Uncanny X-Men #4 (spoilers/discussion)

[Heroine Addict]

So, with Beast's missing vial, looks like there's a traitor in the X-Men's midst. Wonder who it could be?

[Tycon]

So, with Beast's missing vial, looks like there's a traitor in the X-Men's midst. Wonder who it could be?

Imagine it being Oya.....

[sirmarkus]

Contextually speaking, whenever someone performs that feat, they're either using cerebro, powered up by the phoenix force, or overclocking themselves to the point of death. It's never done easily or effortlessly, which is why Nate's performance frightened everyone. He did it like it was nothing. (Of course if he can easily connect all minds on the planet, it's strange that he didn't realize the X-men were still alive.)

Aaaaaanyway, this is obviously Strife, so it's a moot point. The MLF was a dead giveaway. He's brain-jacked Nate and combined their powers for the boost.

A Stryfe brainjacking? Neat theory! I know Nate has an absurdly high level of potential, so having him be the antagonist has a lot of potential.

My favourite part of the book has been the portrayal of Legion. From the writing to the art he's just plain unhinged, and I love it. I want to see a throw down between him and Nate. My bet is Legion does something to trigger the 'Age of X-Man' storyline.

https://sirmarkussite.wordpress.com/...embled-part-4/

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

She's not talented at what exactly? Ororo perceives energy patterns; that is a part of her powerset and has been stated as such plenty of times throughout canon. Any magnetic field that he could manipulate she would most certainly sense and/or see it. And the fact that James Hudson is a scrub in terms of the electromagnetic energy he can manipulate in comparison to Magneto is why Ororo's ability to find him when he was already long gone is even more impressive.

No, the fact that Hudson is a scrub is why Ororo could find him at all. Tracking individuals by their energy signature doesn't come naturally to her. It's difficult for her to use her abilities in that capacity. She says so herself in your link.

I really don't understand your point. Polaris was able to see what Magneto did because she could see the after effect on the EM field due to Magneto being there. Why wouldn't Ororo be able to see that? At any rate, Ororo's awareness and her ability perceive the elements are not limited to what is in her vicinity or while in its presence..

That first example is out of context. Ororo didn't find Cyclops on her own, the Shadow King had already shown her where he was. Storm can't just find people by "concentrating." How convienant would that have been during the X-ecutioner's song, AvX, Messiah complex, IvX, Second coming, or any number of missions where tracking an individual immediately would have been incredibly useful. You can't just use a few one-off panels from a book barely anyone read from a decade ago, (or three decades in the case of that Vindicator clip) and say "Yeah, she could always do that." Except for when she can't. That's just cherry picking. How did Apollo Creed lose to Ivan Drago, if Creed once tied with Rocky? You know, because of that one time he did something that was convienant for the story but that ultimately didn't matter in the long run.

The second example is just her sussing out that a weather pattern was artificial. All within her purview.

The third example is just bad writing. (The Ozone layer is not a weather effect. The atmosphere can't be parted with winds. How did she not instantly infect herself with terminal cancer by taking a straight shot of unfiltered solar radiation? That was just some goof throwing pudding at a wall to see what sticks.)

Again I'm not sure what you are basing your analysis on when considering her ability to find Vindicator, as well as the above scans that demonstrate her awareness go beyond just her local vicinity or what's in her presence.

You're using feats as a common measure of ability, when in fact a feat is the exact opposite. If these were abilities done easily and often, that would be one thing. We know this isnt true though, because Storm gets ambushed/kidnapped/surprised quite often. And she frequently can't find the person she's after without help from her teammates.

Also I just reread the scans and it said nothing about "in it's presence". What scan are you exactly reading? If any of that were true we wouldn't have half the feats the character has been able to exhibit since her creation.

Semantics. You read that scan and are concluding that her ability is limitless. (Which it doesn't say.) I read that scan and saw that her ability has a hard limit based on what she can see.

Bottom line though I disagree with your last point she doesn't have to be an expert to perceive what Polaris was able to, especially considering her awareness on a planetary and local scale.

And respectfully, I disagree. Storm and Polaris are both connected to different aspects of the planet. There's some overlap between their powers, but that doesn't mean that they percieve things the same way. Storm can't do it all.

[butterflykyss]

No, the fact that Hudson is a scrub is why Ororo could find him at all. Tracking individuals by their energy signature doesn't come naturally to her. It's difficult for her to use her abilities in that capacity. She says so herself in your link.

Have you actually read the issue??? You are taking that scan completely out of context. She couldnt find him because the energy signal was faint (as indicated by the story and not the scan you are taking out of context). it has nothing to do with him being a scrub or it not being natural to her.

That first example is out of context. Ororo didn't find Cyclops on her own, the Shadow King had already shown her where he was. Storm can't just find people by "concentrating." How convienant would that have been during the X-ecutioner's song, AvX, Messiah complex, IvX, Second coming, or any number of missions where tracking an individual immediately would have been incredibly useful. You can't just use a few one-off panels from a book barely anyone read from a decade ago, (or three decades in the case of that Vindicator clip) and say "Yeah, she could always do that." Except for when she can't. That's just cherry picking. How did Apollo Creed lose to Ivan Drago, if Creed once tied with Rocky? You know, because of that one time he did something that was convienant for the story but that ultimately didn't matter in the long run.

Again, you clearly havent read the story if you are concluding Shadow King helped her find Cyclops because no where was that ever said. Please provide scans where it says that.
Nevertheless your rationale doesnt make any sense. And I can most certainly use the scans. Your knowledge or lack thereof doesnt negate it is an ability she has shown throughout her history. I'm not about to quote every issue it has been state that she sees the world around her as patterns of energy or each instance in which her powers have allowed her to perceive/sense things on a global scale. Especially considering how grossly you have take each scan I've provided out of context.

The second example is just her sussing out that a weather pattern was artificial. All within her purview.

the point of that scan was to show she has an awareness on a global level which contradicts your point you made up about her having to be in the presence of the energy in order to perceive it as energy.

The third example is just bad writing. (The Ozone layer is not a weather effect. The atmosphere can't be parted with winds. How did she not instantly infect herself with terminal cancer by taking a straight shot of unfiltered solar radiation? That was just some goof throwing pudding at a wall to see what sticks.)

is it bad writing because of your explanation or is it you dont have a full understanding of how her powers work? if her powers were based on weather alone she would never be able to utilize her powers in space, which she has been able to do on numerous occasions (please note her seeing the planet and the empty space as patterns of energy):





and storm is immune to the elements which would include radiation. we saw an example of this where storm was able to enter an area saturated with radiation where even Phoenix required a protective suit:

You're using feats as a common measure of ability, when in fact a feat is the exact opposite. If these were abilities done easily and often, that would be one thing. We know this isnt true though, because Storm gets ambushed/kidnapped/surprised quite often. And she frequently can't find the person she's after without help from her teammates.

I'm sure this is true of Polaris too. doesn't mean she doesnt possess those abilities.

Semantics. You read that scan and are concluding that her ability is limitless. (Which it doesn't say.) I read that scan and saw that her ability has a hard limit based on what she can see.

And respectfully, I disagree. Storm and Polaris are both connected to different aspects of the planet. There's some overlap between their powers, but that doesn't mean that they percieve things the same way. Storm can't do it all.

no you saw the scan and made up stuff that wasnt there, remember the whole part about in the presence? I'm still waiting on the scan where that was stated.

i know storm cant do it all nor did I ever say that she could; however, saying she perceives em energy, which she has done before in the past as well as controlled it, does not mean that I believe such a thing. I think this issue here is that you want to limit her to levels below her actual showings in favor of Polaris even with evidence that contradict your points. therefore, I'm done here it's pretty clear you are not well versed on the history of the character.

[salarta]

That said, I recently was made aware that Ororo has been able to follow Vindicator by way of his energy trail (electromagnetic energy in the case of James Hudson) in one of the early issues of Uncanny Xmen:

Image

Her being able to do this is a part of her powerset to perceive the natural world around her in patterns of energy and forces via her energy sight. Her not having the level of control with EM forces as Polaris does not mean she still would not be able to see them:

Image

Therefore, even if by chance she didn't know it was magneto (which if the energy ripples were as massive as Polaris described and as many times as Ororo has fought Magneto I don't think she would have been oblivious to this based upon this) she still shouldn't have had to go to that level of detail with Ororo. This is why I am concluding this was Nightcrawler who she was talking to. Also, I was mistaken saying Ororo was doing this before Polaris was thought of; however, the premise of my statements were still true. Ororo was able to track Vindicator's energy trail via her energy perception in issue 121. Polaris did not display a similar ability until issue 146:

Image

I'm not arguing if Storm is capable of such a thing. I'm saying that when it comes to this specific use, Lorna has much greater expertise than Storm.

As I already said, the force going through "like a tidal wave" isn't the only variable. Lorna citing only that doesn't mean there's not more to her reason that Storm would not have picked up on. It's the equivalent of being a programmer in a team that includes non-programmers and saying "I saw blocks of bad code and fixed them" instead of "With my expertise in the C++ programming language, I went through every line of code and recognized obscure telltale markers for bad code I've fixed numerous times." Maybe if they were alone, Lorna would've gone into extensive detail with all the jargon, if it didn't take up too much time.

With this in mind, saying Storm should know what Magneto's EM field looks like because she's fought with him multiple times assumes two things. 1) It assumes she took the time to read his specific EM field during their fights and commit it to memory. 2) It assumes Magneto's EM field would not have changed, especially in his current brainwashed state. It also implies that Storm should be as familiar with Magneto's EM field as his own daughter.

But I also need to note a couple things from the images included. First image, last panel, Storm lost the faint trail more than once despite its distinctiveness. Third image, last panel, Lorna easily followed the signal to its source. Yes, Storm can do it, but it's harder for her to pick up on it than Lorna. Takes more time and effort.

All this to say: I think everything said about the panel ("she was actually talking to Nightcrawler," my reason above, etc) is just trying to explain away something that was never meant to be read the way it's being read. I think the writers were trying to do three things at once. 1) Explain it to the readers in short and sweet terms. 2) Let Lorna have a line of dialogue relevant to her in the only X-Men event she's been in this decade. 3) Show Storm leading her team by utilizing one of its members as the asset she is.

And I come away from this feeling like this whole matter puts into question if these two should be on anything together. I'm not keen on Lorna reduced to a metal bender so Storm can get to do everything Lorna should be doing. I was pretty open to Lorna as a member of Storm's team during this event (rather than insisting she should've been with Jean and Iceman, or insisting Lorna should be leading a team of her own), but not if it means Lorna also doesn't get to show any of her real potential because Storm's there.

I don't feel right responding to the rest right now, so I'm gonna skip it. Might say something about it later, or some other time.

[butterflykyss]

I'm not arguing if Storm is capable of such a thing. I'm saying that when it comes to this specific use, Lorna has much greater expertise than Storm.

As I already said, the force going through "like a tidal wave" isn't the only variable. Lorna citing only that doesn't mean there's not more to her reason that Storm would not have picked up on. It's the equivalent of being a programmer in a team that includes non-programmers and saying "I saw blocks of bad code and fixed them" instead of "With my expertise in the C++ programming language, I went through every line of code and recognized obscure telltale markers for bad code I've fixed numerous times." Maybe if they were alone, Lorna would've gone into extensive detail with all the jargon, if it didn't take up too much time.

With this in mind, saying Storm should know what Magneto's EM field looks like because she's fought with him multiple times assumes two things. 1) It assumes she took the time to read his specific EM field during their fights and commit it to memory. 2) It assumes Magneto's EM field would not have changed, especially in his current brainwashed state. It also implies that Storm should be as familiar with Magneto's EM field as his own daughter.

But I also need to note a couple things from the images included. First image, last panel, Storm lost the faint trail more than once despite its distinctiveness. Third image, last panel, Lorna easily followed the signal to its source. Yes, Storm can do it, but it's harder for her to pick up on it than Lorna. Takes more time and effort.

All this to say: I think everything said about the panel ("she was actually talking to Nightcrawler," my reason above, etc) is just trying to explain away something that was never meant to be read the way it's being read. I think the writers were trying to do three things at once. 1) Explain it to the readers in short and sweet terms. 2) Let Lorna have a line of dialogue relevant to her in the only X-Men event she's been in this decade. 3) Show Storm leading her team by utilizing one of its members as the asset she is.

And I come away from this feeling like this whole matter puts into question if these two should be on anything together. I'm not keen on Lorna reduced to a metal bender so Storm can get to do everything Lorna should be doing. I was pretty open to Lorna as a member of Storm's team during this event (rather than insisting she should've been with Jean and Iceman, or insisting Lorna should be leading a team of her own), but not if it means Lorna also doesn't get to show any of her real potential because Storm's there.

I don't feel right responding to the rest right now, so I'm gonna skip it. Might say something about it later, or some other time.

1. I dont disagree. polaris' expertise is em manipulation.

2. All we can go on as to how she knew it was magneto is what she stated. She mentioned seeing ripples and that magneto's signature would be a tidal wave. Anything outside of this is speculative. I'm not saying this isnt Polaris' speciality, I'm simply saying that Ororo would have been able to see what Polaris described with her energy sight as well. It doesn't take away from what Polaris can do. just as jean telepathy doesnt take away from psylocke. but do you really think it would make sense if jean was giving psylocke a lesson on how she knows she is reading legion mind? no. same thing applies here. Also I appreciate your analogies they are really good. However, my question is what subtleties canonically speaking would polaris see that Ororo wouldnt with her energy sight? Especially when we look at what Polaris explained as to how she new it was magneto.

3. Again the way Polaris was able to know Magneto was there was due to the em shift being akin to a tidal wave. I don't think Polaris was saying that she knew this was him because it was an energy specific to him. They knew the enemy they were facing and based upon the fact the em ripples were so huge she knew it would only be magneto capable of doing such a thing. unless there is evidence of her seeing em ripples and being able to distinguish which character it is.

4. Yes she lost the trail as it was faint. She wasn't trailing Magneto or Polaris but Vindicator. She didnt even attempt to do so until some time later so this is why it took time to find exactly where he and alpha flight were located. (in fact you can see the xmen have changed from civilian gear into their uniforms which meant even more time passed) To the panel I provided with Polaris I think your conclusion is not a fair one. Ororo was attempting to follow a source of energy considerably smaller over a greater distance than the source Polaris was directly above when her team arrived at the amusement park. She was literally hovering over the park, and even said the amusement park would have an underground power source. That said she knew exactly where to look even before using her perception abilities. Therefore it's an apples to oranges comparison with Ororo's being far more impressive considering her circumstances.

5. i think that is a fair assessment of what writers wanted to do. it just appeared from the speech bubble box ororo was asking the question when that wouldnt make any sense considering her powerset. no one said ororo should have said this instead of Polaris. the point was being made such a statement would not need to be made to ororo as she can perceive these things as well. this is why it was dropped once it was pointed out she was talking to nightcrawler.

6. sounds good.

[Heroine Addict]

... Ororo didn't find Cyclops...

... Storm and Polaris are both connected to different aspects of the planet. There's some overlap between their powers, but that doesn't mean that they percieve things the same way. ...

I would argue what she actually found was the Blackbird he was in, as it was, "... cutting through the atmosphere." That's how I read it. This would even line up with the Vindicator instance, now that I think about it, taking into account his powers are derived from the mechanical/technological suit he wears.

THIS! It really is just that simple. Unlike Jean & Psylocke, say, Polaris & Storm's powers are not the same. Therefore it's highly likely, and safe to assume I would say, that their 'energy sights' are not either.

... I don't think Polaris was saying that she knew this was him because it was an energy specific to him. ... unless there is evidence of her seeing em ripples and being able to distinguish which character it is. ...

I think she was. 'Cause yes, she can, she has:

... and there is.

When it comes to identifying people via their EM signatures alone, can the same be said for Storm?

Also, something else I thought of to consider, as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse:_The_Twelve

... They are in fact twelve powerful mutants that Apocalypse wants to lure together, as he needs them to ascend to godhood. Polaris and Magneto represented the opposing magnetic poles; Storm, Iceman and Sunfire represented the elements of nature; Cyclops, Jean, and Cable represented the unity of family (Father, Mother and Child), and chosen for the power of the Summers-Grey bloodline; Bishop and Mikhail represented the control over time and space; Xavier represented the power of mind and the Living Monolith represented the core. ...

... alluding to what distinguishes them, and sets them apart. Again, similarities =/= the same, there's a difference.

[Heroine Addict]

Imagine it being Oya.....

I CAN'T, it's so TOTALLY out of left field. What made ya even think of her? Yeah, wouldn't want or like that, I don't think.

[Tycon]

I CAN'T, it's so TOTALLY out of left field. What made ya even think of her? Yeah, wouldn't want or like that, I don't think.

It would be a horribly controversial choice that wouldn't add anything likeable to the character while also erasing all her development to just "I hate being a mutant uwu where's that damn cure." For those exact reasons, I can totally see them doing that. Or the alternative, having Oya just sit unconscious on the table for the entire event, which I could also see them doing.

[Snoop Dogg]

claremont told me that if storm puts on glasses she can see god at work

[PrezValentine]

Contextually speaking, whenever someone performs that feat, they're either using cerebro, powered up by the phoenix force, or overclocking themselves to the point of death. It's never done easily or effortlessly, which is why Nate's performance frightened everyone. He did it like it was nothing. (Of course if he can easily connect all minds on the planet, it's strange that he didn't realize the X-men were still alive.)

Aaaaaanyway, this is obviously Strife, so it's a moot point. The MLF was a dead giveaway. He's brain-jacked Nate and combined their powers for the boost.

I honestly hadn't thought of Stryfe hijacking Nate, but with the way you put it, it makes perfect sense and, therefore, we know now Marvel will do something even more convoluted.

[nx01a]

claremont told me that if storm puts on glasses she can see god at work

*waits for scans of Storm not needing glasses to see God*

[greyspawn]

So, with Beast's missing vial, looks like there's a traitor in the X-Men's midst. Wonder who it could be?

My guess is that the tratior is working for Dark Beast. Maybe one of the kids that went down to the sewers.

[Tycon]

My guess is that the tratior is working for Dark Beast. Maybe one of the kids that went down to the sewers.

Only two of them went down: Anole and Armor, where they got attacked by Dark Beast. I doubt they'd work for the guy they just got assaulted by.