Uncanny X-Men #4 (spoilers/discussion)

[Heroine Addict]

In a previous issue, Beast went to retrieve the cure that was being advertised. He starts to study it and then realizes that it looks familiar. He runs to his fridge and sees a missing vial. The implication is that Beast himself developed the cure and that someone stole it from him.

Has he, I don't recall?

Edit: Ah, got it. My mistake was thinkin' the container with the missing vial, was what he retrieved. But understand now it was something he already had on hand, and what the sample was derived from, apparently.

[Heroine Addict]

It's better to assume the speech bubble should be pointed at Kurt and not Ororo. Storm should not have asked that question.

Yeah, she should've just agreed with Polaris.

[Drey]

In a previous issue, Beast went to retrieve the cure that was being advertised. He starts to study it and then realizes that it looks familiar. He runs to his fridge and sees a missing vial. The implication is that Beast himself developed the cure and that someone stole it from him.

I hope not BUT...if Beast did create this "cure" (as if because Mutants aren't carrying a disease), then I hope there's a reason beyond his curiousity and his willingness to play "God". I just really want to like him again and I feel like his character gets dragged through the mud a little too often.

The idea of the "cure" does raise some interesting thoughts I can't deny. If mutants were real and I found out that I could change my unborn mutant baby into a flatscan baby, it would really give me thought to the whole situation. I'd like to say that we are born who we are and who are we to change things? But then again we all know that non X-men mutant life spans (especially the kids) don't last long because of the Extinction plot of the week, bigot groups with death weapons, or mutant heroes and villains searching for young recruits, etc. which tend to lead to their untimely deaths. Constantly worried and in possible danger does not appeal to me in the slightest. Not for my theoretical kids! I guess the quote "I'd rather love you as mortals than have to mourn you as dead witches" from Charmed rings to me.

I believe Havok83 touched a little on this a while back?

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Scooby is definitely either Hank or Kurt (they're both furry, but Hank messes up the most so he should get the honors lol)
Shaggy is Bobby, because comic relief
Velma is non-existent, because logical, analytical thought is nowehere to be found in this story
And Freddy might be Northstar (?) as a male figure who is mostly serious and rather competent (until Scott and Logan arrive to be the Alphas again)
Does that make everyone else the kidnapped victims of the week? LOL

In all seriousness, the formulaic structure is not much of a problem, it's just its execution.

LOL as much as Bobby likes to stuff his face that is 100% right!
Jean: "let's see who's really behind this" *takes off scary monster mask* Cousin Legion!
Legion: I would've gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you kids!

...and yet another thread devolves into overpowered Storm FEATZ and scans. At least there's consistency on these boards.

God forbid Lorna gets something to say that makes sense for HER powers. And ever notice how this hijacking takes place when Storm's barely in the issue? then it becomes "this is what should have happened" as if fans of every other character in the crossover wasn't thinking the same thing.

I hope not BUT...if Beast did create this "cure" (as if because Mutants aren't carrying a disease), then I hope there's a reason beyond his curiousity and his willingness to play "God". I just really want to like him again and I feel like his character gets dragged through the mud a little too often.

The idea of the "cure" does raise some interesting thoughts I can't deny. If mutants were real and I found out that I could change my unborn mutant baby into a flatscan baby, it would really give me thought to the whole situation. I'd like to say that we are born who we are and who are we to change things? But then again we all know that non X-men mutant life spans (especially the kids) don't last long because of the Extinction plot of the week, bigot groups with death weapons, or mutant heroes and villains searching for young recruits, etc. which tend to lead to their untimely deaths. Constantly worried and in possible danger does not appeal to me in the slightest. Not for my theoretical kids! I guess the quote "I'd rather love you as mortals than have to mourn you as dead witches" from Charmed rings to me.

I believe Havok83 touched a little on this a while back?

Now it's like there's TOO much going on...another total threat to mutants wasn't needed, or wanted.

[salarta]

I mean, it's nice they had Storm actually voice her opinion and display a slight bit of leadership, but her being schooled in EM disruptions by Polaris was silly

Here's a question: how often has Storm been written as reading EM patterns to detect people?

Because here's how I see it, as someone who's a Lorna fan but not a Storm fan - and therefore doesn't know all the things she's been written in comics as doing.



Storm can see EM, but her usage of EM usually involves weather patterns and geological phenomena. She can read people if she must, but it's not her primary area of expertise. That kind of disruption is more Lorna's area of specialty. Similarly, Lorna may be able to pick up on weather patterns and geological phenomena, but not to the level of expertise Storm has even with Lorna holding a Masters in Geophysics.

In other words, think of it this way. You have two professors of English. One is extremely well-versed in etymology, grammar, linguistics, and generally the history of the language. The other is an expert in literary criticism, literary theory, history of literature, perhaps the creative writing process. As professors of English, they may have enough knowledge to dabble in each others' areas of expertise, but they aren't going to be so incredibly perfect at both areas that they're redundant to each other. Professor A doesn't know how Thoreau's writing affected society, and Professor B doesn't know X prefix comes from some ancient Greek word.

In this specific context, I could make the case that Storm asking Lorna if she's sure it's Magneto is due to Storm not knowing Magneto's specific signature as well as Lorna does. Magnetic field disruption being like a "tidal wave" doesn't necessarily mean it's Magneto doing it. And then Lorna explaining how she knows either being a) for the benefit of everyone else on the team, or b) Lorna not knowing Storm's level of ability. I know I have a personal bad habit of explaining things to people who already know most of what I'm talking about, because I'm too used to explaining it to people who don't.

Though I think the real reason for Lorna explaining is just so the reader knows.

why would she need to explain how she knew magneto was around when she has done the same way early in her time as an xmen and well before Mrs. Lorna was even thought of:

... Polaris was created in 1968. Storm was created in 1975.

And if I'm being frank here, Claremont very clearly has a hate-on for Lorna and clearly has always perceived Lorna as a threat to his Storm fandom rather than an ally or equal. He wasn't interested in finding nuance between these two women who have a few spots of power overlap. He was focused on tearing Lorna down so she couldn't "compete" with Storm. That's why by the end of his run, the X-Men were fine with hurting her to save the day, and he had Zaladane strip Lorna's powers to make them generic with an added "lol everyone hates Lorna she sux" 'bonus' to boot. Which he had Lorna blame herself for, because of course.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

It's not just that but everyone in that panel could read that differently.

Lorna noticed something in the EM field, Storm might have read something in the atmosphere, Psylocke could've picked it up from the people's memories, Cannonball/Jubilee/Nightcrawler might have just simply guessed.

it's petty to argue that one character got a line instead of another

He IS Lorna's father it makes more sense for her to know when he's been there...just like all the times Rogue knew Mystique was impersonating someone. It's a family thing.

[butterflykyss]

Here's a question: how often has Storm been written as reading EM patterns to detect people?

Because here's how I see it, as someone who's a Lorna fan but not a Storm fan - and therefore doesn't know all the things she's been written in comics as doing.


Storm can see EM, but her usage of EM usually involves weather patterns and geological phenomena. She can read people if she must, but it's not her primary area of expertise. That kind of disruption is more Lorna's area of specialty. Similarly, Lorna may be able to pick up on weather patterns and geological phenomena, but not to the level of expertise Storm has even with Lorna holding a Masters in Geophysics.

In other words, think of it this way. You have two professors of English. One is extremely well-versed in etymology, grammar, linguistics, and generally the history of the language. The other is an expert in literary criticism, literary theory, history of literature, perhaps the creative writing process. As professors of English, they may have enough knowledge to dabble in each others' areas of expertise, but they aren't going to be so incredibly perfect at both areas that they're redundant to each other. Professor A doesn't know how Thoreau's writing affected society, and Professor B doesn't know X prefix comes from some ancient Greek word.

In this specific context, I could make the case that Storm asking Lorna if she's sure it's Magneto is due to Storm not knowing Magneto's specific signature as well as Lorna does. Magnetic field disruption being like a "tidal wave" doesn't necessarily mean it's Magneto doing it. And then Lorna explaining how she knows either being a) for the benefit of everyone else on the team, or b) Lorna not knowing Storm's level of ability. I know I have a personal bad habit of explaining things to people who already know most of what I'm talking about, because I'm too used to explaining it to people who don't.

Though I think the real reason for Lorna explaining is just so the reader knows.

First I think the consensus now is that she was talking to Nightcrawler as Polaris was facing towards him when she gave the lengthy explanation. That said, I recently was made aware that Ororo has been able to follow Vindicator by way of his energy trail (electromagnetic energy in the case of James Hudson) in one of the early issues of Uncanny Xmen:



Her being able to do this is a part of her powerset to perceive the natural world around her in patterns of energy and forces via her energy sight. Her not having the level of control with EM forces as Polaris does not mean she still would not be able to see them:



Therefore, even if by chance she didn't know it was magneto (which if the energy ripples were as massive as Polaris described and as many times as Ororo has fought Magneto I don't think she would have been oblivious to this based upon this) she still shouldn't have had to go to that level of detail with Ororo. This is why I am concluding this was Nightcrawler who she was talking to. Also, I was mistaken saying Ororo was doing this before Polaris was thought of; however, the premise of my statements were still true. Ororo was able to track Vindicator's energy trail via her energy perception in issue 121. Polaris did not display a similar ability until issue 146:

... Polaris was created in 1968. Storm was created in 1975.

And if I'm being frank here, Claremont very clearly has a hate-on for Lorna and clearly has always perceived Lorna as a threat to his Storm fandom rather than an ally or equal. He wasn't interested in finding nuance between these two women who have a few spots of power overlap. He was focused on tearing Lorna down so she couldn't "compete" with Storm. That's why by the end of his run, the X-Men were fine with hurting her to save the day, and he had Zaladane strip Lorna's powers to make them generic with an added "lol everyone hates Lorna she sux" 'bonus' to boot. Which he had Lorna blame herself for, because of course.

i'm not sure if he had a "hate-on" for Polaris or if he was just trying to demonstrate how powerful Ororo truly was. You must keep in mind when Ororo was created her creators envisioned her being the most powerful and beautiful female character ever created. Additionally, Jean was given the Phoenix to put her on the similar power levels of Ororo.


http://seanhowe.tumblr.com/post/1270...e-her-the-most

also in the inferno scans Polaris was possessed by malice I dont think it's fair to say he was tearing her down when keeping this in mind.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

"this level of power is unheard of"
"not even Xavier at his strongest could have done it"

Contextually speaking, whenever someone performs that feat, they're either using cerebro, powered up by the phoenix force, or overclocking themselves to the point of death. It's never done easily or effortlessly, which is why Nate's performance frightened everyone. He did it like it was nothing. (Of course if he can easily connect all minds on the planet, it's strange that he didn't realize the X-men were still alive.)

Aaaaaanyway, this is obviously Strife, so it's a moot point. The MLF was a dead giveaway. He's brain-jacked Nate and combined their powers for the boost.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

why would she need to explain how she knew magneto was around when she has done the same way early in her time as an xmen and well before Mrs. Lorna was even thought of:



Maybe the writers should stop with lowballing her character and give proper due to the Hadari Yao!!!!

The page you linked said that Storm had to work hard at it and that she lost the trail more than once. That means Ororo can do it at a basic level but she's FAR from being a master at it. Lorna, on the other hand, Sherlock'd that sh*t with one glance because her powers are better suited to it.

[greyspawn]

Contextually speaking, whenever someone performs that feat, they're either using cerebro, powered up by the phoenix force, or overclocking themselves to the point of death. It's never done easily or effortlessly, which is why Nate's performance frightened everyone. He did it like it was nothing. (Of course if he can easily connect all minds on the planet, it's strange that he didn't realize the X-men were still alive.)

Aaaaaanyway, this is obviously Strife, so it's a moot point. The MLF was a dead giveaway. He's brain-jacked Nate and combined their powers for the boost.

Either that or maybe one of Legion's Personalities has taken over. i think the red eyes when talking to Apocalypse in issue 4 was the first hint that something may be up.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Her being able to do this is a part of her powerset to perceive the natural world around her in patterns of energy and forces via her energy sight. Her not having the level of control with these forces as Polaris does not mean she still would not be able to see them:

This linked image doesn't support your supposition. It's basically saying that Storm can tell if someone is going to attack her because she can read the electrical impulses in their brain. Nothing whatsoever about sensing presences through their EM field.

[butterflykyss]

The page you linked said that Storm had to work hard at it and that she lost the trail more than once. That means Ororo can do it at a basic level but she's FAR from being a master at it. Lorna, on the other hand, Sherlock'd that sh*t with one glance because her powers are better suited to it.

Vindicator was already long gone by the time the Xmen were attempting to find them in the scan I provided. Storm had to look at faint energy signatures to make sense of where Alpha Flight had gone so knowing she was able to do this considering this is a feat of it's own. The energy signatures Vindicator would generate would be quite less than anything Magneto could generate.

This linked image doesn't support your supposition. It's basically saying that Storm can tell if someone is going to attack her because she can read the electrical impulses in their brain. Nothing whatsoever about sensing presences through their EM field.

I'm not sure how you conclude such at thing when it says that she can see the world around her in two (2) ways: 1) the natural way everyone does, and 2) as a world of energy. The latter would allow her to see energy signatures such as the ripples Polaris was discussing.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Vindicator was already long gone by the time the Xmen were attempting to find them in the scan I provided. Storm had to look at faint energy signatures to make sense of where Alpha Flight had gone so knowing she was able to do this considering this is a feat of it's own. The energy signatures Vindicator would make would be quite less than anything Magneto could generate.

But it still doesn't negate the fact she's not talented at it. Magneto is capable of masking his presence from the phoenix force. He can also confound Stark tech, kree tech, and Skrull tech. How many panels have we seen where he's been in the same room as the X-men without them realizing it? With all due respect to Canada, James Hudson was a scrub.

I'm not sure how you conclude such at thing when it says that she can see the world around her in two (2) ways: 1) the natural way everyone does, and 2) as a world of energy. The latter would allow her to see energy signatures such as the ripples Polaris was discussing.

The narration says flat out that she can only see the forms of power that comprise an object while in its presence. She has to be able to observe the thing itself in order to see its effects. Hence, no Magneto means no E.M. field for her to trace. If she could just 'know' who was nearby through their energy signatures, think of how many ambushes she could have avoided over the years. Storm is versatile and intelligent, but that makes her informed, not an expert.

[butterflykyss]

But it still doesn't negate the fact she's not talented at it. Magneto is capable of masking his presence from the phoenix force. He can also confound Stark tech, kree tech, and Skrull tech. How many panels have we seen where he's been in the same room as the X-men without them realizing it? With all due respect to Canada, James Hudson was a scrub.

She's not talented at what exactly? Ororo perceives energy patterns; that is a part of her powerset and has been stated as such plenty of times throughout canon. Any magnetic field that he could manipulate she would most certainly sense and/or see it. And the fact that James Hudson is a scrub in terms of the electromagnetic energy he can manipulate in comparison to Magneto is why Ororo's ability to find him when he was already long gone is even more impressive.

The narration says flat out that she can only see the forms of power that comprise an object while in its presence. She has to be able to observe the thing itself in order to see its effects. Hence, no Magneto means no E.M. field for her to trace. If she could just 'know' who was nearby through their energy signatures, think of how many ambushes she could have avoided over the years. Storm is versatile and intelligent, but that makes her informed, not an expert.

I really don't understand your point. Polaris was able to see what Magneto did because she could see the after effect on the EM field due to Magneto being there. Why wouldn't Ororo be able to see that? At any rate, Ororo's awareness and her ability perceive the elements are not limited to what is in her vicinity or while in its presence..







Again I'm not sure what you are basing your analysis on when considering her ability to find Vindicator, as well as the above scans that demonstrate her awareness go beyond just her local vicinity or what's in her presence.

Also I just reread the scans and it said nothing about "in it's presence". What scan are you exactly reading? If any of that were true we wouldn't have half the feats the character has been able to exhibit since her creation.

Bottom line though I disagree with your last point she doesn't have to be an expert to perceive what Polaris was able to, especially considering her awareness on a planetary and local scale.

[Heroine Addict]

Just addressing the 2 earlier, Storm/Polaris pages first shown, per Ororo's own words: "... a distinctive energy trail, a disruption in the air I think I can follow."

Then the narration actually states in the other, that Lorna can alter her perceptions to see the world solely in E.M. energy patterns.

Adding to that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_(Marvel_Comics)

... can alter her visual perceptions so as to see the universe in terms of energy patterns, detecting the flow of kinetic, thermal and electromagnetic energy behind weather phenomena and can bend this energy to her will. ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris_(comics)

... can perceive the world around her solely as patterns of magnetic and electrical energy. She can perceive the natural magnetic auras surrounding living beings as well. ...

Furthermore, they're often referenced as the Wind-Rider & Mistress of Magnetism, respectively. That kinda sums it up pretty succinctly, I've always thought.