Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[Holt]

Right, similar to how they announced a Cyborg movie almost 5 years ago.

Cyborg was a movie they ain't ever had any intention of making; it was there so people wouldn't complain about them announcing solo movies for the other Justice League members.

Look at like this. Blue Beetle already has a writer. Cyborg was announced over 4 years ago and has no writer.

[Ascended]

There's not a hard rule saying that Rich Rider has to be white in a movie. Sam Alexander is just as ethnically generic a name as Rich Rider, though less Silver Agey with the lack of alliteration (and also, to be fair, less memorable).

I dunno, I feel like if Marvel cast a non-white person as Richard, you'd see a whole lot of complaining about how they didn't just use Sam instead.

Personally I dont care. Cast Rich as a white guy (probably an actor named Chris). Cast Rich as a black guy, or an Asian American, or whatever the hell you like. I usually don't give a damn. But I think a lot of people wouldn't care for an "actual" ethnic character like Sam being passed on in favor of the white guy, who you then cast with a non-white actor.

Or maybe I'm wrong and no one would cry foul. I dunno. But people will find anything to bitch about yknow?

[DragonsChi]

Cyborg was a movie they ain't ever had any intention of making; it was there so people wouldn't complain about them announcing solo movies for the other Justice League members.

Look at like this. Blue Beetle already has a writer. Cyborg was announced over 4 years ago and has no writer.

LOL

I knew Cyborg wasn't happening even back then but it didn't stop them from blow smock all down fans and Ray Fishers back.

Also, a writer doesn't mean anything. There are millions of unmade movies that had writers. I will believe it I see it.

[Holt]

Also, a writer doesn't mean anything.

People said the same thing about the Birds of Prey movie, and that's coming along fine as well. And that's after they beat Marvel to the punch with a female led superhero movie by two years.

The DCEU is full of garbage but WB is clearly smart enough to realize there's a dime to be made in the diversity game right now.

[Killerbee911]

Quite honestly this is one of the few times fans need to check themselves about the characters they like and keeping it real Nova isn't this impressively put together franchise. Not using Richard Rider isn't some big deal in way not using Peter Parker or Barry Allen isn't this some home run. In Cinematic universe( a clean start) or reboot you get a chance to fix flaws with character( or even comic universe) and big flaw with comics is lack of diversity if they use Nova in a movie they can fix it. A MCU Nova should be a composite Sam Alexander and Richard Rider. You take the better origin story, latino background and personality from Sam Alexander and you add that with endgame Richard Rider Nova stuff Annihilation/Thanos Imperative. As a purist or big fan character it might suck for you but reality picking choose the best elements will probably make for movie. Even characters with years history like Spiderman in Spiderman homecoming(which borrows generously from Miles) and Barry Allen in TV show and movie (which both borrow generously from Wally West personality) still take the best elements. Comic book world Richard Rider earn his place and Marvel not give him "Captain marvel" like push a couple years back was a mistake but in the movies with clean slate they should put best character on the screen.

[DragonsChi]

People said the same thing about the Birds of Prey movie, and that's coming along fine as well. And that's after they beat Marvel to the punch with a female led superhero movie by two years.

The DCEU is full of garbage but WB is clearly smart enough to realize there's a dime to be made in the diversity game right now.

Believe it when I see it. There are Sooooo many unmade scripts floating around Hollywood that until production actually begins it just a fun idea. Heck even when production begins things still don’t happen.

Im also pretty sure Fegie had/has plan with the MCU. They weren’t trying to beat anyone to anything. They were more focused on making good films and establishing the frame work of the MCU so that they could make bigger risk in the future on characters not as note worthy. Its pretty much a large reason why Marvel is winning and WB/DC are is almost ruining their star characters.

Quite honestly this is one of the few times fans need to check themselves about the characters they like and keeping it real Nova isn't this impressively put together franchise. Not using Richard Rider isn't some big deal in way not using Peter Parker or Barry Allen isn't this some home run. In Cinematic universe( a clean start) or reboot you get a chance to fix flaws with character( or even comic universe) and big flaw with comics is lack of diversity if they use Nova in a movie they can fix it. A MCU Nova should be a composite Sam Alexander and Richard Rider. You take the better origin story, latino background and personality from Sam Alexander and you add that with endgame Richard Rider Nova stuff Annihilation/Thanos Imperative. As a purist or big fan character it might suck for you but reality picking choose the best elements will probably make for movie. Even characters with years history like Spiderman in Spiderman homecoming(which borrows generously from Miles) and Barry Allen in TV show and movie (which both borrow generously from Wally West personality) still take the best elements. Comic book world Richard Rider earn his place and Marvel not give him "Captain marvel" like push a couple years back was a mistake but in the movies with clean slate they should put best character on the screen.

Well right now the best character is still Rich. His stories thus far is by far better than the Sam’s run. Not just Annihilation stuff. At least of what I have read of it this far.

In this case it be better just to race bend Rich. Do what DC did with Kyle Reyner by revealing he had latino heritage all along or something. Thats even if they need/want to go with diversity for that character.

[Killerbee911]

Well right now the best character is still Rich. His stories thus far is by far better than the Sam run. Not just Annihilation stuff. At least of what I have read of it.

In this case it be better just to race bend Rich. Do what DC did with Kyle Reyner by revealing he had latino heritage all along or something. Thats even if they need/want to go with diversity for that character.

"When the last surviving member of the planet Xandar's elite Nova Corps, Rhomann Dey, is dying, he selects New York high school student Richard Rider"

or

"A drunk father tells stories to his son of him being a space superhero, his teenage son doesn't believe his drunk janitor of father. One day his father goes missing and teenage finds a strange helmet and soon encounters Rocket Raccoon and Gamora who tells him that his father was really a hero. Two set out teach cocky young teenager to be a hero to stop invasion of Chitauri."

Sam Alexander origin story is much better suited for big screen .Also Sam arrogance and cockyness gives him arc that he has to learn from as well. In the comics agreed Richard Ryder overall years of stories make him a better character but in the movie world Sam Alexander has a ready made movie story. It would also be a small marketing nightmare to Racebend Richard Ryder when there is perfect fine latino character around. The MCU is narratively so far away from comic storylines all Richard Ryder history can't be told in the same manner and probably won't have access to New Warriors stuff and the character with more of the blank slate is more easier for outside writers to make adjustments. You use the ready made character for the big screen and pick and choose great elements for Richard Ryder and adapt them to Sam.

[Drops Of Venus]

I have no idea what the MCU will do, but Rider will never have it as hard as Mar-Vell simply because there is nothing stopping him from actually being pushed. Mar-Vell has become a taboo character, because everyone likes him, but no one can use him anymore. It's incredibly difficult to build a movie franchise around that, because they have to look at the bigger picture; which character can produce enough source material for future adaptions? In the Captain Marvel case, this person, right now, is Carol, not Mar. And that could be a huge reason why they went with her for the titular character, because it is an actual farmable IP right now, as opposed to the guy whose story is gonna inevitably get cut short because of his iconic, irreversible death. If anything, Marvel Comics is to blame for Mar-Vell not being a protagonist in a movie. Regardless, I still have hope we're gonna see him in the MCU in a good supporting role, somewhere, somehow. And who knows, if it's a breakout role, maybe Marvel Comics will finally bring him back for synergy ('cause you just know they would) and maybe, just maybe they'll finally break the cycle of Mar-Vell being forgotten.

Something else to consider: given the tenuous relationship between the movie side of Marvel and the TV side of Marvel, and that Sam Alexander was created by Jeph Loeb who runs the Marvel TV side (albeit, based on his son who'd sadly passed away), I could see Rich becoming the movie Nova just as another slight against the TV side and, by extension, Ike Permutter.

Does it have to be a slight, though? It might even be the polite thing to do if they want to leave Sam in the hands of Loeb out of respect for his son's memory. I think Loeb would probably be very interested in being involved in a live action adaption of Sam Alexander, and since they have two Novas, Marvel Studios wouldn't have a problem with letting this one character go. So yeah, maybe we're just getting Rich for the movies and Sam for TV because of that.

I wouldn't be so certain that there would be no mention or appearance of Rich Rider if a Sam Alexander lead Nova film is made. There is no mention of Mar-Vell yet in Captain Marvel but we don't know for certain if he is completely absent.

Marvel has acknowledged the original incarnations of many of their legacy heroes in live action.

Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider appeared alongside Reyes version in Agents Of Shield. Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne appear in the Ant-Man and Wasp franchise. The Original Guardians appear in the Guardians of The Galaxy movies as Ravanger Captains that were once rag tag outlaw heroes like the Star-Lord team. Iron Fist was even setting up Orson Randall for the third season that won't happen.

Exactly. I don't get why people get all doom and gloom when it comes to Mar-Vell in the MCU. History shows us Marvel IS interested in honoring the original characters in one way or another, so it's way too soon to rule him out of that universe, specially when the Captain Marvel mythology has JUST begun to be explored. There's a lot of ground to cover.

[DragonsChi]

"When the last surviving member of the planet Xandar's elite Nova Corps, Rhomann Dey, is dying, he selects New York high school student Richard Rider"

or

"A drunk father tells stories to his son of him being a space superhero, his teenage son doesn't believe his drunk janitor of father. One day his father goes missing and teenage finds a strange helmet and soon encounters Rocket Raccoon and Gamora who tells him that his father was really a hero. Two set out teach cocky young teenager to be a hero to stop invasion of Chitauri."

Sam Alexander origin story is much better suited for big screen .Also Sam arrogance and cockyness gives him arc that he has to learn from as well. In the comics agreed Richard Ryder overall years of stories make him a better character but in the movie world Sam Alexander has a ready made movie story. It would also be a small marketing nightmare to Racebend Richard Ryder when there is perfect fine latino character around. The MCU is narratively so far away from comic storylines all Richard Ryder history can't be told in the same manner and probably won't have access to New Warriors stuff and the character with more of the blank slate is more easier for outside writers to make adjustments. You use the ready made character for the big screen and pick and choose great elements for Richard Ryder and adapt them to Sam.

You way over simplified it to suit your narrative there. You went over a single issue with Rich and went over a almost 2 story arch's with Sam.

There was a lot going on with Nova Rich between getting his powers, fighting super villains and being introduced to other characters in the MU that happen in his first arch. Then you have all the stories that came after when he was just getting his footing as a hero.

Most of Sam's stories amount to him whining and really bad humor. And this is coming from a guy who wanted to like Sam Alexander. I started reading his stories first, assuming that I would probably enjoy him more but I was wrong. Instead of giving up I went to Rich (mostly because I was already trying to get through more of the older Marvel stuff. Otherwise I would have ditched the whole concept) Rich has more depth to him as a character. Sam story, characterization, and even supporting cast reads like it can be plastered onto any other character at any moment in time.

I really don't think that it will be a problem at all if Marvel cast the right actor for the job who happens to be Latino and be Richard Ryder. Most of what Sam has put out is not worth even being in a movie.

However, now that you wrote out Sam's origin I'm starting to think why would the MCU have another angsty male, single parented teen, in need of mentoring from a popular established character, in it's line up when they are already doing that with Spider-Man? Hmmm....Maybe Rich really is fine.

[mace11]

and big flaw with comics is lack of diversity

I disagree with is.

The comics do have alot diversity,dc,image,marvel,idw,lion forge etc..
When it comes to cartoons,games and live action tv they are ahead of comicbooks movies of course.
Of course american comicbooks movies like marvel and dc do have diversity but not like the comics,cartoons,games and live action shows.

[ed2962]

I disagree with is.

The comics do have alot diversity,dc,image,marvel,idw,lion forge etc..
When it comes to cartoons,games and live action tv they are ahead of comicbooks movies of course.
Of course american comicbooks movies like marvel and dc do have diversity but not like the comics,cartoons,games and live action shows.

Yeah, I'd almost agree that Sam has a better chance at being the lead if it were a Nova TV show rather than a theatrical movie.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I'd almost agree that Sam has a better chance at being the lead if it were a Nova TV show rather than a theatrical movie.

I think Sam is really well designed for a tv show, actually. The daddy issues, the family drama......its got CW written all over it.

Richard feels better suited for film. His post-Annihilation status quo gave him a great "lone space sheriff" vibe that would translate to film easily.

If Marvel ever makes a Nova movie, they'll obviously borrow what they want from both characters and we'll see some fusion between them, just like we see with Parker having some of Miles' life and Carol serving in the Kree military instead of Mar-Vell. But exactly what will get borrowed, and who it'll be given to, will depend on the story Marvel wants to tell. Both Sam and Richard could carry a movie; it just depends on the kind of movie Marvel will want to tell with Nova.

[Ascended]

Quite honestly this is one of the few times fans need to check themselves about the characters they like and keeping it real Nova isn't this impressively put together franchise.

It's very true that someone's personal preference shouldn't color their perceptions. But to that end, Sam doesn't have any real advantage over Richard. Nothing about either of their stories says "turn me into a movie!" more than the other.

Sam discovering his father's helmet and and taking that mantle up is a good movie. Richard surviving the destruction of Xanadar and being the only space cop left in space? That's a good movie too. It's just a different kind of movie. Sam's first arc would make a decent film. Richard's first post-Annihilation arc would too. I think Richard has the more interesting setting and toys (Worldmind!), while Sam has the more interesting supporting cast.

Sam would basically be "Spider-Man in space" while Richard would basically be "Captain America as the last soldier alive in space." Which one will stand out more in the MCU? Marvel Studios doesn't have a lot of teenaged heroes, but it also doesn't have a lot of cosmic stuff either, and their one big cosmic IP only has one movie left, assuming GotG-3 gets made at all. Of course, there's Captain Marvel too, but it's hard to say whether that's going to be a cosmic franchise or not. Carol's been in space but that doesn't mean her movie/s are going to stay there. Time will tell whether she stays in the stars or stays home. If the MCU does use Carol as a cosmic property, then I think that increases the odds of them using Sam if/when they make a Nova film, but we don't know what their plans for Carol are yet, beyond her coming home to slap Thanos around.

[DevilBat66]

I like Rich better by far but they'll go with Sam Alexander.

[KOSLOX]

I think Sam's got the better origin story so I'd go with him.