Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[DragonsChi]

I assume that's either the Secret Empire tie-in (issues 10 and 11) or issue 24 then.

Fingers crossed that he just keeps whatever power that is and does his own thing.

Strange color choice though. Seems Green Lantern esque

[Tofali]

Fingers crossed that he just keeps whatever power that is and does his own thing.

Strange color choice Seems though. Green Lantern esque

He is In Weirdworld.

[Michael Watkins]

I mean no offense, but what if Marvel goes the route of Richard being of mixed ethnicity, but not Hispanic? Would that make things easier? How about part-Hawaiian?

i'm good with it.

[Tycon]

Latinos can be white, black, brown, etc etc. Sam is a white-passing Latino with a brown mom and white dad.

[mace11]

Sam is a white-passing Latino

I disagree.
Sometimes he drawn white looking but not most of the time.
He is not passing in the cartoons and video games for example and most of time not passing in the comics.

If he is drawn white looking in comics that's a mistake.
If they get actors to play sam in live action he should not be white passing.

The last time I did see Sam in Champions, he was still being colored a little lighter than he was originally in the comics, and lighter than the cartoon, but he still looked biracial.

Sam is not white passing in cartoons and most of the time he is drawn not looking white in comics from what i seen so far.

Note - sam's mother is ethnically latino but racially native american/asian.

[kevlon]

I've always thought of Sam as white. A darker shade, but still white.

[kevlon]

I disagree.
Sometimes he drawn white looking but not most of the time.
He is not passing in the cartoons and video games for example and most of time not passing in the comics.

If he is drawn white looking in comics that's a mistake.
If they get actors to play sam in live action he should not be white passing.

I don't understand this white passing. He looks like a white kid to me. There are many shades of white and Sam to me could look like he could be from Spain. And the Spanish are white (the original natives to Spain, that is).

[mace11]

I don't understand this white passing. He looks like a white kid to me. There are many shades of white and Sam to me could look like he could be from Spain. And the Spanish are white (the original natives to Spain, that is).

Sam is latino and latinos from latin america are all races.
There are hispanics/latino in spain that are not white as well.
Sam is not white and he is not passing most of the time in comics.
In the cartoons and video games he not white passing.

I've always thought of Sam as white. A darker shade, but still white.

His father is white and his mother is not.
He is mestizo-native american and ethnically latino or part latino.

Note - sam's mother is ethnically latino but racially native american/asian.

[mace11]

Read this.
Marvel Characters of Mixed Race
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...-of-Mixed-Race
and
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...xed-Race/page3

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'm baffled by all this talk of if Sam is Hispanic enough or not. It seems to ignore the medium entirely.

I've seen writers draw Cap and Pym with the same face. Comics is a limited medium in which much can be conveyed, but at the same time, much cannot.

Accents are hard to convey. Facial features, skin tone from one artist to the next, eye color, can all vary depending on whether or not the artist is on a deadline. As I understand it, some black characters were/are drawn as looking by-racial simply because it saves on ink. Hulk went from grey to green because it made printing easier, to cite a non racial example.

All mediums face limitations, and different suspension of disbeliefs. For comics, being able to consistently convey racial features is one of those.

So if Marvel says Sam is bi-racial, that's good enough for me.

[DragonsChi]

I'm baffled by all this talk of if Sam is Hispanic enough or not. It seems to ignore the medium entirely.

I've seen writers draw Cap and Pym with the same face. Comics is a limited medium in which much can be conveyed, but at the same time, much cannot.

Accents are hard to convey. Facial features, skin tone from one artist to the next, eye color, can all vary depending on whether or not the artist is on a deadline. As I understand it, some black characters were/are drawn as looking by-racial simply because it saves on ink. Hulk went from grey to green because it made printing easier, to cite a non racial example.

All mediums face limitations, and different suspension of disbeliefs. For comics, being able to consistently convey racial features is one of those.

So if Marvel says Sam is bi-racial, that's good enough for me.

Its not about him being hispanic enough. Its about that part of him not being important enough to his character to justiy anything, let alone a movie in the MCU. When Rich Rider has the better stories and a stronger fanbase. It be easy just to reveal that Rich has a diverse background then give prority to Sam for superficial reason.

[Anthony W]

Does it really matter?

It has always felt like Sam's ethnicity isn't as central to his character as it is to his other contemporaries Miles and Kamala. It almost feels like it was an afterthought pinned on at the last second.

[Killerbee911]

So understand this again Rich Rider Nova solo series has been canceled "5 times". He has more vocal fanbase because the character has been around longer but being around long is not the end all. Sam Alexander has been around 9 years with no definitive great story. Rich Rider went 30 years before Annihilation his definitive great story, He has a ton of meh years and canceled books between 1976 and 2006.

Say what you want about Sam he held a solo book from 2013 to basically 2016. And has had good showings in Avengers and Champions. He has shown up in Spiderman Cartoon,GoG cartoon and couple of Marvel video games. The Sam Alexander is legit worthy character in his own right. For all this talk being better,a book with Rich just got canceled,Yes Sam was in it but all of Rich great and awesome fans didn't keep his book going.They waited all of these years for him to back,he is final back AND apparently they aren't enough die hard Rich Rider fans to support a solo book.

I like Rich but the blame game from some his fans is hilarious. Wolverine and X23 exist together, Spiderman, Miles, Scarlet Spider and Ghost Spider exist together, Iron man and Ironheart exist together,etc. Comics ain't the highlander if a character is popular enough they will stick around even with a similar concept around. Rich is good character BUT right now him not appearing falls solely in the hands fans who didn't support his book. And if Marvel decides to make a movie with Sam it is not f'd up that character who had nice four year solo run would get another chance at book. Anyways I watch enter the Spiderverse yesterday and Peter is maybe a million times more popular than miles and has better stories but they adapted Miles origin in cool way and it was great movie. In fact it is good enough to make you consider for second if they should have used Miles in the MCU and homecoming borrows generously from Miles mythos ironically. I am glad the Spiderverse movie came out so I don't even have to explain anymore the merit of Sam and his modern origin/his background in a movie.

[DragonsChi]

Does it really matter?

It has always felt like Sam's ethnicity isn't as central to his character as it is to his other contemporaries Miles and Kamala. It almost feels like it was an afterthought pinned on at the last second.

Bold is my point entirely. It shouldn't matter but to some it does so here we are.

So understand this again Rich Rider Nova solo series has been canceled "5 times". He has more vocal fanbase because the character has been around longer but being around long is not the end all. Sam Alexander has been around 9 years with no definitive great story. Rich Rider went 30 years before Annihilation his definitive great story, He has a ton of meh years and canceled books between 1976 and 2006.

Say what you want about Sam he held a solo book from 2013 to basically 2016. And has had good showings in Avengers and Champions. He has shown up in Spiderman Cartoon,GoG cartoon and couple of Marvel video games. The Sam Alexander is legit worthy character in his own right. For all this talk being better,a book with Rich just got canceled,Yes Sam was in it but all of Rich great and awesome fans didn't keep his book going.They waited all of these years for him to back,he is final back AND apparently they aren't enough die hard Rich Rider fans to support a solo book.

I like Rich but the blame game from some his fans is hilarious. Wolverine and X23 exist together, Spiderman, Miles, Scarlet Spider and Ghost Spider exist together, Iron man and Ironheart exist together,etc. Comics ain't the highlander if a character is popular enough they will stick around even with a similar concept around. Rich is good character BUT right now him not appearing falls solely in the hands fans who didn't support his book. And if Marvel decides to make a movie with Sam it is not f'd up that character who had nice four year solo run would get another chance at book. Anyways I watch enter the Spiderverse yesterday and Peter is maybe a million times more popular than miles and has better stories but they adapted Miles origin in cool way and it was great movie. In fact it is good enough to make you consider for second if they should have used Miles in the MCU and homecoming borrows generously from Miles mythos ironically. I am glad the Spiderverse movie came out so I don't even have to explain anymore the merit of Sam and his modern origin/his background in a movie.

You're throwing out "5 times" like it justifies anything. Rich's 5 times sold a lot better than Sam's 3. In fact the only reason Sam had such a "long" run is because he was created by the man who also controlled the tv side of Marvel. So lets not pretend that Sam was doing so much better than Rich when he was at cancelation numbers(27,982 units sold) since his #11 issue came out for his first run. His title then continuously dropped in sales from that point onward. When his second title came out with this cover:



Fans rightfully assumed it was Rich in the tile and the title sales went up to 45,000 units. But by issue 3 of that same series people realized it was a bait and switch and the numbers dropped to 19,000 units sold. Where it stayed or continued to drop until the next relaunch.

Sam being on tv was the only thing that kept his book on the stands. When that show went away to no surprise so did he as a solo character. Sam did so much damage to the mythos that when they did try to bring Rich back fans had already given up entirely on the Sam and the concept. They were tired of waiting for Rich to come back and dealing with a character they clearly did not want to read about. You can find all this information in various articles and just by following the sales stats on the web.

http://www.comichron.com/index.php

[Killerbee911]

Being cancel 5 times doesn't mean anything? Lol. Nova isn't only character I will say it about Blade, Moon Knight, Punisher, Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel etc. If Marvel keeps throw you out and solo isn't working maybe the fans don't want your book. The boast Rich has rabid fan base so thirsty for him that they would be boost sale amazingly but wouldn't buy the co team book with him doesn't make sense . I like both characters just as a realist though the Nova concept isn't as strong some people are making it to be and it still needs a lot work. Rich isn't the sure thing being touted around by some of his fans and that is most annoy thing.


Anyways the dope thing about the next time Sam gets a book,he doesn't have to worry about a built in group of people hating him and thinking he is taking away spot from their character. He will have his champion fanbase and it will be all good. He can build organically from that point. As I said before there is space for both characters and existence of each character when something isn't a establish sure thing means that each character increase the chance of other character being used .Once again Spiderverse proves what my original point was in a modern setting a ready made origin can make for great movie. They could have easily put Peter Parker story who is the "better character" with "better stories" and is the more popular character but movie works because of unique angle and background new character bring to mythos.