardless of feelings. What happens with writers who feel that way is that they tread new ground with a character, do something that is more to their liking. Thats what O'Neill did, and why his run gets kicked around alot. Some writers do the exact same thing (JMS, arguably) and get praised. Go figure.

    I just think its a stretch for us to imply that a writer can't be professional or somehow "tanks" his writing because he or she doesn't like a character. A writer loves to write, and I really think that trumps feelings about characters when a writing job comes up.
    I think it can be interesting to look at why particular comics pros might not like Spider-Man, but it would be a mistake to assume they're lesser writers because of this, and I've made no such claim. Grant Morrison's a fantastic comics writer, even if he doesn't appear to be a great fan of Spider-Man.

    There is an easy trap of looking at a run one doesn't like, and suggesting it's because the writer doesn't like Spider-Man, which can lead to being the toxic combination of wrong and obnoxious.

    A good writer who doesn't care for Spider-Man will be able to get other work. In the event, a writer who doesn't care for Spider-Man tackles the character, there's probably a reason beyond just getting a paycheck.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Christ on a bike. What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Why does every thread have to go like this?
    We made it to twenty posts before it came up... That's actually farther than I thought it would go, I had the over/under at 9.5.

    I'm gonna agree with Ennis. Besides his general lack of interest in superheroes, Spidey seems to have all of the specific things he just has no patience for or interest in: ridiculous costume, weird powers, ineffectual personal life (besides a few stretches), sentimental and prone to angst...

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    We made it to twenty posts before it came up... That's actually farther than I thought it would go, I had the over/under at 9.5.

    I'm gonna agree with Ennis. Besides his general lack of interest in superheroes, Spidey seems to have all of the specific things he just has no patience for or interest in: ridiculous costume, weird powers, ineffectual personal life (besides a few stretches), sentimental and prone to angst...
    Since someone mentioned Ennis, he's pretty interesting for this discussion.

    Spider-Man wasn't exactly treated with reverence during his run on the Punisher. In the first story, Punisher basically used Spider-Man as a human shield.



    The conclusion of the Marvel Knights run had various heroes team up to take down Punisher, and fail.

    However, Ennis' Tangled Web story did have a take on Peter Parker as a guy who is generous, thoughful, and will stand up to the monsters. And while there were earlier comments about how a professional should be able to write a character he doesn't care, I'm pretty sure Garth Ennis didn't write a Spider-Man story because he lacked job offers.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Since someone mentioned Ennis, he's pretty interesting for this discussion.

    Spider-Man wasn't exactly treated with reverence during his run on the Punisher. In the first story, Punisher basically used Spider-Man as a human shield.



    The conclusion of the Marvel Knights run had various heroes team up to take down Punisher, and fail.

    However, Ennis' Tangled Web story did have a take on Peter Parker as a guy who is generous, thoughful, and will stand up to the monsters. And while there were earlier comments about how a professional should be able to write a character he doesn't care, I'm pretty sure Garth Ennis didn't write a Spider-Man story because he lacked job offers.
    I think you are 100% right on the last part, Ennis has been an A list writer for decades now. If he really wanted a shot at an A list superhero I'm sure he could get one. They probably wouldn't give him the reigns to the flagship Spidey title (which is a wise move imo, Ennis is not nearly as precious towards American superheroes as other writers and a lot of fans wouldn't appreciate his take on them imo). But I could see him getting a mini or "What If" kind of thing for sure.

    I've never gotten the feeling he doesn't like Peter, but moreso that the genre trappings just contain a lot of things he has no interest in. Kind of a "nice guy, but I wouldn't want to work with him" kind of thing.

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