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Thread: Batwoman (2019)

  1. #2911
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Sophie went to Wayne Tower for some reason. Clearly, either Ryan or Mary called her to let them know they had recovered Kate.
    Oh, Ok. So I'm assuming once Sophie saw some woman she had never seen before... "You MUST be Kate!" And of course I'm assuming that Sophie will still be attracted to the literal NEW face like she was attracted to the old face. I guess it's a good thing Kate's new face doesn't look like the Emperor's face from Star Wars.
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  2. #2912
    Fantastic Member sorboares's Avatar
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    Yeh I think they called Sophie and told her Kate is alive.
    Tonight's episode was good, I liked it more than the last few.
    I'm glad everyone knows Kate is alive finally.
    I just hope Kate returns to the role of Batwoman and Ryan becomes her own hero.
    It would be cool to see them team up.

  3. #2913
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I'm guessing Kate's going to be too messed up mentally to take back the mantle anytime soon. It might actually be a better story if they take their time moving Kate back into the Batwoman role while laying groundwork for what Ryan will choose to become. (if it goes that way) And of course Batwing's introduction may affect how all this shakes out.

  4. #2914
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I'm guessing Kate's going to be too messed up mentally to take back the mantle anytime soon. It might actually be a better story if they take their time moving Kate back into the Batwoman role while laying groundwork for what Ryan will choose to become. (if it goes that way) And of course Batwing's introduction may affect how all this shakes out.
    Problem I have with that is too many heroes getting focus. The new bat woman, the old bat woman, and batwing. Another poster suggested excising the Kane’s, and while I can’t argue against it, you’re basically going to rip out at least half of the show’s anchors, and leaving Ryan and Luke fighting for dominance. And Alice will still be a wild card with no real purpose.

  5. #2915
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Problem I have with that is too many heroes getting focus. The new bat woman, the old bat woman, and batwing. Another poster suggested excising the Kane’s, and while I can’t argue against it, you’re basically going to rip out at least half of the show’s anchors, and leaving Ryan and Luke fighting for dominance. And Alice will still be a wild card with no real purpose.
    I know a lot of people are sick of Alice, but if this season is any indication, she's actually vital to the storyline that began in the first episode - the healing of the Kane family. This started with the family being torn apart and at this point, the only satisfying conclusion and best justification for Alice being around is so that the whole family can finally deal with what happened to them and find that moment of reconciliation or at least peace. Then Alice can either ride off into the sunset to finally start her life or they'll keep her around in some other capacity, but I think if they manage to pull it off in a satisfying way, it will explain Alice's role on the show, not just as a villain who won't go away.

  6. #2916
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I'm guessing Kate's going to be too messed up mentally to take back the mantle anytime soon. It might actually be a better story if they take their time moving Kate back into the Batwoman role while laying groundwork for what Ryan will choose to become. (if it goes that way) And of course Batwing's introduction may affect how all this shakes out.
    I could see Kate and Ryan teaming up in the final episode of the season to take down Black Mask, with Ryan as Batwoman and Kate- probably just as herself. Then they use the break between seasons as the time Kate 'heals herself', and in an early, or even first episode of Season 3, Kate reclaims the Batwoman mantle. Then, shortly after that, Ryan takes up a new identity, and they work together.

    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    Problem I have with that is too many heroes getting focus. The new bat woman, the old bat woman, and batwing. Another poster suggested excising the Kane’s, and while I can’t argue against it, you’re basically going to rip out at least half of the show’s anchors, and leaving Ryan and Luke fighting for dominance. And Alice will still be a wild card with no real purpose.
    Yeah, but the producers love that on these shows. Arrow started as one guy saving the city; in 8 years, they added 10 other heroes to his team at various times, and introduced many more for small arcs. Same with Flash- started as 1 metahuman protecting his city with a team back at base to support him, to working with multiple other heroes over the years. Supergirl was Kara working with the DEO in Season 1, to having a team of her own by Season 5/6. Black Lightning had the whole family. Stargirl has the JSA, which will be expanding. So with Batwoman introducing more heroes, it actually follows a pattern set by all of the previous shows.

    THE PROBLEM becomes featuring all of the characters in a meaningful way *cough*KidFlash*cough* and/or not forgetting about them in the middle of an episode after specifically featuring dialogue where one character asks the other character not to abandon him *cough*Arsenal*cough*.

  7. #2917
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    You know what surprises me?
    That Alice never goes after the real person responsible for all her trauma - the Joker. I mean, he was the one who knocked her car off the road, everything that happened to her was a consequence of that action.

    I mean sure, I know the out-of-universe reason why she doesn't, but the fact that she has never once even mentioned him is still pretty strange.

  8. #2918
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    It took 14 episodes for me to find some silver linings for this show in S2. For me this episode is the first stone laid for a new foundation. The prior 13 episodes were sifting rubble and clearing the footprint.
    Granted, I just watched all of Krypton on CWSeed and think Wallis Day is a head and shoulders better actor than Ruby Rose(never have liked her, very cardboard).
    We are getting Batwing, presumably Spoiler(jury is out) so lets hope that execution works. Really need to see if they pull off Batwing first before I get too excited but Camrus(Luke) and Rachel(Alice) were frankly, for me, the real reasons to watch S1 anyway.

    Diggle was fun to see. Reading through the thread it seems the rumor his headaches are him ignoring the call of Oa. Hmmm, if so makes sense for him to eventually get to Clark. Someone who could take him to Oa. Of course John Jones could also. How many shows is he going to pop up on? Superman and Supergirl make sense + he's familiar with both due to Crisis. With a GL descendant shown in the Stargirl promo an appearance there also makes sense if they work it in.

    So according to IMDB the season is going to conclude at the end of the month. Also, there is a possible spoiler pic for ep.17 so don't go there if you're avoiding those for this show.
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  9. #2919
    www.taurianfilms.com KabutoRyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    You know what surprises me?
    That Alice never goes after the real person responsible for all her trauma - the Joker. I mean, he was the one who knocked her car off the road, everything that happened to her was a consequence of that action.

    I mean sure, I know the out-of-universe reason why she doesn't, but the fact that she has never once even mentioned him is still pretty strange.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    It took 14 episodes for me to find some silver linings for this show in S2. For me this episode is the first stone laid for a new foundation. The prior 13 episodes were sifting rubble and clearing the footprint.
    Granted, I just watched all of Krypton on CWSeed and think Wallis Day is a head and shoulders better actor than Ruby Rose(never have liked her, very cardboard).
    We are getting Batwing, presumably Spoiler(jury is out) so lets hope that execution works. Really need to see if they pull off Batwing first before I get too excited but Camrus(Luke) and Rachel(Alice) were frankly, for me, the real reasons to watch S1 anyway.

    Diggle was fun to see. Reading through the thread it seems the rumor his headaches are him ignoring the call of Oa. Hmmm, if so makes sense for him to eventually get to Clark. Someone who could take him to Oa. Of course John Jones could also. How many shows is he going to pop up on? Superman and Supergirl make sense + he's familiar with both due to Crisis. With a GL descendant shown in the Stargirl promo an appearance there also makes sense if they work it in.

    So according to IMDB the season is going to conclude at the end of the month. Also, there is a possible spoiler pic for ep.17 so don't go there if you're avoiding those for this show.
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  10. #2920
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    You know what surprises me?
    That Alice never goes after the real person responsible for all her trauma - the Joker. I mean, he was the one who knocked her car off the road, everything that happened to her was a consequence of that action.

    I mean sure, I know the out-of-universe reason why she doesn't, but the fact that she has never once even mentioned him is still pretty strange.
    If I remember correctly, Batman killed the Joker in this universe. That is why he vanished- he became the thing he spent most of his life hunting. Never mind the fact that the Joker deserved it.

  11. #2921
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It was nice to see Diggle again after so long even if it was kind of surreal to just randomly see him in Gotham in a cop bar (did he get in with his Argus credentials?). Like, he isn't even there for anything Batwoman related, he just stumbles into seeing Luke and gives him a much-needed life lesson after giving a patented John Diggle gut-punch to Taveroff. Diggle probably had no idea Luke was even involved with Batwoman until the end. The only hero Kate was really close to was Kara and I'm not sure how well any other hero was aware of her whole operation. And I'm surprised no one mentioned him being Spartan.

    I've kind of grown tired of the whole "guy in the chair" cliche over the years, and it really kind of sinks in how arbitrary the role is when Luke bows out and Ryan and Mary can literally do everything with just a push of the button. Like, it makes it seem so simple and easy rather than something vital and important to where it seems like they didn't even need Luke. I guess they're transitioning him to the field as Batwing so maybe that's part of it, but still.

    I'd been wondering to myself if Safiyah was ever going to be relevant again, but it turns out she's been Black Mask's silent partner the whole time and she helped him grab Kate. So, really, she was responsible and did have Kate, just not in the way she led Alice to believe.

    I have to give props to Wallis Day for being able to do a solid impression of Ruby Rose's Kate and also do "Circe."

    I wasn't expecting Tatiana to come back and to actually be intimidating...even if Alice still kills her in, like, one second. I guess sometimes it doesn't pay to get out of a coma.

    I don't think Jacob Kane ever expected to meet Beth's boyfriend, but he got to have the appropriate fatherly reaction. Was he ever that way with Kate's girlfriends?

    Bringing things full circle where now Alice is acknowledging the Beth part of her and trying to save Kate from a projecting of Cartwright's house.

    How are they going to stop Black Mask if he has the police in his pocket? Other than I guess killing him.

    Poor Kate now has to ride passenger-side in the Batmobile when she never even knew it was in her cave the entire time she was Batwoman.

    Sorry Mary, it looks like step-sister love has been trounced by romantic love as Kate immediately recognizes Sophie.

    How many times is Jacob going to get arrested and thrown in prison? Him being transferred to Metropolis feels like setup for a Superman and Lois crossover Although it looks like there's a fight next week so maybe the transfer doesn't happen?

    Jacob finally redeems himself to Beth by acknowledging he failed her on live television but also saying she's not completely at fault for what she's done and is better than that. Finding out how Alice is the result of a mind whammy probably helped, but it seems like Alice may have finally forgiven her father.

    The Bat Team having the Desert Rose was probably too convenient from a plot perspective so no surprise they had to eventually give it away.

    I get it was also Kate's symbol, but Ryan realizes Bruce Wayne created it too, right? So your carrying his symbol to begin with. I dunno, feels like we're getting further and further from Batman being relevant, which I guess is the point?

    I know Ryan is usually specific goal-oriented and she had no reason to care about Ocean versus Kate, but...would she really knowingly let a guy die? I'm not saying Ocean was a good guy, but I don't think he deserved to be assassinated off-screen. I guess we can't have Alice completely happy and mentally stable.

    Safiyah is all about women having the right to choose unless it's Alice who spurred her affection by kissing her brother. Then she's perfectly comfortable with brainwashing.

  12. #2922
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It was nice to see Diggle again after so long even if it was kind of surreal to just randomly see him in Gotham in a cop bar (did he get in with his Argus credentials?). Like, he isn't even there for anything Batwoman related, he just stumbles into seeing Luke and gives him a much-needed life lesson after giving a patented John Diggle gut-punch to Taveroff. Diggle probably had no idea Luke was even involved with Batwoman until the end. The only hero Kate was really close to was Kara and I'm not sure how well any other hero was aware of her whole operation. And I'm surprised no one mentioned him being Spartan.

    I've kind of grown tired of the whole "guy in the chair" cliche over the years, and it really kind of sinks in how arbitrary the role is when Luke bows out and Ryan and Mary can literally do everything with just a push of the button. Like, it makes it seem so simple and easy rather than something vital and important to where it seems like they didn't even need Luke. I guess they're transitioning him to the field as Batwing so maybe that's part of it, but still.

    I'd been wondering to myself if Safiyah was ever going to be relevant again, but it turns out she's been Black Mask's silent partner the whole time and she helped him grab Kate. So, really, she was responsible and did have Kate, just not in the way she led Alice to believe.

    I have to give props to Wallis Day for being able to do a solid impression of Ruby Rose's Kate and also do "Circe."

    I wasn't expecting Tatiana to come back and to actually be intimidating...even if Alice still kills her in, like, one second. I guess sometimes it doesn't pay to get out of a coma.

    I don't think Jacob Kane ever expected to meet Beth's boyfriend, but he got to have the appropriate fatherly reaction. Was he ever that way with Kate's girlfriends?

    Bringing things full circle where now Alice is acknowledging the Beth part of her and trying to save Kate from a projecting of Cartwright's house.

    How are they going to stop Black Mask if he has the police in his pocket? Other than I guess killing him.

    Poor Kate now has to ride passenger-side in the Batmobile when she never even knew it was in her cave the entire time she was Batwoman.

    Sorry Mary, it looks like step-sister love has been trounced by romantic love as Kate immediately recognizes Sophie.

    How many times is Jacob going to get arrested and thrown in prison? Him being transferred to Metropolis feels like setup for a Superman and Lois crossover Although it looks like there's a fight next week so maybe the transfer doesn't happen?

    Jacob finally redeems himself to Beth by acknowledging he failed her on live television but also saying she's not completely at fault for what she's done and is better than that. Finding out how Alice is the result of a mind whammy probably helped, but it seems like Alice may have finally forgiven her father.

    The Bat Team having the Desert Rose was probably too convenient from a plot perspective so no surprise they had to eventually give it away.

    I get it was also Kate's symbol, but Ryan realizes Bruce Wayne created it too, right? So your carrying his symbol to begin with. I dunno, feels like we're getting further and further from Batman being relevant, which I guess is the point?

    I know Ryan is usually specific goal-oriented and she had no reason to care about Ocean versus Kate, but...would she really knowingly let a guy die? I'm not saying Ocean was a good guy, but I don't think he deserved to be assassinated off-screen. I guess we can't have Alice completely happy and mentally stable.

    Safiyah is all about women having the right to choose unless it's Alice who spurred her affection by kissing her brother. Then she's perfectly comfortable with brainwashing.
    I seem to remember Ryan asking Mary how to access the internet with the bat computer. I mean, she's not that good. But yeah, so much for sophisticated equipment. Other than Sophie, I don't think Kate ever introduced her father to her girlfriends.

  13. #2923
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    I mean the Joker is most probably as "dead" as he ever is, but even if he was, that Alice never even mentions him is still odd.

  14. #2924
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    I mean the Joker is most probably as "dead" as he ever is, but even if he was, that Alice never even mentions him is still odd.
    I think it's probably because she channeled all her rage toward her family and the Cartwright's for what happened to her. Like, it was Cartwright that beheaded her mom.

  15. #2925
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Luke looks...I don't know, younger? Shorter? When he's not in his usual clothes. I'm enjoying his journey, and Diggle was awesome, as always.

    I loved how polite Ocean was to Jacob. I keep going back and forth over this "extra push" driving Beth to becoming Alice. In some ways it makes sense but in other ways I'd prefer if it weren't there. What's going on inside Kate is pretty crazy, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'd definately dig Bat-Family show using secondary characters. Make Ryan either Batwoman 2 or, preferably, her own character; bring back Stephanie as Spoiler, and do a faithful adaptation of Cassandra Cain. All of the other characters are either in use elsewhere (Dick, Tim, Jason and Barbara on Titans) or forbidden (Batman, though I guess he sort of appeared on Titans). Maybe bring back Bruce, reveal he can't be Batman anymore due to injury, and play him like Old Bruce in Batman Beyond- he can be the man in the chair while Kate, Ryan, and Luke are out in the field.
    Bruce is too young to do Old Man Bruce (and we've already seen Kevin Conroy nearly in that role in Crisis), but maybe a post-Knightfall Bruce? I want resolution to his story, but I don't want him to be a supporting character on the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I'm guessing Kate's going to be too messed up mentally to take back the mantle anytime soon. It might actually be a better story if they take their time moving Kate back into the Batwoman role while laying groundwork for what Ryan will choose to become. (if it goes that way) And of course Batwing's introduction may affect how all this shakes out.
    That could be respectable to both Kate and Ryan. I also expect them to bring up the fact that both Batwomen have played important roles by talking to the press and revealing themselves to the crowd. Gothamites will be happy to see Kate back as the original Batwoman but should also know the new Batwoman is still there protecting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It was nice to see Diggle again after so long even if it was kind of surreal to just randomly see him in Gotham in a cop bar (did he get in with his Argus credentials?). Like, he isn't even there for anything Batwoman related, he just stumbles into seeing Luke and gives him a much-needed life lesson after giving a patented John Diggle gut-punch to Taveroff. Diggle probably had no idea Luke was even involved with Batwoman until the end. The only hero Kate was really close to was Kara and I'm not sure how well any other hero was aware of her whole operation. And I'm surprised no one mentioned him being Spartan.
    I'm finding it hard to remember which supporting member has met which! As cool as the Bat signal morse code thing was, it's kind of sloppy when it comes to protecting Luke's involvement.

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