Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[DragonsChi]

I wouldn't say Sam has "everything" one could ask for. From what I recall his mom was always working and they always had money issues. Also his dad's reputation as a drunk janitor who mysteriously disappeared sure didn't help him. Oh yeah let's not forget that when he got his dad back he turned out to be a fake. Spoiled rich kid does not really fit Sam at all.

His family had money issue when his dad left at 15 when he was gifted with cosmic powers. A quick 3 years left before he becomes a legal adult. A large chunk hispanic/Latino and Black families have money issues from birth and we don’t get super powers to make up the difference.

His father was a drunk who took a crap job to help provided for his family. Which he did. He was a drunk ,who as of yet to be revealed, never laid a hand on anyone in his family or from what I can tell never verbally abuse them in anyway. He was a drunk who took care of his family. So Sam’s a little embarrassed that his father’s in constant state of morning of his crap life, big deal. There are kids who have a hell of alot worse and we don’t get to rube elbows with Tony Stark whenever we feel like it.

Now the stuff with his cloned father, you got a case there. But were talking about Sam’s weak ground for being a minority as to why he should get a push for a movie over a character with established history of well recieved stories and more of a fanbase. Just to add further that part of his history came after the guy was given the ability to fly through space and blow up planets with a wave of his hand.

[DragonsChi]

Re-reading my post and it sounds a lot harsher than what I mean for it to be. But those are the facts :/

I just think if the race thing will be the only hang-up for Rich. It be better for the studio to just give Rich a half hispanic or latino background, get to the fun stuff, and dive into that part of his heritage as he goes. Because it’s not even really being represented all that well with Sam anyways.

Rich has the story, the connections, and the fanbase. He just seems like the better choice to me.

[Holt]

This thread took an absurd turn really fast.

Rich has the story, the conections, and the fanbase.

The last one isn't really relevant (Again, Scott Lang) and if the first two are absolutely required for a movie (they aren't), then there's no reason they couldn't be transferred to Sam anyway. Superman: The Animated Series transferred Hal Jordan's origin to Kyle Rayner and that's far from the only instance (Ant-Man did as well).

[DragonsChi]

Scott Lang actually had his own origin adapted in the movie. What you mean is Lang stared in the Ant-Man movie when some felt it should have been Hank.


But here we are again back to the merry go round of who can move here or what can be moved there.

[Ascended]

I wouldn't say Sam has "everything" one could ask for. From what I recall his mom was always working and they always had money issues. Also his dad's reputation as a drunk janitor who mysteriously disappeared sure didn't help him. Oh yeah let's not forget that when he got his dad back he turned out to be a fake. Spoiled rich kid does not really fit Sam at all.

No, Sam definitely didn't have an ideal childhood. Did he have it better than a statistically significant number of Latino Americans? Sure, maybe? But he still came from a poor, broke family, his father was a laughing stock as a janitor who was often and largely absent, his mother worked herself to death at multiple jobs, and Sam himself wasn't terribly popular or well liked by the student body or his teachers.

He had it better than a lot of people, but he was very, very far from well off. And then all the superheroic shenanigans started and things just got weird, like with the fake dad.

[DragonsChi]

Keep in mind...I never said Sam was rich. I said he read like he was spoiled rich kid. There is a difference.

[Ascended]

Keep in mind...I never said Sam was rich. I said he read like he was spoiled rich kid. There is a difference.

He definitely had a certain "Skywalker whiny-ness" to him, that's for sure.

Personally I liked Sam more on the Spider-Man cartoon, where he had more ego, even if he was a little prat. His rivalry with Parker was fun (my son loved that show so we watched it together) and generally I found him more enjoyable than the print version. But comic Sam is still fairly fun; he was good in the last Nova series, and what little I've read of my son's Champions, he doesn't seem too bad there either. Honestly my biggest issue with Sam is that he's not Richard, which is very unfair to Sam's character; he deserves to be measured by his own merits and worth just like any other character, and not by who he isn't.

Actually, speaking of the "buddy cop" Nova series.....remember how Fiege has said that if you wanna know where the MCU is going in the next ten years you should look to the comics today? I'd bet decent money that if serious talks have taken place about a Nova movie, that Rich-Sam dynamic is what they'd go for. Considering how Marvel comics are just storyboards for movie treatments these days it feels like a pretty safe bet.

[Killerbee911]

. But were talking about Sam’s weak ground for being a minority .

1.So be a real minority he has to be poor and without a father .Okay got it.


2. Also we are saying that character who started darker




Is at fault for not being Latino enough because colorist don't make him dark enough(like they do with M,Dante and Sunspot)



I am in a fantasy world? Right now. Moving on

Getting a reasonable perspective from some was impossible because the thread undertone was the same undertone when Sam was announced. Why is this character stealing the spotlight away from the Richard Ryder. Anyways my perspective remains the same the Nova franchise is weak as whole .Sam has the better origins,supporting cast,core themes and bring much need diversity to the table but does not have a classic must tell story for a movie franchise( fyi I don't think Miles or Ms Marvel have one either but like Sam their origins are good enough for movies). Richard Ryder has classic must tell story for a franchise but you can't reach those stories because his early stories are weak,plus the must tell stories will be vastly changed in the MCU because all changes that have to happen. In terms of adapting a movie Sam gives you a good start , You are going to be deconstructing the franchise taking all the good pieces and putting together not just Sam Richard and Richard Rider, stuff like Anwen Bakian,Frankie raye,etc

Of the characters who would benefit from a line wide reboot the most right on the top of the list would be Richard Rider, They need to go back to origin with all of this great lore that franchise has evolved into apply a tight story to it. Nova has change from Green Lantern rip off into its only well thought out thing and Ryder is better character with flesh out lore. When(if) a hollywood writer gets their hand Nova they are going to shred away most junk of continuity away,Try to place it in realistic world flesh out world and tell a simple efficient story. Anyway I have made point but is being missed because for some reason it is being seen that I am against Ryder. The reality is I know that like Starlord, Drax and Gamora the same thing will happen to Richard the character who is on the screen will be nothing like the character in books. Understanding it is basically a brand new character that will being show up Sam Alexander is a better choice. The Spiderman in homecoming was a good spiderman but not really the one from the books,The Richard Ryder who shows up in movie will be in name alone.

[Holt]

Scott Lang actually had his own origin adapted in the movie.

I know what I said. Elements of Hank Pym's character were combined into Scott Lang.

[DragonsChi]

1.So be a real minority he has to be poor and without a father .Okay got it. [/img]

No, I'm saying that his application of being a minority based off of how he is drawn and represented in the book can easily be transplanted on to Rich. There is nothing that firmly places him as character as minority outside of Marvel saying it is so.

Getting a reasonable perspective from some was impossible because the thread undertone was the same undertone when Sam was announced. Why is this character stealing the spotlight away from the Richard Ryder. Anyways my perspective remains the same the Nova franchise is weak as whole .Sam has the better origins,supporting cast,core themes and bring much need diversity to the table but does not have a classic must tell story for a movie franchise( fyi I don't think Miles or Ms Marvel have one either but like Sam their origins are good enough for movies). Richard Ryder has classic must tell story for a franchise but you can't reach those stories because his early stories are weak,plus the must tell stories will be vastly changed in the MCU because all changes that have to happen. In terms of adapting a movie Sam gives you a good start , You are going to be deconstructing the franchise taking all the good pieces and putting together not just Sam Richard and Richard Rider, stuff like Anwen Bakian,Frankie raye,etc

Of the characters who would benefit from a line wide reboot the most right on the top of the list would be Richard Rider, They need to go back to origin with all of this great lore that franchise has evolved into apply a tight story to it. Nova has change from Green Lantern rip off into its only well thought out thing and Ryder is better character with flesh out lore. When(if) a hollywood writer gets their hand Nova they are going to shred away most junk of continuity away,Try to place it in realistic world flesh out world and tell a simple efficient story. Anyway I have made point but is being missed because for some reason it is being seen that I am against Ryder. The reality is I know that like Starlord, Drax and Gamora the same thing will happen to Richard the character who is on the screen will be nothing like the character in books. Understanding it is basically a brand new character that will being show up Sam Alexander is a better choice. The Spiderman in homecoming was a good spiderman but not really the one from the books,The Richard Ryder who shows up in movie will be in name alone.

I'm convinced at this point that you haven't even read Rich's origin and you are simply re-lying on a wiki search so I'm going to keep it short. Rich's origin is arguably better than Sam's. Rich was a bullied youth with confidence issues who slowly became one of the most badass heroes' in the universe. Sam on the other hand doesn't even have any stories that make him rememberable to which you admitted yourself. Rich has the better stories overall, again which you have admitted. Rich doesn't need a reboot you just need to actually read the story.

The diversity thing is a non-issue because I'm saying Rich should have that aspect added on to his character so that we can get him in the movie and more importantly keep him in the comics.

Your post are kind of funny by the way. Because you go on this rant about how one thing can't happen then somewhere in the post you often go "this wont matter because the studio will make the story they want." Friend, if the studio is going to apply that logic to Sam...they can do the same thing to Rich.

I know what I said. Elements of Hank Pym's character were combined into Scott Lang.

No, not really. Hank was actually in the film. You could say that now he is dating a Wasp. But that wasp isn't even Janet and is a new character entirely so, still no. You could say he grows now but a power upgrade doesn't equal characterization.

So yeah...your kinda just making this up.

[chamber-music]

Rich and Sam could easily be a buddy cop movie. Sam the young partner, Rich the grizzled yet...in space!

The only issue with the space buddy cop concept is that DC's reboot of Green Lantern is also said to be a space buddy cop film with veteran Hal taking rookie John under his wing.

[Killerbee911]

Your post are kind of funny by the way. Because you go on this rant about how one thing can't happen then somewhere in the post you often go "this wont matter because the studio will make the story they want." Friend, if the studio is going to apply that logic to Sam...they can do the same thing to Rich.
[i.

Then you realize is it just a "name" we are talking about right because they can name him Sam Alexander and tell Riders stories or they can give sam's origin to Rider but I have been saying this entire time. For entire time I have been saying Sam origin and background is better for that scenario. Changing Rich to latino pisses off white people who hate racebending and Rich fans AND it also pisses people by passing on minority character to use basically a white character. Do yourself a favor look what my post have being actually saying. Rich has a better big story but it does have be "him" especially when the story will be vastly change in similar fashion to how Thor got Planet Hulk put into his storyline.

The Nova franchise is weak for movie adaptation Sam has the better origin,background and supporting cast, Rich has the better big story. If they are making a movie franchise with one singular character it is better that use Sam origin with intention telling modified Rich Nova stories because just like Planet Hulk and Infinity Gauntlet you are not going see Annihilation/Thanos Imperative and anywhere close to what it was in comics but it has couple of set pieces that would make for set up of good movie. Having better story does matter if you can't use Surfer,Ronin,GoG,Annihilus and many relationship and history of the character. Freaking Adam Warlock, Silver Surfer and Death are key Infinity gauntlet none of them are in Avenger 3. Marvel has famously taken stories like Ragnarok, Ultron, Planet Hulk, Civil War, and Infinity Gauntlet hatch them up to where they don't look like the original story and don't even have some original characters. I am not talking from a place of dislike of character I like Rich but Pre Annihilation he is average just like Sam is average. He is better character during that time period and after but if you can't use the stories in tact he has no advantage over Sam. Any Richard Rider story that hits big screen will be vast re imagining of the character I would bet money on that.

[DragonsChi]

Then you realize is it just a "name" we are talking about right because they can name him Sam Alexander

It's not though. A reoccurring problem with most of your post back to me is that you are cherry picking what I am typing. The issue with having Sam star the film is that we loose Rich in the comics. Who has the fan base and the the better stories. Having Rich's storyline added on to Sam is the same thing as having fans find out Rich is actually part Hispanic/Latino through some storyline in the comics. So not only do we get the better character but we also appease the color politics of those who will take an admittedly bad product over a better product for it's sake. *shrug*

The controversy for a change like that will be minimal if there is any at all. Because again there is nothing in the books that signal's the character is anything but a white kid. If Marvel threw in that Rich has a proud Latino uncle, aunt, or grandparent and kept the story going it be done and no one would fuss about it.

The franchise is weak for movie adaptation Sam has the better origin,background and supporting cast, Rich has the better big story.

This is your opinion and no where near the truth. Sam's origin isn't better than Rich's. Rich origin is just as movie ready as any other character. He also has BETTER stories over all and more of history with the MU and characters currently in the MCU.

Your arguing in circles again btw. You keep saying they can modify Sam for the movies. Guess what they can Modify Rich to do the same. Like I said before earlier it can go either way.

I hope Rich gets it. Because frankly when posters who are arguing for Sam are telling you Rich has better stories the discussion shouldn't have even gone on this long.

[Ichijinijisanji]

I'll make a new character and call him Samuel Rider.

He's half latino.

[Agent Z]

I know what I said. Elements of Hank Pym's character were combined into Scott Lang.

Wait, what elements of Hank were given to Scott?