Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[Killerbee911]

And to add if someone hasn't even bothered to read the pre-2006 stories of Richard Rider to comment, why would I take the time to prove to you that they are good? Grab $5 get a Marvel Unlimited Sub and do your own research

You are not helping your cause I have read Early Nova, You keep the missing point Early Richard Rider is kinda weak just solid stuff comic book nothing better than Sam stuff .It took them years to build Ryder into something awesome and not meh. I wasn't asking to prove they are good I knew you can't pull story-line worth making a movie about from the early years. I was asking what his "Lethal Protectors" Venom, Spiderman, F4 Origins, I am asking what is his "God loves man Kills","Phoenix Saga"etc. There is not some omg goodness story to be told with Richard.

If we are taking about Annihilation, Annihilation conquest, Thanos Imperative. Hell yeah use Richard Ryder it is not even close but those are big stories which need set up and will be vastly different in the MCU. There is no great Ryder Nova stories to get you the awesome stuff and starting at the awesome stuff without right set up makes less good (see Thor Ragnarok use Planet Hulk). Just because you keep saying Rider is better doesn't actually mean it is truth and comic fans always think the older stuff is better.Richard Rider in his prime solo Nova had about 36 issues, Sam Alexander the Nova "who nobody likes" had 32 issue run(they had issue 1 the next month) I will keep saying Nova isn't some sacred ground of franchise it is not even a lock to get made into a movie. Sam has good origin for a movie and great set up to build from, Richard has amazing later stories and the solution is pretty obvious. Just saying

I really, really can't believe that in the age of televised gaming and stuff like twitch The Last Starfighter still hasn't been remade. Marvel has a chance to grab that and roll it into Nova.
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The Last Starfighter is has right dispute so nobody can really do anything with it.

[DragonsChi]

You are not helping your cause I have read Early Nova, You keep the missing point Early Richard Rider is kinda weak just solid stuff comic book nothing better than Sam stuff .It took them years to build him into something awesome. I wasn't asking to prove they are good I knew you can't pull story-line worth making a movie about from the early years. I was asking what his "Lethal Protectors" Venom, Spiderman, F4 Origins, I am asking what is his "God loves man Kills","Phoenix Saga"etc. There is not some omg goodness story to be told with Richard.

If we are taking about Annihilation, Annihilation conquest, Thanos Imperative. Hell yeah use Richard Ryder it is not even close but those are big stories which need set up and will be vastly different in the MCU. There is no great Nova stories to get you the awesome stuff and starting at the awesome stuff without right set up makes less good (see Thor Ragnarok use Planet Hulk). Just because you keep saying Rider is better doesn't actually mean it is truth and comic fans always think the older stuff is better.Richard Rider in his prime solo Nova had about 36 issues, Sam Alexander the Nova "who nobody likes" had 32 issue run I will keep saying Nova isn't some sacred ground of franchise it is not even a lock to get made into a movie. Sam has good origin for a movie and great set up to build from, Richard has amazing later stories and the solution is pretty obvious. Just saying

...I'm sorry but it seems that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. I might be misunderstanding you but it sounds like you are saying that Rich doesn't have any great stories that make him memorable, while also acknowledging Annihilation, but at the same time saying Sam doesn't have any stories that make him rememberable at all.

Is that right? Do you see the flaw there...

Edit:

I would also add that his stories with foe's like the Sphinx and Corrupter are there to use. While other stories with the New Warriors, Peter Parker and the Shiar are all great stories to play with as well. All are stories that are before 2006. His origin is fine how it is for a movie as well. Sam's is not decidedly better due to the issues with his father. Rich allows you to get into the thick of things while Sam's has you wading through teenage drama. One isn't better then other in the case of origins.

[Killerbee911]

...I'm sorry but it seems that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth here. I might be misunderstanding you but it sounds like you are saying that Rich doesn't have any great stories that make him memorable, while also acknowledging Annihilation, but at the same time saying Sam doesn't have any stories that make him rememberable at all.

Is that right? Do you see the flaw there...

Sam has bunch of mediocre stories but his origin( isn't a cheesy green lantern knock off) and gives a franchise great jumping off point in which you can go several directions with

Richard Rider has bunch of mediocre stories,then all of sudden the light bulb went on at Marvel how to use the character and later they told some good stories with stories I keep on mentioning

Those great stories will be vastly changed in the MCU to point where they are basically new stories and very different stories,Richard holds no inherent advantage of Sam in the movie world. The things that make him special his new warriors years and years of connection with other space/cosmic heroes won't be around because the MCU is going a different direction from the comics. Sam is a better base to build from in the MCU than Richard better origin and supporting cast.

[Holt]

Disagree. It takes zero explaining to have Rich show up as Hispanic or Latino and to keep the story moving.

Or to just use the Nova who is already Latino.

[DragonsChi]

Sam has bunch of mediocre stories but his origin( isn't a cheesy green lantern knock off) and gives a franchise great jumping off point in which you can several directions

Richard Rider has bunch of mediocre stories,then all of sudden the light bulb went on at Marvel how to use the character and later they told some good stories with stories I keep on mentioning

Those great stories will be vastly changed in the MCU to point where they are basically new stories and very different stories,Richard holds no inherent advantage of Sam in the movie world. The things that make him special his new warriors and years of connection with other space/cosmic heroes won't be around because the MCU is going a different direction from the comics. Sam is a better base to build from in the MCU than Richard better origin better and supporting cast.

This is where the disconnect is. You are stating all of this as if it is fact but it isn't. Like the idea of his connections....Nova has more real and arguably more important connections then Sam does at this point. The biggest of which being Peter Parker. There are still characters around in the current state of the MCU that Rich has a connection to. Not that even matters with the way they are doing the films.

Some characters will still be there while others won't but the MCU could do what they have been doing this whole time and have other characters fill those roles.

While also the premise that you are standing on that Sam is better to build off of is faulty. It's already been admitted that Sam's has 0 stories that make him marketable. Most of his current prominent connections (Members of the Champions) probably will never be in the current MCU and if they do it will be multiple years down the road. So the connection thing doesn't really fly. His origin is just as generic as any other teen drama with daddy issues. So that's gone too.

I'm glad I made this thread. It really could go either thing at this point. However, I do believe the favor is on Rich side. Thank you for discussing it. Though I disagree with you I am a bit more hopeful.

[Ascended]

Why do you guys think it matters what the comics have done? How many great Scott Lang stories were out there before Paul Rudd took the role? How popular were the GotG before James Gunn?

The Studio doesn't give a sh*t about any of that, and they shouldn't. They can (and have) made great films out of Z-list characters no comic fan ever thought about seeing in a movie, much less actually *wanted* to have made. If Marvel decides to make a Nova film, they can use whoever they want and make it work, regardless of the character's publication history.

They'll almost certainly pull elements from both Sam and Rich anyway.

[Holt]

Why do you guys think it matters what the comics have done? How many great Scott Lang stories were out there before Paul Rudd took the role? How popular were the GotG before James Gunn?

The Studio doesn't give a sh*t about any of that, and they shouldn't. They can (and have) made great films out of Z-list characters no comic fan ever thought about seeing in a movie, much less actually *wanted* to have made. If Marvel decides to make a Nova film, they can use whoever they want and make it work, regardless of the character's publication history.

They'll almost certainly pull elements from both Sam and Rich anyway.

I was gonna say the same thing. These exact same debates were had when it was rumored Ant-Man would be about Scott Lang, not Hank Pym. "But they can't use Scott! Hank is the iconic Ant-Man! All the iconic stories about him! It'll definitely be Hank!"

[DragonsChi]

I was gonna say the same thing. These exact same debates were had when it was rumored Ant-Man would be about Scott Lang, not Hank Pym. "But they can't use Scott! Hank is the iconic Ant-Man! All the iconic stories about him! It'll definitely be Hank!"

Only reason why I even care is because I don't want what happen to Hank in the comics to end up happening to Rich.

When Ant-Man was announced it made more sense to me for them to use Lang. Due to the Yellow Jacket slap Pym has always been damaged goods unfortunately. It's not the same case with the Nova's.

I'm convinced now that it really could go either way. I'm just hoping they use Rich so we can get more stories with him in the future and he won't be shelved in a more permeant way. Similar to how Hank is completely off the board while still being merged with one of the evilest villains in the Marvel Universe.

[Killerbee911]

This is where the disconnect is. You are stating all of this as if it is fact but it isn't. Like the idea of his connections....Nova has more real and arguably more important connections then Sam does at this point. The biggest of which being Peter Parker. There are still characters around in the current state of the MCU that Rich has a connection to. Not that even matters with the way they are doing the films.
.

- So you aren't get Peter parker to show up in Nova movie(the 2 studio thing) why would Sony let them put Spiderman in a lesser movie than Avengers,You probably aren't GoG either.You aren't getting new warriors who they shot a plot for tv series,You aren't getting Ronan the accuser, Beta ray bill,You aren't getting Thanos, probably not getting Annihilus before FF.

Sam doesn't need any champions in his movies(but Kamala Khan will be in the MCU),in fact he works with very little connection to marvel stuff. That is pretty much the whole point of being a better base they can do pretty much anything they want for from him. Yeah his origin is generic small town kid who hasn't been out his town discover he is hero,It is generic but it works and that teen angst drama stuff is been selling movies for ages. Once again you are not disapproving anything just confirming why it works. It is easy an easy three act movie

Nova 1

- First act generic teen angst stuff,discover he is hero
- Second act trains to become hero,but something makes him give up
- Third act he has to step up become a hero and fight of the alien invasion

Nova 2

-First act discover his father is alive and teen angst stuff,set out to go save him
- Second act discover that Black Nova are enemies and his father disappoints him
-Third act Sam leads a rag tag band of Nova against the Black Novas in big fight ,His father decides to be hero again sacrifices himself

It is not very hard,It is generic stuff but it works, And then you just pull bits from lore and fit in Marvel characters where you can.

[DragonsChi]

- So you aren't get Peter parker to show up in Nova movie(the 2 studio thing) why would Sony let them put Spiderman in a lesser movie than Avengers,You probably aren't GoG either.You aren't getting new warriors who they shot a plot for tv series,You aren't getting Ronan the accuser, Beta ray bill,You aren't getting Thanos, probably not getting Annihilus before FF.

Sam doesn't need any champions in his movies(but Kamala Khan will be in the MCU),in fact he works with very little connection to marvel stuff. That is pretty much the whole point of being a better base they can do pretty much anything they want for from him. Yeah his origin is generic small town kid who hasn't been out his town discover he is hero,It is generic but it works and that teen angst drama stuff is been selling movies for ages. Once again you are not disapproving anything just confirming why it works. It is easy an easy three act movie

Nova 1

- First act generic teen angst stuff,discover he is hero
- Second act trains to become hero,but something makes him give up
- Third act he has to step up become a hero and fight of the alien invasion

Nova 2

-First act discover his father is alive and teen angst stuff,set out to go save him
- Second act discover that Black Nova are enemies and his father disappoints him
-Third act Sam leads a rag tag band of Nova against the Black Novas in big fight ,His father decides to be hero again sacrifices himself

It is not very hard,It is generic stuff but it works, And then you just pull bits from lore and fit in Marvel characters where you can.

You're arguing in circles at this point.

Everything you say I can pretty much counter it with same thing with Rich's storyline's. Which you seem to know little about.

My reason for making this thread was to see was basically to see if there was any hope at all for Rich to star in his own film. There is. To continue to argue with you over who prefers who would be a large waste of time that would end with no real winner.

The thread can continue on if people want to discuss further. However, there is no need to quote me in looking for a response since my answers at this point will remain the same.

Thank you all again for helping me come to a conclusion on this. It has been very enlightening.

[Ascended]

There's definitely solid odds of a Nova movie featuring Richard. It's just very far from a sure thing.

I think rather than looking at the characters, we should look at what genres/styles/locations they'd bring to the table that the MCU doesn't have, is about to lose with the closing of other franchises, or won't have soon with the start of new ones.

Rich would likely spend most, if not all, of his time in space. Sam would likely spend only half his time in space.

I figure the deciding factors are Captain Marvel and GotG. Where is Carol's franchise going to go? If she's going to do the "one foot on earth, one foot in space" thing, like she's been doing in the comics for the last few years, then Sam is actually somewhat redundant to that. But if they're going to keep Carol mostly in space then it'd be Richard who's not filling a unique role. We can't really say where Carol is going to fall here, since we've only got a couple trailers and those can be misleading and her franchise going beyond the first film (if it gets past that, y'never know!) could switch things up once her "origin" story is finished (just like how Steve didn't stay in WWII after his first film).

The Guardians' fates are up in the air as well. But even if Disney does finish the trilogy, they'll want something to replace it with once that's done. That's a mark in Rich's favor I think. The Guardians are Marvel's "all in space" franchise, and they're down to one last movie, if they get even that much (Im sure they will, Disney will just wait a minute for the stink of Gunn's scandal to wear off). This of course is assuming that Marvel doesn't go beyond the trilogy model, but looking at their history I dont think they're inclined to do so. Maybe Hemsworth will talk them into a fourth Thor film, but that'd be an exception to the precedent only.

The Eternals feel like a Thor replacement; more "science fantasy" than "science fiction" and probably only a minor consideration as far as Nova goes.

[Zero Hunter]

I say just go for broke and piss everyone off and combine the two into one. Samuel Ryder a latino man in his early 20's. Pick and choose the best bits of both.

[Panic]

I say just go for broke and piss everyone off and combine the two into one. Samuel Ryder a latino man in his early 20's. Pick and choose the best bits of both.

Sam could be short for Samantha. Go go gender switch!

[KOSLOX]

Sam could be short for Samantha. Go go gender switch!

Or use the Nova family from Secret Wars.

[Cap808]

I've been praying that a MCU Nova will be Richard...