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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    He went there because he wanted. Jean ddin't asked him to go meet her..
    Jean didn't ruined any woman
    He went there for who? For Jean.
    She ruined Madelynes marriage, Jean was ok with being the side chick.

    she punched Scott before being pregnant? anyway nothing justify violence

    Scott was on a fight, Emma already demonstrated that she was attracted to namor. They had sex on the past
    Scott kept on buzzing her with Jean. The punch was earned.

    Jean was always attracted to Wolverine, so she cheated too.

    Emma was so good to Scott, that he ended being hated by x-men. Congrats

    LOL with fanfics. Jean was too nice to him, more than he deserved
    The X-Men hated him because they did not understand what it is to be a leader and taking risks.
    Jean was only emasculating him and using him. What did Jean do that was nice to Scott? All she did was cast a obsession spell on him.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I haven't followed this trainwreck of a thread for more than the last page or so, but predictably some points have been left out that I think need to said.

    1. Maddie and Scott are both responsible for the end of their marriage. Maddie because she created the conditions for it to end - "If you leave don't come back" and Scott for fulfilling those conditions by leaving. Logically both could have prevented it but neither did, so they're both responsible.

    2. Maddie had been hostile to the X-Men and Scott's role in it for some time, going so far as to rig the duel between Scott and Ororo so Scott loses. So her ultimatum to Scott in XF 1 could be seen as a continuance of this hostility. She didn't know that Jean was alive, so her objections to Scott leaving had to be based around her concern he was returning to the X-Men, not that he was planning to reunite with his no longer dead ex-girlfriend. The motivations of the scene matter and in Maddie's case, her motivation to prevent Scott from returning to the X-Men had been building in Uncanny for some time already. This was simply the culmination of that motivation.

    3. Jean had no agency in her return. The PF was responsible for her condition, and the FF were responsible for locating her and freeing her from her cocoon.

    Jean literally has no place in this discussion. She didn't make any choices that ultimately impacted Maddie and Scott's marriage beyond accepting the PF's help in UXM 100. At that time there was no way Jean could have known the outcome of that choice, beyond the immediate impact (The X-Men surviving). So if she had not made that choice, Scott would have died, and Maddie would never have been given life because the PF would never have reached out to her after the events of the DPS. There is no logical basis for suggesting that Jean had any agency in ending Maddie and Scott's marriage. Yes, her presence in XF 1 did have an impact, but Jean had no choice in that. She wasn't even aware that Scott was married at the time.
    Thank You!!!!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I haven't followed this trainwreck of a thread for more than the last page or so, but predictably some points have been left out that I think need to said.

    1. Maddie and Scott are both responsible for the end of their marriage. Maddie because she created the conditions for it to end - "If you leave don't come back" and Scott for fulfilling those conditions by leaving. Logically both could have prevented it but neither did, so they're both responsible.

    2. Maddie had been hostile to the X-Men and Scott's role in it for some time, going so far as to rig the duel between Scott and Ororo so Scott loses. So her ultimatum to Scott in XF 1 could be seen as a continuance of this hostility. She didn't know that Jean was alive, so her objections to Scott leaving had to be based around her concern he was returning to the X-Men, not that he was planning to reunite with his no longer dead ex-girlfriend. The motivations of the scene matter and in Maddie's case, her motivation to prevent Scott from returning to the X-Men had been building in Uncanny for some time already. This was simply the culmination of that motivation.

    3. Jean had no agency in her return. The PF was responsible for her condition, and the FF were responsible for locating her and freeing her from her cocoon.

    Jean literally has no place in this discussion. She didn't make any choices that ultimately impacted Maddie and Scott's marriage beyond accepting the PF's help in UXM 100. At that time there was no way Jean could have known the outcome of that choice, beyond the immediate impact (The X-Men surviving). So if she had not made that choice, Scott would have died, and Maddie would never have been given life because the PF would never have reached out to her after the events of the DPS. There is no logical basis for suggesting that Jean had any agency in ending Maddie and Scott's marriage. Yes, her presence in XF 1 did have an impact, but Jean had no choice in that. She wasn't even aware that Scott was married at the time.
    Thatís not true.
    Madelyne and Scott were working on their marriage and it was going fine until Jean showed up.
    It was all her fault.

    If she remained dead, Scott would have been happily married.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaKat View Post
    Thatís not true.
    Madelyne and Scott were working on their marriage and it was going fine until Jean showed up.
    It was all her fault.

    If she remained dead, Scott would have been happily married.
    Jean didn't "show up", she was revived by the Fantastic Four. She wasn't asked if she wanted to be revived. The FF just did it. These are all facts that are clearly depicted in Fantastic Four Vol 1 # 286.
    Jean didn't reach out to Scott. Warren did that. Warren also didn't explain Scott's marital status to Jean, so when she met him at the Waldorf in NY, she assumed that he was unattached. These are all facts that are clearly depicted in X-Factor #1
    Maddie clearly wasn't aware Jean was alive as we can see in the panel below from X-Factor #1. These panels also clearly illustrate that Maddie's concern is with Scott returning to the X-Men, not reuniting with Jean.



    Maddie clearly made an ultimatum to Scott in the panels below. This isn't working on a marriage. This is ending it. Maddie made the ultimatum and Scott chose to accept it. There marriage was functionally over by the end of this group of panels.



    Their marriage was over before Scott even saw Jean alive for the first time. There was no choice Jean could have made or not made to save a marriage she didn't even know existed.

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