Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[DragonsChi]

Only reason I think race bending could work here is due to Sam already looking like a little white boy in the comics and certain branches of latino’s appear caucasian. Even Rich’s father latest depiction could be that of a latino the way he has been drawn. If it wasnt a feasable option I personally wouldn’t suggest it.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think both is a possibility.

Marvel movies, at their core, at genre movies with superhero protagonists. Ant-man a heist movie (despite protests otherwise), Winter Soldier a spy thriller, etc.

Rich and Sam could easily be a buddy cop movie. Sam the young partner, Rich the grizzled yet...in space!

[Ascended]

Only reason I think race bending could work here is due to Sam already looking like a little white boy in the comics and certain branches of latino’s appear caucasian. Even Rich’s father latest depiction could be that of a latino the way he has been drawn. If it wasnt a feasable option I personally wouldn’t suggest it.

Oh, Rich *could* have some Hispanic ethnicity in his background, sure. I just think trying to make that work from a "diversity checklist" perspective won't fly with fans when there's an actual Latino character already wearing a helmet. Race bending Rich for a movie instead of just using the PoC they already have in the role? People would get pretty pissed over that, I suspect.

I dunno, maybe Im wrong and no one would care. But Im willing to bet it'd piss off a sizable segment of folks. Can't you see the headlines? "MCU race-bends white guy because authentic PoC character isn't good enough!"

Rich and Sam could easily be a buddy cop movie. Sam the young partner, Rich the grizzled yet...in space!

That's what I've said. A new genre for the MCU to toy with and it keeps all the fans happy (not that we matter, but still).

[skyvolt2000]

Oh, Rich *could* have some Hispanic ethnicity in his background, sure. I just think trying to make that work from a "diversity checklist" perspective won't fly with fans when there's an actual Latino character already wearing a helmet. Race bending Rich for a movie instead of just using the PoC they already have in the role? People would get pretty pissed over that, I suspect.

I dunno, maybe Im wrong and no one would care. But Im willing to bet it'd piss off a sizable segment of folks. Can't you see the headlines? "MCU race-bends white guy because authentic PoC character isn't good enough!"

YES they would especially since the established Latino is active in Marvel.

Now there is nothing stopping Rich and Sam from being family. We got old Dr Fate and new Arab Dr Fate as family.

Why can't Rich be Nova already and something happens and his cousin/nephew or relative Sam dons the helmet or a new helmet.

[DragonsChi]

Oh, Rich *could* have some Hispanic ethnicity in his background, sure. I just think trying to make that work from a "diversity checklist" perspective won't fly with fans when there's an actual Latino character already wearing a helmet. Race bending Rich for a movie instead of just using the PoC they already have in the role? People would get pretty pissed over that, I suspect.

I dunno, maybe Im wrong and no one would care. But Im willing to bet it'd piss off a sizable segment of folks. Can't you see the headlines? "MCU race-bends white guy because authentic PoC character isn't good enough!"

At this point the only reason to use Sam would be due to his race, that is barely represented anyway, though. So it would pretty much be the same thing. I mean it seems pretty much unanimous that Rich has better stories, Stronger connections to the core Marvel Universe, and is more enjoyable to read about. The only reason to use Sam would be his race. So why use the weaker product when you have a stronger one available.

Whole process would be a rather quick fix. Marvel could write a story similar to which they have done with Carol Danvers where a relative comes out of the wood work mention that they are from X along with one of his parents, preferably his father since he looks the part, and then sprinkle some superhero stuff on it. Do it a few months before the movie comes out and boom Marvel once again wipes over a problem. Nothing about Rich would really change outside of readers learning more about his lineage and on the plus side the readers who actually like the character now are ensured that he will stick around.

Sounds like a Win/Win to me. Doubt non-comic fans would even notice. You literally would have to tell them that Sam is suppose to be Latino for them to even be able to tell he is Latino anyone.

[Holt]

LOL Iron Fist was technically in "development" for 10 years before the TV show as even a possibility. Pei was around for a whole year before they even officially hired their Show runner and almost two years before the show finished production to air.

She wasn't Iron Fist and as mentioned, the diversity push is more recent.

And yet they didn't use John in the GL movie when he was the clear choice.

And I'm pretty sure that's why the reboot is using John and Hal after the first one tanked, which regardless, had pretty much nothing to do with my initial statement. I'm kinda puzzled as to why you'd start a thread asking a question and then get super upset and combative when people answer it.

Whole process would be a rather quick fix.

The thing you keep not wanting to acknowledge is it's an unnecessary fix when Sam is sitting right there. If they want a POC as Nova there's literally no reason to jump through hoops like that to retcon Richard Rider into being half Mexican or whatever you keep suggesting.

You literally would have to tell them that Sam is suppose to be Latino for them to even be able to tell he is Latino anyone.

That would be very obvious once an actual actor was cast as him.

[DragonsChi]

I'm kinda puzzled as to why you'd start a thread asking a question and then get super upset and combative when people answer it.

But I'm not. If two posters are just going back and forth literally saying the same thing in different ways the conversation is pretty much done. All is really happening is that they are waiting to see who caves first. I'm simply letting you or whoever else have the pyrrhic victory for the sake of not having to run in circles. It's not as important to me to be a winner in this particular discussion.

[Ascended]

At this point the only reason to use Sam would be due to his race, that is barely represented anyway, though.

Not true (unfortunately for us Rich fans). Sam brings a different aesthetic to the narrative. As a teen, he sees things differently than Richard does, and reacts differently. He has different priorities, responsibilities, his supporting cast plays a different role in his story, etc. Sam's a distinct character, quite different from Richard, and for reasons far deeper than mere skin color or ethnic background.

I'm a Rich fan. Sam is an okay character in my book but I've never quite gotten over how Rich was swept to the side in favor of the new kid, just when Rich was really starting to increase his profile. I'd much rather see the Studio adapt something like Rich's post-Annihilation era than anything from Sam's history. But they're both viable options if a movie were to be made and Kevin Fiege doesn't care about my personal bias. It would just depend on what kind of movie Marvel wants to make. One or the other, or both, or even neither, all are viable options. We can weigh pro's and con's and make some vaguely educated guesses, but at the end of the day it all boils down to what the Studio wants to make, the story they want to tell, and who they think has more potential within that framework. Hell, they could decide that humans are overdone and give the Nova role to one of the aliens in the Corps (not that I think that's likely, Im just saying there's nothing stopping the Studio from making such a decision).

For all we know, Marvel would decide to make a straight up comedy with John C Reiley as the star. There are no rules here, no option that is inherently better than the rest. Im rooting for Rich. But we might not get him. If we even get a Nova movie at all; its not like even that much is certain.

[Michael Watkins]

Maybe they should go with Darkhawk instead

[Michael Watkins]

She wasn't Iron Fist and as mentioned, the diversity push is more recent.





And I'm pretty sure that's why the reboot is using John and Hal after the first one tanked, which regardless, had pretty much nothing to do with my initial statement. I'm kinda puzzled as to why you'd start a thread asking a question and then get super upset and combative when people answer it.



The thing you keep not wanting to acknowledge is it's an unnecessary fix when Sam is sitting right there. If they want a POC as Nova there's literally no reason to jump through hoops like that to retcon Richard Rider into being half Mexican or whatever you keep suggesting.



That would be very obvious once an actual actor was cast as him.

Not necessarily. What about the lead of Teen Wolf? Or someone like Emilio Estevez?

[mace11]

You have a few typos there. It's Anya Corazon, not Arna. American Chavez should be America, Mile Morales obviously should be Miles. Red Locust is changing her name to just Locust as of next month's Champions #1. In fact her costume is as much yellow as it is red. Living Lightning is now just Lightning.

Also, from that list, White Tiger, Lightning, Reptil, Firebird all aren't currently in use. Echo will be in Captain Marvel (alongside Spider-Woman and Hazmat). Anya is in the Spider-Girls mini that ends next week but after that may also be going back into limbo. America appears in West Coast Avengers. Ghost Rider is in The Avengers. Power Man (Victor Alvarez), Miles, Sam, Joaquin and Locust are all in Champions.

Of course Marvel like dc has created alot latino heroes over the years but some will be in limbo,just like the some of the white heroes are.

Here are some other marvel latino superheros that are not x-men.

Araña/Spider-Girl II
FIREBIRD [Bonita Juanrez]
Living Lightning
Power Man-Victor Alvarez
Hummingbird
Echo
Toro
Synapse( Emily Guerrero)
White Tiger-Hector
White Tiger-Angela Del Toro
White Tiger-Ava Ayala
Slingshot (yo-yo)
Tarantula-Maria Vasquez
Tarantula-Luis Alvarez
Tarantula
Nova-Sam Alexander
Ghost Rider -Roberto "Robbie" Reyes
Spider-Man II, Miles Morales
Molly Hayes in mcu runaways tv streaming show
America Chavez
Inferno(inhuman)
Helix
Falcon Joaquin Torres
Spider Man 2099
Captain America Roberta Mendez
Victor Mancha
Ghost Rider( Alejandra Blaze)
Chipmunk Hunk (Tomas Lara-Perez)
Ulysses Cain

There are latino characters and actors in all or most of the mcu marvel shows by the way.
Some heroes,some not etc..
There are latino characters in the gifted and cloak and dagger shows as well.
Molly hayes is a latino in the runways mcu show by the way.
Anyway the marvel shows(mcu and non-mcu) are doing a much better job then the marvel movies(mcu and non mcu) when comes to latino characters.
Marvel and dc are highly diverse.

[mace11]

Only reason I think race bending could work here is due to Sam already looking like a little white boy in the comics and certain branches of latino’s appear caucasian.

Sam looks half white in the comics,not white to me.
His skin tone is light but his phenotype or facial features to me does not look white.
In the marvel cartoons however his skin tone is darker.

[Holt]

Not necessarily. What about the lead of Teen Wolf?

Tyler Posey?



He's mixed like Sam but clearly favors his mother, who is of Mexican descent.

[DragonsChi]

Sam looks half white in the comics,not white to me.
His skin tone is light but his phenotype or facial features to me does not look white.
In the marvel cartoons however his skin tone is darker.

The point of the statement was that Sam is really only diverse by name. (as in Marvel say's he is) The same could be applied to Rich with a simple fix so fans get the better character, with more ingrained history and that the majority of fans seems to like more.

Sam has room to grow as a character and things could get better for him. However, just saying if you really think about it, Sam is a non-illegal half Hispanic male ,who grew up in a decent neighborhood, went to an average school, had pretty much everything a kid could ask for, and he had 15 whole years with two loving parents in the home. In a country where the demographic for Hispanic families in single family homes is at 42-50%. He was then gifted with cosmic level alien powers and spent the majority of his solo publication complaining about them. I'm a minority and I can tell you off the bat that I would not want this guy as my champion. No offense to anyone but he reads like a spoiled rich kid born with the "right" complexion.

Now you tell me, I can get the guy who was mentored by Ben Grimm aka the Thing, ate pizza with the real Spider-Man on his off days, starred down Galactus, and saved the universe at least five times now mostly by himself? "Tell me where to sign, please" would be my only response.

[The Negative Zone]

The point of the statement was that Sam is really only diverse by name. (as in Marvel say's he is) The same could be applied to Rich with a simple fix so fans get the better character, with more ingrained history and that the majority of fans seems to like more.

Sam has room to grow as a character and things could get better for him. However, just saying if you really think about it, Sam is a non-illegal half Hispanic male ,who grew up in a decent neighborhood, went to an average school, had pretty much everything a kid could ask for

I wouldn't say Sam has "everything" one could ask for. From what I recall his mom was always working and they always had money issues. Also his dad's reputation as a drunk janitor who mysteriously disappeared sure didn't help him. Oh yeah let's not forget that when he got his dad back he turned out to be a fake. Spoiled rich kid does not really fit Sam at all.