Yamcha (Pre-Dragon Ball Z) vs. Shang Chi

[The Drunkard Kid]

Kami seems pretty clearly surprised. I don't think there's any indication that he was allowing himself to get hit. Playing with Yamcha doesn't mean he reduced his ability to dodge, just that he wasn't taking the guy out when he could. In this case, the point is establishing Yamcha's attacks as something that high end bullet time isn't dodging.

Like obviously Kami could win any time he wanted, but the point is that Yamcha was able to land the hit at all and have it do something. I think the fact that Kami immediately stops playing (actual fighting stances, serious expression, etc) and decisively ends the fight after taking that hit does a pretty good job of demonstrating that he wasn't expecting to actually eat a shot.

Edit: Put another way, is there any evidence Shang Chi could land a hit on Kami?

Well, considering that all my posts are stating that Yamcha seems to be presented as being way beyond Shang Chi in terms of speed and strength, I don't think that I'm particularly interested in making that argument. My point was that, as Yamcha himself stated during that fight, Kami got a bit too arrogant and wasn't straining himself at all, which is why he was standing still and got hit in the jaw by an attack that unexpectedly came up out of the ground.

I mean, the fight went:

Kami pretended to be some nebbish middle aged man named Shen who was randomly flapping around and being casually dodged by a Yamcha that was trying to humor him, only for Yamcha to get the wind knocked out of him when Shin "accidentally" fell over in a way that ended up with him kicking Yamcha in the gut. Then Yamcha tried to gently kick Shen out of the ring only for him to panic and duck, "accidentally" causing Yamcha to ram his crotch into Shen's skull and roll around in pain for awhile. Then Yamcha gets laughed at by the crowd but still tries to play it off as not bothering him, until Shen commented about how he was definitely going to win and got Yamcha a bit irked so he got into a prepared stance and told Shen to attack whenever he was ready, resulting in Shen instantly elbowing him in the face hard enough to send him rolling across the ring while Shen waited around for him to get up, which took a few panels, and then chided Yamcha about not noticing the subtle movements in his form that should have warned him that he was only pretending to be a novice.

Following that, Yamcha went all out and got still monstered all over like a n00b while Shen casually offered tips and kept up a stream of compliments about Yamcha's skill and potential to surpass even himself sometime in the future. Eventually, he confided that he was actually just possessing the body he was using at the time (though at no point does he imply that doing so made him any weaker), after which Yamcha charged up the Soukidan without Shen doing anything except commenting on what Yamcha seemed to be doing. Now, when Yamcha finally fired it off, the speed definitely seemed to impress Shen/Kami, but he still dodged it twice, with the second time resulting in the attack apparently being "accidentally" buried in the ground and Yamcha complaining about how fast Shen was. Then he admitted that he never dreamed that Yamcha could do anything like that and Yamcha revealed that he had been faking his previous ire and caused the attack to fly up out from underneath Shen's feet and suckerpunch him in the jaw, which shocked the entire crowd.

This was then immediately followed by Shen/Kami flipping in mid-air so that he landed on his feet and immediately one-shotting Yamcha in the gut hard enough to make him stagger backwards until he fell out of the ring. And in Shen's next fight, he opened up with an attack that instantly blew up the ground underneath Piccolo's feet and dodged an energy beam that went way out of city limits in moments and proceeded to make everyone else who wasn't Goku practically soil themselves with how much power and speed he was showing.

So, yeah, he landed a hit on Kami, and it was depicted as being subjectively super impressive by everyone, including Kami himself, and is way beyond what most people in DB Earth (much less Shang Chi) could do, but there is a big green asterisk on the feat from an objective prospective since it was only possible because Kami was holding himself back immensely, didn't go after several major openings so he could give Yamcha a lesson, allowed him to charge and fire the attack off in the first place, and then let his guard down to compliment Yamcha instead of seriously going on the offensive. And the moment that he did get serious, he won.

[BitVyper]

I'm not saying it puts him at Kami's speed. I'm saying his attack is fast enough that, at minimum, it was able to connect when Kami had ~1 metre to notice it and move his head out of the way, so it's at least in the ballpark of his reflex speed. That's significant, because the Piccolo Daimao arc that came immediately before was when we first started to really see characters that were SO overpowered, they could no-sell attacks and generally treat everyone beneath them as utterly trivial in what would later become DBZ's thing.

The only real context I'm interested in is its use in establishing that Yamcha in the 23rd Budokai is probably faster than anyone in the 22nd Budokai. Particularly since with that move, he's tightly controlling its movement, which demonstrates that he's reacting to the speed of his own attack.

[The Chou Lives]

Guys guys. I know it’s Yamcha and yes the Kami thing was impressive though Kami was not all out.

What matters is, he beats Shang Chi. Even if it’s Yamcha.

Yamcha: Hey!

Me: Shut Up Yamcha.

[Nik Hasta]

There is a scene where Yamcha is running, on foot, beside a sports car speeding on the highway. The speedometer was reading well over 100. Moments later Yamcha and crew zoom away from said car leaving blurred after images in his wake.

Heck, his very first showing EVER had him punting Goku through several giant stone towers

It's a fun clip:

[Cyke]

It's a fun clip:

So many things I love about that clip:

1. The random jet engine noises to denote their speed

2. Krillin and Chiaozu are downright adorable next to the car

3. They're not out of breath at all

4. The StarFox-style blast off at the end

[wjowski]

Guys guys. I know it’s Yamcha and yes the Kami thing was impressive though Kami was not all out.

What matters is, he beats Shang Chi. Even if it’s Yamcha.

Yamcha: Hey!

Me: Shut Up Yamcha.

To be fair, DB-era Yamcha is a powerful fighter who just happens to have bad luck with his starting opponents.

And really, at the end of DBZ pretty much the entirety of the original cast is Yamcha.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I'm not saying it puts him at Kami's speed. I'm saying his attack is fast enough that, at minimum, it was able to connect when Kami had ~1 metre to notice it and move his head out of the way, so it's at least in the ballpark of his reflex speed. That's significant, because the Piccolo Daimao arc that came immediately before was when we first started to really see characters that were SO overpowered, they could no-sell attacks and generally treat everyone beneath them as utterly trivial in what would later become DBZ's thing.

The only real context I'm interested in is its use in establishing that Yamcha in the 23rd Budokai is probably faster than anyone in the 22nd Budokai. Particularly since with that move, he's tightly controlling its movement, which demonstrates that he's reacting to the speed of his own attack.

I mean, just the fact that he was able to keep track of Goku and Tenshinhan when they were limiting themselves to the speed Goku had during the fight against Piccolo Daimaou (which was after obtaining a massive power boost after he was already there fastest person in the 22nd Budokai by a fair margin) already implies that Yamcha's in that tier.

[The Arbiter]

I mean, just the fact that he was able to keep track of Goku and Tenshinhan when they were limiting themselves to the speed Goku had during the fight against Piccolo Daimaou (which was after obtaining a massive power boost after he was already there fastest person in the 22nd Budokai by a fair margin) already implies that Yamcha's in that tier.

"Keeping track" of opponents/things is so goofy in DBZ where sometimes Bulma/Roshi/whoever can observe Dyspo or something in combat lol.

...this is not really an argument. More of a gripe.

[The Drunkard Kid]

"Keeping track" of opponents/things is so goofy in DBZ where sometimes Bulma/Roshi/whoever can observe Dyspo or something in combat lol.

...this is not really an argument. More of a gripe.

That's more of a post Dragonball/Z thing. In Dragonball and most of DBZ, people being unable to keep track of those who were significantly faster than them was a pretty hard rule, especially in the 23rd Budokai. If it helps, Roshi explicitly couldn't keep of Goku and Tenshinhan during the sequence in question.

[The Arbiter]

That's more of a post Dragonball/Z thing. In Dragonball and most of DBZ, people being unable to keep track of those who were significantly faster than them was a pretty hard rule, especially in the 23rd Budokai. If it helps, Roshi explicitly couldn't keep of Goku and Tenshinhan during the sequence in question.

Ah, yes "DBZ" was a mistake. I mentioned Dyspo because I had Super on the brain.