A lesser know hero you would like to see DC give a push?

[Jim Kelly]

Omen.

The only Omen I know in the DCU is this one:

[Harpsikord]

The only problem with Omen is she is Titan, and Dan Didio HATES all former Titans and wants them all dead. I'm sure in his desk drawer there is a special issue already written by him called Titans Slaughter where he gleefully kills off any character older than Damian Wayne who has ever been a member of the Titans. He just has not had the balls to finally push it through.

So, we throw Didio under the bus instead!

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The only Omen I know in the DCU is this one:

He's talking about Lilith Clay from the Titans.

[Sutekh]

Omen.

Lilith would have been a great character to move forward, and, in another universe, could have been updated into the 'Raven' role in Wolfman & Perez's Teen Titans relaunch. (It's not like finding out that her father was a demon from another dimension would have hugely changed her until-then, non-existent backstory, and, amusingly, she eventually did turn out to have an otherdimensional entity as a parent...)

I kind of liked how her generic 'psychic' or 'sensitive' nature wasn't as clear cut as Marvel universe telepathy, and left a lot of her power in the hands of the writer, who could decide to use her to info-dump as needed, or point the team at a specific threat 'because Lilith had a bad dream' or whatever. Thanks to movies like Next or Minority Report, the use of predictive combat techniques by Jedi, and comic book 'combat precognitives' like Threeboot Dream Girl, Rose Wilson and Negasonic Warhead, even being more of a precognitive than a brain-blaster with a raft of psychic attacks has been recognized as a pretty cool and effective powerset in it's own right, and Lilith could function pretty well in that slot, with a little physical training (perhaps with Dick or Donna).

Too much telepathy and it becomes a case of 'why didn't she see X coming?' and leads to a glut of enemies that are inexplicably resistant to her power. I'd like to keep it well below X-Men levels, but she's got potential!

In another universe, she (and Bumblebee) could have joined Dick, Wally, Donna, and some mix of Garfield, Roy and / or Garth to form a 'new' Teen Titans made up of older classic members, from before the days of Cyborg, Raven and Starfire. While the new 52 Teen Titans didn't exactly soar, I did appreciate the attempt to bring these classic Teen Titans back to the forefront. (Well, maybe not Gnarrk/'Cave Boy.' Some things can stay in the past, and cavemen are definitely one of them...)

[Koriand'r]

ARTEMIS 10.jpg


Artemis - She's far easier to write than Wonder Woman, she has a great design and weapons, plus she's a bridge between the Wonder and Bat families. Personally I think she's not pushed more because she could possibly overshadow Diana because she has none of her drawbacks.

[byrd156]

ARTEMIS 10.jpg


Artemis - She's far easier to write than Wonder Woman, she has a great design and weapons, plus she's a bridge between the Wonder and Bat families. Personally I think she's not pushed more because she could possibly overshadow Diana because she has none of her drawbacks.

How is she easier to write? How does Diana have more drawbacks?

[Koriand'r]

How is she easier to write? How does Diana have more drawbacks?

Wonder Woman is an Icon and has to be addressed with a certain amount of reverence. There's a lot to get right and many ways to go wrong. It's like trying to keep multiple plates spinning at the same time with none of them crashing. It's a delicate balance that many good writers have tried and failed.

That doesn't really apply to Artemis although they share the same fan base and mythology. Complaints from the misguided or uninformed about Diana being too perfect or overpowered aren't applicable either. Artemis doesn't have to be written as "nice", or diplomatic, or even political. She's not seen as an avatar of truth, so she can lie and be deceptive. She's free to be humorous, sarcastic, cynical or violent in ways Diana can't. There are more colors in the palette to paint with.

For people that want a nonflying consummate warrior, Artemis has the same ties to mythology and women's empowerment as Diana, without being a goddess on a pedestal. The unsavory elements Azzarello tried to saddle Wonder Woman's world with in the New 52 already naturally existed in Artemis' backstory. She clawed her way out of hell after killing her demon husband and comes from the type of Amazons Azzarello attempted to turn the Themyscirans into. She's a great fit for a darker, more easily approachable kind of storytelling and I think she could carry her own title.

[Jim Kelly]

He's talking about Lilith Clay from the Titans.

I had no idea that Lilith took on a codename. She was alway Lllith to me in the old Titans comics. She doesn't need any other name. Just like Mal. Mal is just Mal, no need for a codename. There should really be a lot more plain clothes characters in super-hero comics.

[byrd156]

Wonder Woman is an Icon and has to be addressed with a certain amount of reverence. There's a lot to get right and many ways to go wrong. It's like trying to keep multiple plates spinning at the same time with none of them crashing. It's a delicate balance that many good writers have tried and failed.

That doesn't really apply to Artemis although they share the same fan base and mythology. Complaints from the misguided or uninformed about Diana being too perfect or overpowered aren't applicable either. Artemis doesn't have to be written as "nice", or diplomatic, or even political. She's not seen as an avatar of truth, so she can lie and be deceptive. She's free to be humorous, sarcastic, cynical or violent in ways Diana can't. There are more colors in the palette to paint with.

For people that want a nonflying consummate warrior, Artemis has the same ties to mythology and women's empowerment as Diana, without being a goddess on a pedestal. The unsavory elements Azzarello tried to saddle Wonder Woman's world with in the New 52 already naturally existed in Artemis' backstory. She clawed her way out of hell after killing her demon husband and comes from the type of Amazons Azzarello attempted to turn the Themyscirans into. She's a great fit for a darker, more easily approachable kind of storytelling and I think she could carry her own title.

So easier to write and approachable means amoral/dark? That doesn't make much sense.

Whether a character is seen as objective good or objective bad or anywhere in between has no baring in the difficulty of writing them. The difficulty in writing a character is the same as any other, well known or otherwise. As long as you follow their established traits, lessons, and flaws that are consistently seen as a part of them.

[Koriand'r]

So easier to write and approachable means amoral/dark? That doesn't make much sense.

Whether a character is seen as objective good or objective bad or anywhere in between has no baring in the difficulty of writing them. The difficulty in writing a character is the same as any other, well known or otherwise. As long as you follow their established traits, lessons, and flaws that are consistently seen as a part of them.

That doesn't happen often in Wonder Woman, that's why she's hard to write.

What I meant by approachable is there was nothing challenging barring your enjoyment of New 52 Wonder Woman, unless you were already a fan. It was billed as a horror comic about the first crime family. Everything was darkened or inverted, all nuance went out the window and it didn't get much deeper than puns, love and the love of puns. Diana's morality was intact but her circumstances weren't.

With Artemis you can tell similar types of stories without alienating decades worth of fans.

[John Ossie]

Wonder Woman is an Icon and has to be addressed with a certain amount of reverence. There's a lot to get right and many ways to go wrong. It's like trying to keep multiple plates spinning at the same time with none of them crashing. It's a delicate balance that many good writers have tried and failed.

That doesn't really apply to Artemis although they share the same fan base and mythology. Complaints from the misguided or uninformed about Diana being too perfect or overpowered aren't applicable either. Artemis doesn't have to be written as "nice", or diplomatic, or even political. She's not seen as an avatar of truth, so she can lie and be deceptive. She's free to be humorous, sarcastic, cynical or violent in ways Diana can't. There are more colors in the palette to paint with.

For people that want a nonflying consummate warrior, Artemis has the same ties to mythology and women's empowerment as Diana, without being a goddess on a pedestal. The unsavory elements Azzarello tried to saddle Wonder Woman's world with in the New 52 already naturally existed in Artemis' backstory. She clawed her way out of hell after killing her demon husband and comes from the type of Amazons Azzarello attempted to turn the Themyscirans into. She's a great fit for a darker, more easily approachable kind of storytelling and I think she could carry her own title.

Plus, she has a big-ass axe so who's going to argue with her? LOL.

Seriously though Artemis is a good pick.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I had no idea that Lilith took on a codename. She was alway Lllith to me in the old Titans comics. She doesn't need any other name. Just like Mal. Mal is just Mal, no need for a codename. There should really be a lot more plain clothes characters in super-hero comics.

Yeah, I think she first took on the name Omen during Jurgens's run on the Titans in the 90s.

[Jim Kelly]

Yeah, I think she first took on the name Omen during Jurgens's run on the Titans in the 90s.

Which is a title I read but not a lot from those years has stuck in my memory.

[OBrianTallent]

Lilith would have been a great character to move forward, and, in another universe, could have been updated into the 'Raven' role in Wolfman & Perez's Teen Titans relaunch. (It's not like finding out that her father was a demon from another dimension would have hugely changed her until-then, non-existent backstory, and, amusingly, she eventually did turn out to have an otherdimensional entity as a parent...)

I kind of liked how her generic 'psychic' or 'sensitive' nature wasn't as clear cut as Marvel universe telepathy, and left a lot of her power in the hands of the writer, who could decide to use her to info-dump as needed, or point the team at a specific threat 'because Lilith had a bad dream' or whatever. Thanks to movies like Next or Minority Report, the use of predictive combat techniques by Jedi, and comic book 'combat precognitives' like Threeboot Dream Girl, Rose Wilson and Negasonic Warhead, even being more of a precognitive than a brain-blaster with a raft of psychic attacks has been recognized as a pretty cool and effective powerset in it's own right, and Lilith could function pretty well in that slot, with a little physical training (perhaps with Dick or Donna).

Too much telepathy and it becomes a case of 'why didn't she see X coming?' and leads to a glut of enemies that are inexplicably resistant to her power. I'd like to keep it well below X-Men levels, but she's got potential!

In another universe, she (and Bumblebee) could have joined Dick, Wally, Donna, and some mix of Garfield, Roy and / or Garth to form a 'new' Teen Titans made up of older classic members, from before the days of Cyborg, Raven and Starfire. While the new 52 Teen Titans didn't exactly soar, I did appreciate the attempt to bring these classic Teen Titans back to the forefront. (Well, maybe not Gnarrk/'Cave Boy.' Some things can stay in the past, and cavemen are definitely one of them...)

This. I dont want Lilith being the generic telepath to fill that role. Her original powers are so much more interesting and diverse. (A series I would love to see, but know it will never happen is Dick Grayson opening a investigations agency with Lilith as his girl Friday/Secretary.) But get her out of that get up she's been wearing and back into something more Lilith looking.
Bumblebee, Karen Beecher. It's a shame DC bowed to Hasbro and pulled the character. No, I dont have proof, but it seems fairly obvious that she disappeared from comics and the DC Super Hero Girls series right after Hasbro started their mess about confusion between her and the Autobot. She and Mal are cool characters and I would love to see DC get back with it. (BUT as has been said...Didio has a massive disdain for anything Titans.)
Fire & Ice. Oh how I wish DC would give these two a mini series. They could easily be a new take on the Birds of Prey concept/super spy type story.
Frankenstein and even more so the Bride. Probably the only series of the New 52 that I outright loved.
Vixen. Always Vixen. It's such an odd thing that DC has such little representation of characters of color be they African, Asian, Middle Eastern or Latin decent.

I could go on and on with Vibe, Gypsy, Stargirl, Cyclone, Bronze Tiger, Nightshade, Black Orchid, Bunker, Creeper, Elongated Man and Sue...DC could do so much more with the characters they have. Unfortunately the heads of DC (or rather the massive head) is so shortsighted that he cant see past his own nose as to the potential the characters have.

[caj]

Which is a title I read but not a lot from those years has stuck in my memory.

Here's Omen's original look during the Jurgens run.



Here's her current look as Omen