Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[Ascended]

Their angst need one another as foils, as neither’s character is enough to carry a move by themselves. And a buddy cop movie is overdue from Marvel

Generally I agree with a lot of the points you're making in your post, with the exception of what I quoted here.

If a movie was going to limit itself solely to the characterization we see on page, you might have an argument. I mean, literary analysis being what it is, it'd still be highly, highly subjective, but I could see your point. But a movie isn't limited by the source material. They could, can, and have, added various little tweaks and adjustments to characters to round out the narrative. For example, to my limited knowledge we've never seen Tony Stark pine for a kid of his own, but that's what we got in Infinity War and that informed a lot of Tony's arc in the film, while also driving the gut punch of Parker's Snapping home.

I think Rich and Sam both have enough characterization in the comics to serve as a solid foundation, and then whatever is missing can easily be filled in by the script.

I do like the idea of a buddy cop movie. It's a different kind of genre for Marvel Studios and it gives all Nova fans what they want. But I dont think it's necessarily the "better" or "must-do" option overall, even if it does have its strong points and arguably better optics (at least in some ways) than just doing one Nova or the other.

[kevlon]

Are Latinos/Hispanics not white? Excuse my ignorance in American culture, but in Europe the closest to these are the countries around the med (Spain etc) and they are Caucasian. You try telling them they're not white and they'll slap you down.

[mace11]

Are Latinos/Hispanics not white? Excuse my ignorance in American culture, but in Europe the closest to these are the countries around the med (Spain etc) and they are Caucasian. You try telling them they're not white and they'll slap you down.

Latinos/hispanics have people of all races.
White,brown,black and east asian origin types(east asians,native americans etc..).
Read the comments about this below.
Open link.
BLUE BEETLE
https://forums.superherohype.com/thr....547079/page-2

[Killerbee911]

Are Latinos/Hispanics not white? Excuse my ignorance in American culture, but in Europe the closest to these are the countries around the med (Spain etc) and they are Caucasian. You try telling them they're not white and they'll slap you down.

This is interesting topic that I mostly leave alone but a large amount of Latino/Hispanic people consider themselves Latino/Hispanic people not Black, White, Asian,etc. If you want interesting convo trying discussing Race and Ethnic Groups with some people from those backgrounds.It is not necessary America Culture thing tho

[DragonsChi]

Are Latinos/Hispanics not white? Excuse my ignorance in American culture, but in Europe the closest to these are the countries around the med (Spain etc) and they are Caucasian. You try telling them they're not white and they'll slap you down.

This is sorta of my point. Sam appears to be a "white" Latino/Hispanic so revealing Rich is Hispanic/Latino as well wouldn't be an issue. If it where changed there is no reason why the character, Rich Rider, with the stories people want to see in a live action film can't star in them. Nothing about Sam so far has set him apart, culture wise, that makes him so vital to it.

This whole notion that it is more work to have one detail revealed about a character verses taking a totally different character and trying to transplant them into those stories is just asinine.

[Ascended]

They could certainly say that Rich is biracial or a "white passing" Latino or whatever they like. DC did it with Kyle Rayner. And that's actually one of the two reasons Im not eager to see it done to Rich. Kyle having "diversity" thrown on him, many years after his debut, did not go over very well with a lot of fans. And in the end, it didnt inform or change Kyle's character, it added nothing to the narrative (outside of his father apparently being a super amazing super spy, which went over worse than the race-bending) and it's been basically ignored ever since. It was done for a diversity checklist, not because it enhanced or enriched the character, and with other Lanterns of color like John Stewart being available, the whole thing just sort of blew up in DC's face.

I'd rather not see Marvel make the same mistake with Richard, because I can only assume that, once again, the effort would fail and piss people off. If we want a Nova of color, there's Sam, who is biracial by design and always has been.

Now, one thing I've been considering.....Richard is supposed to be a peer of Spider-Man. So if they did make a Nova movie and if they did go with Richard, would they cast a younger person in the role and keep Rich part of the same "generation?" One of the things that goes against Rich's favor is he's another adult white guy in the vague age range of "young-ish adult." Returning him to his teen years for a movie makes him stand out a little more (which is a point in favor of Sam) and allows for a more even dynamic with Parker.

Of course, other heroes in the MCU are supposed to be around Parker's age in the comics but are much older in the movies.

[DragonsChi]

If Marvel were to reveal that Rich was actually bi-racial it opens the door for them to do something with it. It opens the door for them to do something with a potential major character with stories that are generally well recieved. Because right now they have a character who fits that and they haven't done anything with it anyway. And from what I'm finding more and more across the web (Not just here) it's with a character people generally don't like anyway. Yeah, some Kyle Reyners fans where like WFT but they still supported him. Why, because he was a solid character and as you said it really did not change anything about who he was. But it did open up the opportunity for Kyle to share his culture with the audience in Omega Men.

In terms of the movie that would be the better option instead of making a movie about a character that a lot people don't like when a another character who people generally liked is available.

Unless Nova is announced this year or the next with the way movie scheduling/releases work for the films Peter would be closer to college age anyway. So I'm not sure it would matter. But again Rich started out as a high school kid as well so that really doesn't stop anything either.


Edit:
I'm still at it can go either way. But hoping for Rich and more Rich in the comics. Black Order #2 came out today so I'm excited to pick it up. Hope the people visiting do the same.

[Ascended]

Unless Nova is announced this year or the next with the way movie scheduling/releases work for the films Peter would be closer to college age anyway.

That's a good point. Holland isn't going to look that young forever.

[mace11]

This is sorta of my point. Sam appears to be a "white" Latino/Hispanic

Sam is not white passing in cartoons and most of the time he is drawn not looking white in comics from what i seen so far.

[mace11]

They could certainly say that Rich is biracial or a "white passing" Latino or whatever they like. DC did it with Kyle Rayner. And that's actually one of the two reasons Im not eager to see it done to Rich.

How is sam drawn recently on average in champions by the way?
I have not keep up with recent issues.

[Cap808]

I mean no offense, but what if Marvel goes the route of Richard being of mixed ethnicity, but not Hispanic? Would that make things easier? How about part-Hawaiian?

[Ascended]

How is sam is drawn recently on average in champions by the way?
I have not keep up with recent issues.

Im not sure, to be honest. I haven't flipped through my son's newest issues and the last ones I saw didn't seem to have Sam in them. At least not in what I glanced at.

The last time I did see Sam in Champions, he was still being colored a little lighter than he was originally in the comics, and lighter than the cartoon, but he still looked biracial.

I mean no offense, but what if Marvel goes the route of Richard being of mixed ethnicity, but not Hispanic? Would that make things easier? How about part-Hawaiian?

I think it'd still cause criticism. I posted this line earlier in the thread, but "Marvel race-bends white guy because actual PoC isn't good enough" is the headline I would expect to see. I dont think the details actually matter at all, I think the optics alone are just too negative to make it worthwhile.

Changing Richard is just going to be seen as pandering. No one wants that. Especially if it comes at the cost of an actual PoC.

[mace11]

Edited above.

I think if there is a nova movie,sam and richard will be in it.

[DragonsChi]

I mean no offense, but what if Marvel goes the route of Richard being of mixed ethnicity, but not Hispanic? Would that make things easier? How about part-Hawaiian?

Not to sound to abrasive but anything would work as long as it's not to drastic and fits with how he was previously drawn. As mess up as it sounds, him changing his background is just to appease those who will get distracted by it and has nothing to do with his stories or history in the Marvel Universe. I say just give it to them to keep em' quiet and make everyone happy.

I think it'd still cause criticism. I posted this line earlier in the thread, but "Marvel race-bends white guy because actual PoC isn't good enough" is the headline I would expect to see. I dont think the details actually matter at all, I think the optics alone are just too negative to make it worthwhile.

I don't believe this will happen. Every time Marvel has changed a characters background so far for the purpose of being more diverse the news has written it as a victory or that they won. They always do. And the non-fans and the actual fans who are concerned about it saw it as an opportunity to rejoice and to extent rub peoples noses in it.

I remember when I was just a lurker what happen around here and on several social networks when Iceman's background was changed no one brought up the other X-Men who were LGBTQ that where being ignored. Instead there were just people saying "I told you so" and doing their version of a clapping on those outlets. People who hardly ever posted did so that day on both sides. There where people who were upset about it but at the end of the day they were pretty much silenced due to the nature of it. That was pretty much the uniform way it happened all across the net. I even remember as far back as Kyle Rayner (was veeerrry young back then) on the DC forums, people where a heck of a lot less vocal about it in comparison, but the same thing happen. People kicked up some sand but eventually were silenced by those who were ok with it due to the nature of the discussion.

The key is how Marvel does it to get the least amount noise around the switch. I think the best solution is to have an Uncle or an Aunt show up to pay respects to Richards dad and maybe hand something off to Richard that his father would want him to have. In the conversation of the hand off have the relative just mention they are from X originally but came to America when they where young. Then have the story focus on how his father made him the man he is today through flashbacks while he is dealing with a super powered threat.

This method has the elements needed to justify a non-negative response. Death of a love one, person passing something down to remember the loved one, son morning the loss of his father , son acknowledging that his fathers influence in his life, son taking up the responsibility to represent his father in everything he does, and at the end the son keeps his father living through his actions. Done.

Do something like that where the audience has a deep emotional response that everyone can relate to and any press, fan, or S#$t starter will just seem like an A-whole for arguing against the switch.

Edit:
Again the only reason I even want this is so we get to keep Rich in the comics. If the MCU features anyone else, Rich is going to be written out of them. Point Blank. It's happened to many times now. We know how this works. Sam gets to stay regardless. (which is incredibly F'ed all things considered) Rich on the other hand does not.

[Digifiend]

Im not sure, to be honest. I haven't flipped through my son's newest issues and the last ones I saw didn't seem to have Sam in them. At least not in what I glanced at.

I assume that's either the Secret Empire tie-in (issues 10 and 11) or issue 24 then.

This is him from issue 27.