Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[DragonsChi]

There's definitely solid odds of a Nova movie featuring Richard. It's just very far from a sure thing.

I think rather than looking at the characters, we should look at what genres/styles/locations they'd bring to the table that the MCU doesn't have, is about to lose with the closing of other franchises, or won't have soon with the start of new ones.

Rich would likely spend most, if not all, of his time in space. Sam would likely spend only half his time in space.

I figure the deciding factors are Captain Marvel and GotG. Where is Carol's franchise going to go? If she's going to do the "one foot on earth, one foot in space" thing, like she's been doing in the comics for the last few years, then Sam is actually somewhat redundant to that. But if they're going to keep Carol mostly in space then it'd be Richard who's not filling a unique role. We can't really say where Carol is going to fall here, since we've only got a couple trailers and those can be misleading and her franchise going beyond the first film (if it gets past that, y'never know!) could switch things up once her "origin" story is finished (just like how Steve didn't stay in WWII after his first film).

The Guardians' fates are up in the air as well. But even if Disney does finish the trilogy, they'll want something to replace it with once that's done. That's a mark in Rich's favor I think. The Guardians are Marvel's "all in space" franchise, and they're down to one last movie, if they get even that much (Im sure they will, Disney will just wait a minute for the stink of Gunn's scandal to wear off). This of course is assuming that Marvel doesn't go beyond the trilogy model, but looking at their history I dont think they're inclined to do so. Maybe Hemsworth will talk them into a fourth Thor film, but that'd be an exception to the precedent only.

The Eternals feel like a Thor replacement; more "science fantasy" than "science fiction" and probably only a minor consideration as far as Nova goes.

Everything you said here just makes me more hopeful for Richard. Because like I mentioned before I realized it can go either way.

Off the bat it's clear that the Space stuff is all Rich. He dominates there. But even the earth stuff...Rich did a better job with that then Sam. However, even if that does not weigh in the decision you still can turn your reasoning, as on point that it may be in this case, on its head.

Example: Carol's being used in space more in the MCU may limit Rich's use in space in the MCU. However, Spiderman's use as the high school teen hero learning the ropes as well as a Ms. Marvel film that will do the same? Having another character in that role, who isn't even all that good at it, may be a little much. Giving Rich more of a shot.

Anyway, you turn it there is a fight for the other character. Only difference being Rich's stories are admittedly better and it seems that Rich was more well loved than the other character. My only hope is that when it comes time to make the final call "the powers at be" will make the discussion based on quality and fan dedication.

Like I said before Sam Alexander as a character will live on regardless. If Richard Rider isn't the star of the Nova movie it will be a death sentence just based on how Marvel is currently run.

In short I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and do my part to support Rich until then.

[phantom1592]

Off the bat it's clear that the Space stuff is all Rich. He dominates there. But even the earth stuff...Rich did a better job with that then Sam. However, even if that does not weigh in the decision you still can turn your reasoning, as on point that it may be in this case on its head. .

Ironically I never really associate Nova with Space. Like I said, I was first introduced to him on the New Warriors when Xandar was destroyed and the Corps was non-existent. He was 100% earth-bound. Looking back at a bunch of his earlier runs and most of those covers ALSO had him as earth based fighting super-villains...

I'll admit I thought it bizarre when they brought back Xandar and the Nova corps for Annihilation to instantly destroy it again making him the only one... but if they kept him on earth I'd be fine with it. Same with Darkhawk. His amulet may have come from space... but he was always an earth-bound kid trying to support/protect his family, not flying around to other planets.

[DragonsChi]

Ironically I never really associate Nova with Space. Like I said, I was first introduced to him on the New Warriors when Xandar was destroyed and the Corps was non-existent. He was 100% earth-bound. Looking back at a bunch of his earlier runs and most of those covers ALSO had him as earth based fighting super-villains...

I'll admit I thought it bizarre when they brought back Xandar and the Nova corps for Annihilation to instantly destroy it again making him the only one... but if they kept him on earth I'd be fine with it. Same with Darkhawk. His amulet may have come from space... but he was always an earth-bound kid trying to support/protect his family, not flying around to other planets.

I think a healthy balance of both in comics is best overall for the Nova concept. No reason to lock a character in a singular role when there is so much potential in both avenues. Right?

But yes I agree. Rich was mostly an Earth base hero at first and people actually did enjoy that side of him, even before the Annilation stuff.

[Ascended]

My only hope is that when it comes time to make the final call "the powers at be" will make the discussion based on quality and fan dedication.

In short I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and do my part to support Rich until then.

I doubt fan dedication plays into the Studio's decisions very much. If every single comic book fan did *not* go to a movie, the box office would never notice the loss. We're a very small niche group and the films don't need our support. It's good to have, because we're loud and vocal and we complain on public forums, so we can impact the release of a movie if we try really hard (lookin' at you, Justice League!) but it usually takes a lot of effort and a lot of very angry comic fans for us to influence a film's box office on any level. And Nova doesn't have enough fans to make a dent anyway. And Marvel Studios can do whatever the hell they want at this point, they've got so much goodwill built up with audiences.

That said, I would expect the Studio to look at these characters and what has made them endure. Because the things we love about them are the things that the general audience will love about them. So the fact that Richard has been around as long as he has been and has such a loyal following definitely helps his chances.

Of course, it seems Sam has a loyal following too. And while he doesn't have as deep a library of stories, that doesn't matter. The Studio can take stories from Richard's history and apply them to Sam's movie. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a Nova story or Nova villain; the Netflix Defenders have borrowed heavily from Daredevil's rogues gallery because Jessica and Iron Fist don't have as many good villains as Murdock does.

Again, it could be Rich or it could be Sam, it will just depend on what kind of movie Marvel wants to make. But definitely don't count Rich out yet.

Assuming, of course, that a Nova movie does get made in the first place. We've had rumors for years and a sound bite about Fiege "looking at" the property which means nothing; the Studio "looks at" lots of properties and decides not to pursue them.

Also, how do you support Rich these days? Far as I know, he's not in any books?

[DragonsChi]

I think fan's buying power can play a large role in what happens and what doesn't. In truth Nova is one of the few Marvel characters that actually has a website dedicated to him. A website that continually puts out full fan fiction comics of Rich Rider. (Something I'm recently discovering. http://www.novaprimepage.com/619.asp)

I do believe with enough Visible support things can happen. Are the chance "slim to none" no doubt about it. But nothing worth doing/having is ever really easy is it. So I would never count out a fan base. Studios need want to make money that is all they care about. If they have people saying they will give to them then that will be the end of it.

How do you support a character? In particular Rich? That's Easy. There are several ways. Be on the look out for things to come. Maybe not here but in general.

[Digifiend]

Also, how do you support Rich these days? Far as I know, he's not in any books?

He was in Infinity Countdown: Darkhawk and it appears that he will be in Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Ascended]

He was in Infinity Countdown: Darkhawk and it appears that he will be in Guardians of the Galaxy.

Over on the "who's in the new GotG" thread (or whatever it's called) they're saying that Richard didn't make the cut. They had that big promo image where they revealed a character or two at a time, and he was on that, but apparently only six of those dozen characters are actually on the roster, and Rich isn't one of them.

Didnt know he was in Darkhawk though. Thanks for letting me know!

[Holt]

I think fan's buying power can play a large role in what happens and what doesn't.

I'll again refer people to the Ant-Man situation and how from my time online, the fan sentiment universally favored Hank Pym and had nothing but disdain for Scott Lang (a character who'd never even had his own ongoing series). There was similar outrage and controversy when it was revealed that Hank would not be in Age of Ultron, and that Tony would be the one who built Ultron instead. That didn't matter at the end of the day because Edgar Wright's pitch was about Scott, and was what the studio ended up going with. If they have a reason for wanting to use a Nova other than Rich, the fan sentiment isn't gonna matter to them.

As Ascended mentioned, we comic fans are a small niche of the overall audience, and any sort of controversy or boycotts over a movie starring Sam instead of Rich would likely amount to a tempest in a teacup.

[DragonsChi]

I'll again refer people to the Ant-Man situation and how from my time online, the fan sentiment universally favored Hank Pym and had nothing but disdain for Scott Lang (a character who'd never even had his own ongoing series). There was similar outrage and controversy when it was revealed that Hank would not be in Age of Ultron, and that Tony would be the one who built Ultron instead. That didn't matter at the end of the day because Edgar Wright's pitch was about Scott, and was what the studio ended up going with. If they have a reason for wanting to use a Nova other than Rich, the fan sentiment isn't gonna matter to them.

As Ascended mentioned, we comic fans are a small niche of the overall audience, and any sort of controversy or boycotts over a movie starring Sam instead of Rich would likely amount to a tempest in a teacup.

Eh, like I said before Hank was never going to happen. Those who thought he was were fooling themselves. Hank never recovered from smacking his wife. He will probably forever be that guy. Neither Nova has that weight to carry so we will see.

Besides I that I dont particuarly subscribe to negative thinking and can’t do. So we will see.

[skyvolt2000]

I think fan's buying power can play a large role in what happens and what doesn't. In truth Nova is one of the few Marvel characters that actually has a website dedicated to him. A website that continually puts out full fan fiction comics of Rich Rider. (Something I'm recently discovering. http://www.novaprimepage.com/619.asp)

Where was that buying power for Static? Blade? They did not have books when Static got a cartoon show or the first Blade movie came out.

Neither did Antman.
Rocket Raccoon has a mini in 1985. He didn't have a solo when GOTG came out.

John Stewart was out of the game when Justice League cartoon started.
Vixen was doing nothing in comics before Justice League Unlimited or her CW Show. We won't even bring up the cast of DC Legends or Young Justice.
Excluding Cyborg-Dc's POC population RARELY appears in both medias.

Until Thor 2-whoever was in the film matched who was in the comic book. If you saw Storm in a movie-she was the same in the comic.

Fan buying power has NO say in what gets made in a movie or tv series. That still falls on MARVEL or whoever does that.
Look at Black Lightning. Black Vulcan was in Superfriends for a REASON.

[Holt]

Eh, like I said before Hank was never going to happen.

Because of outside influences, just as there'd be if they chose to go with Sam for reasons of diversity or other factors.

[DragonsChi]

Because of outside influences, just as there'd be if they chose to go with Sam for reasons of diversity or other factors.

They didn't use Pie when Iron Fist came out. Nor did they use Rhodey with Iron Man. Jane for Thor (she was Thor once or twice shortly before the movie came out).

It be easy to just reveal Rich has a diverse background and still use him. Happen to Kyle Rayner, Iceman, and quiet few others.

Sam may be used but there is no guarantee. Rich has a shot.

[Holt]

They didn't use Pie when Iron Fist came out. Nor did they use Rhodey with Iron Man. Jane for Thor (she was Thor once or twice shortly before the movie came out).

None of which were made when the franchise was refocused on injecting more diversity into the films (in fact Pei hadn't even become Iron Fist when the show was in the works), so not really relevant to this conversation.

It be easy to just reveal Rich has a diverse background and still use him. Happen to Kyle Rayner, Iceman, and quiet few others.

Or just use the existing diverse Nova they already have since it's far easier. Happened when they used John Stewart as the GL in the Justice League TV show and quite a few others.

[DragonsChi]

None of which were made when the franchise was refocused on injecting more diversity into the films (in fact Pei hadn't even become Iron Fist when the show was in the works), so not really relevant to this conversation.



Or just use the existing diverse Nova they already have since it's far easier. Happened when they used John Stewart as the GL in the Justice League TV show and quite a few others.

LOL Iron Fist was technically in "development" for 10 years before the TV show as even a possibility. Pei was around for a whole year before they even officially hired their Show runner and almost two years before the show finished production to air. If they wanted Pei they could have used her.


And yet they didn't use John in the GL movie when he was the clear choice. Essh see this is what I'm talking about. This whole conversation could run in circles forever with the two Nova's.

So my fingers are firmly crossed and I'm done.This back in forth has become a pissing contest that I rather not be trapped in.

[Ascended]

Or just use the existing diverse Nova they already have since it's far easier. Happened when they used John Stewart as the GL in the Justice League TV show and quite a few others.

Man, I think race-bending Rich instead of just using Sam would generate a ton of hate. And not just from comic fans, but from several corners. Can you imagine the backlash if Marvel "black-faced" a white guy, when they had a person of color already established in the exact same heroic role?

I think that could be a stumbling block that even Marvel would trip over.

I remember when we were having this debate about Spidey, and if the MCU should use Parker or introduce Miles. The suggestion of race-bending Parker instead of using Miles actively pissed off a lot of people, and I don't recall there being much, if any, support for the idea.

Skipping a PoC, which is rare enough in this genre, just to race-bend a white guy.......yeah I dont see that ending well, honestly.