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Thread: Batwoman (2019)

  1. #3226
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    Jealousy isn't a good look on Ryan, but this episode does seem to paint the Sophie/Montoya pairing as something brief and shallow.
    Montoya's probably not in a headspace/too career focused to be in a relationship right now. Meanwhile Sophie has, like, no career outside helping Ryan and the Bat-Team.
    Poor Luke, he has been racking up losses left and right. Without access to the Batcave, Batwoman is going to need his help now more than ever.
    Now that I think about it, the Batwing suit is probably still in the cave.
    Didn't Crisis establish that was on another Earth? That was a weird throwaway line to mention Swamp Thing like that, but then, they did the same with Aquaman.
    Arrowverse world-building that they never intend to follow up on. Like GL .

  2. #3227
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    Sorry, but I still don't feel Mary just going along with Alice. Making her a villain is one thing, but just being BFF's with her mom's killer, especially when it was established that people that do her even the slightest perceived injustice, like rejecting dating her.....yeah, feels kinda forced.

    Also not feeling Marquis as a Joker-wannabe so far.

    But let's just wait until January for further judgement.

  3. #3228
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    Sorry, but I still don't feel Mary just going along with Alice. Making her a villain is one thing, but just being BFF's with her mom's killer, especially when it was established that people that do her even the slightest perceived injustice, like rejecting dating her.....yeah, feels kinda forced.

    Also not feeling Marquis as a Joker-wannabe so far.

    But let's just wait until January for further judgement.
    I guess her feelings of abandonment and having Alice as the only one in her corner offsets any lingering resentment or hatred...but considering how much her mom's death hurt her, it's hard to buy that.

    It feels like Alice's character development in season 2 never happened.

  4. #3229
    Amazing Member thefinalguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    Sorry, but I still don't feel Mary just going along with Alice. Making her a villain is one thing, but just being BFF's with her mom's killer, especially when it was established that people that do her even the slightest perceived injustice, like rejecting dating her.....yeah, feels kinda forced.

    Also not feeling Marquis as a Joker-wannabe so far.

    But let's just wait until January for further judgement.
    It's annoying they keep pushing Alice towards them like she didn't have a hand in killing Mary and Ryan's (?) mothers. There's no rehabilitation for her and even with a decent line here or two I can't help but think about the pain it causes the rest of the cast, we need development.

    I get they probably wanna keep Skarsten around but getting rid of Beth in s1 killed that down the line. The show can't rely on the performance of one person especially not a polarizing villain that can't have a heel-turn anytime soon.

    BL kinda did this with Tobias and it was annoying because we were in the same place in season 4 as we were in seasons 1 and 2. I like this season but Alice's story is done.

  5. #3230
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Mary's willingness to work with Alice just said to me that she's losing herself. She began acting in her own self-interest as this new persona, not tied to the feelings or morality that belonged to Mary. We'd already seen her willingness to hurt Ryan and Luke, which not only goes against friendship, but her oath as a doctor. When Mary brought the conversation around to how Alice killed her mother, Alice appealed to Mary's new sense of self-preservation which was more of an immediate concern, something that Poison Mary would prioritize, so ...I can buy it.

    The thing I didn't buy was Mary not wanting to open the door to the cop. She had been using her pheromone powers for hours and could have easily talked their way out of the situation. The show just needed the situation to escalate by running him over.

  6. #3231
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefinalguy View Post
    It's annoying they keep pushing Alice towards them like she didn't have a hand in killing Mary and Ryan's (?) mothers. There's no rehabilitation for her and even with a decent line here or two I can't help but think about the pain it causes the rest of the cast, we need development.

    I get they probably wanna keep Skarsten around but getting rid of Beth in s1 killed that down the line. The show can't rely on the performance of one person especially not a polarizing villain that can't have a heel-turn anytime soon.

    BL kinda did this with Tobias and it was annoying because we were in the same place in season 4 as we were in seasons 1 and 2. I like this season but Alice's story is done.
    I mean, Alice made some headway to reconciling herself back to being Beth or trying to be a better person last season but that seems a non-factor this season with her basically acting like it's still season 1 and only really being out for herself.

    It does feel like the show is working itself in knots trying to justify her still being around and interacting with the cast even if it comes off forced both in-universe and out. It really doesn't make a lot of sense how much leeway the cast gives Alice sometimes when she hardly ever works to earn any good will. And every step forward from Alice usually leads to two steps back.
    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Mary's willingness to work with Alice just said to me that she's losing herself. She began acting in her own self-interest as this new persona, not tied to the feelings or morality that belonged to Mary. We'd already seen her willingness to hurt Ryan and Luke, which not only goes against friendship, but her oath as a doctor. When Mary brought the conversation around to how Alice killed her mother, Alice appealed to Mary's new sense of self-preservation which was more of an immediate concern, something that Poison Mary would prioritize, so ...I can buy it.

    The thing I didn't buy was Mary not wanting to open the door to the cop. She had been using her pheromone powers for hours and could have easily talked their way out of the situation. The show just needed the situation to escalate by running him over.
    I got the sense that Alice deliberately pushed Mary to do it before she even had time to think. On-top of that we also see how they basically leave him without even calling for medical aid, which is something the real Mary would never do.

  7. #3232
    www.taurianfilms.com KabutoRyder's Avatar
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    Finally got to catch up with the episode and as others have opined about Alice...and to what I have thought since season one...her presence is an albatross upon the show. Not sure what value the execs feel she gives to the show at this point, but this is definitely well past Merlyn level overstaying their welcome.

    I enjoyed the episode from the aspect that it was people trying to 'save' their loved ones from themselves, while the loved ones, Marcus and Mary thought their true self was their best self. The only knock to that is their best selves are psychos.

    Wondering what Marcus's ultimate plan will be. Hopefully not some gas that will cause mass panic and rioting a la Joker having fun and wanting Gotham to have fun and smile as well.

    And then we get to some of the stupid CW-isms as they need the characters to be in the same place so while Mary and Alice escaped Gotham and their pursuers, because plot, they are going to waltz right back into Gotham. That to me is dumb, but it's a necessary evil we need to deal with.

    All in all I am still digging the season and curious as to where they go with Marcus and Mary and hope they can stick the landing of some interesting set ups.


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  8. #3233
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KabutoRyder View Post
    Finally got to catch up with the episode and as others have opined about Alice...and to what I have thought since season one...her presence is an albatross upon the show. Not sure what value the execs feel she gives to the show at this point, but this is definitely well past Merlyn level overstaying their welcome.

    Wondering what Marcus's ultimate plan will be. Hopefully not some gas that will cause mass panic and rioting a la Joker having fun and wanting Gotham to have fun and smile as well.

    All in all I am still digging the season and curious as to where they go with Marcus and Mary and hope they can stick the landing of some interesting set ups.


    Alice sticking around would have made more sense if the main character was still Kate Kane. But since the showrunners have done everything they can to erase the Kane family from this show, it makes no sense for her to still be there. She should have been locked up in Arkham at the end of last season, and that should have been the last we saw of her. Instead, we get this story of Montoya pulling a 24 Hours gimmick with Alice as Eddie Murphy, and Ryan as Nick Nolte. And how has Montoya not gotten fired for this yet? If Alice is now running around with Poison Ivy 2.0, I'd say her brilliant plan has blown up in her face.

    It's Joker War. Joker 2.0 now has control of Wayne Enterprises (for... reasons). He'll find the cave and all the tech and use it to declare war on Gotham. And maybe Ivy will be an anti-hero and help Batwoman against him in the end.

    Maybe Marcus, but doubtful about Mary, especially since they already announced they cast an actress as Ivy. Mary will be relegated to sidekick and/or background damsel in distress by the end of the season.

  9. #3234
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KabutoRyder View Post
    Finally got to catch up with the episode and as others have opined about Alice...and to what I have thought since season one...her presence is an albatross upon the show. Not sure what value the execs feel she gives to the show at this point, but this is definitely well past Merlyn level overstaying their welcome....
    All in all I am still digging the season and curious as to where they go with Marcus and Mary and hope they can stick the landing of some interesting set ups.
    Alice isn't Merlyn - she's Spike. She's just part of the cast now, through whatever contrivance - chip in the brain, nanobots in the blood, etc. She's ultimately "The Cordelia" - the person in the gang who's emotionally detached enough from the story to not care about them so she can deliver the snarky comedic relief. Personally, I like her presence.

    And I don't think I'm crazy, but his name is pronounced "Marcus" but it's spelled "Marquis" (I think ... it sounds almost too stupid to be true, but I think it is)

    And while I like Poison Mary's outfit (the top more than the bottom), emerging from a Motel bathroom was very much less than impressive. C'mon show -- think!

  10. #3235
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Alice isn't Merlyn - she's Spike. She's just part of the cast now, through whatever contrivance - chip in the brain, nanobots in the blood, etc. She's ultimately "The Cordelia" - the person in the gang who's emotionally detached enough from the story to not care about them so she can deliver the snarky comedic relief. Personally, I like her presence.
    I just wish it seemed like they were developing her more because there's only so much of her being awful and just generally more of a hindrance than a help that I feel like the show can justify, and it seems like she was actually making progress in season 2 before that was seemingly undone.
    And I don't think I'm crazy, but his name is pronounced "Marcus" but it's spelled "Marquis" (I think ... it sounds almost too stupid to be true, but I think it is)
    I guess they were trying to make him sound "fancy" because he's rich.
    And while I like Poison Mary's outfit (the top more than the bottom), emerging from a Motel bathroom was very much less than impressive. C'mon show -- think!
    ...Because she looks like a hooker?

  11. #3236
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    ...Because she looks like a hooker?
    I don't know your life, but I ain't never seen a hooker dressed like that irl .... (hey, you don't know my life neither! )

  12. #3237
    Fantastic Member Twice-named's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just wish it seemed like they were developing her more because there's only so much of her being awful and just generally more of a hindrance than a help that I feel like the show can justify, and it seems like she was actually making progress in season 2 before that was seemingly undone.
    Perhaps the subplot of Alice hallucinating postcards from her father will lead to redemption.
    "It's not my Kate." - Greg Rucka

  13. #3238
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I don't know your life, but I ain't never seen a hooker dressed like that irl .... (hey, you don't know my life neither! )
    Well, unless you paid them I guess (I don't have much experience) .
    Quote Originally Posted by Twice-named View Post
    Perhaps the subplot of Alice hallucinating postcards from her father will lead to redemption.
    I'm ready for her to get some character development at this point.

  14. #3239
    www.taurianfilms.com KabutoRyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just wish it seemed like they were developing her more because there's only so much of her being awful and just generally more of a hindrance than a help that I feel like the show can justify, and it seems like she was actually making progress in season 2 before that was seemingly undone.
    You thought Ninja Island Alice was progress? lolz

    The only thing I could see Alice for would pertain to Ryan's development and this idea of her brother turning psycho villain. End of the season he is locked up in Arkham or maybe he is out roaming free...and then you have fallout from that and the hypocrisy of Ryan's (from early last season) view and anger about Alice being allowed to live and roam around and then turn and have Ryan unable to kill/capture her brother...that would provide some growth for her understanding Kate's plight...but i think that's a bit too nuanced for the CW
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  15. #3240
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    Quote Originally Posted by KabutoRyder View Post
    You thought Ninja Island Alice was progress? lolz

    The only thing I could see Alice for would pertain to Ryan's development and this idea of her brother turning psycho villain. End of the season he is locked up in Arkham or maybe he is out roaming free...and then you have fallout from that and the hypocrisy of Ryan's (from early last season) view and anger about Alice being allowed to live and roam around and then turn and have Ryan unable to kill/capture her brother...that would provide some growth for her understanding Kate's plight...but i think that's a bit too nuanced for the CW
    I guess maybe it would let Ryan be more sympathetic to Alice's mental issues and inability to cope with them seeing what happened to her brother. Because she's never really cared otherwise.

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