Batwoman (2019)

[KabutoRyder]

I am in it for Ruby Rose. Plus I think at this point they need to do a Batman series instead of the movies with the story potential and his rogue's gallery and this is as close as we will get to one.

[protege]

I am in it for Ruby Rose. Plus I think at this point they need to do a Batman series instead of the movies with the story potential and his rogue's gallery and this is as close as we will get to one.

I wonder which if his rogue’s gallery, they’ll be allowed to use.

[KabutoRyder]

I wonder which if his rogue’s gallery, they’ll be allowed to use.

****, hopefully a lot of em, seeings how the most they wanna do in the movies it seems is Joker.

[Vworp Vworp]

Wow.

This does not look good at all. Rose's acting is still lacking any conviction/charisma/levels/just anything - and Batwoman's reworked origin of "Kate finds the Batcave and uses Batman's stuff" really isn't a great take.

And seriously. I'm someone that the kind of people who use the term SJW would immediately describe as an SJW - and even I found the "I'm not going to let a man take credit for a woman's work" stuff just really, really forced.

Based on the trailer though, I'd be up for an Alice series instead.

[Caivu]

Rose's acting is still lacking any conviction/charisma/levels/just anything

Really? Kate's generally a pretty stoic character, so I think it's appropriate. It worked in Elseworlds.

and Batwoman's reworked origin of "Kate finds the Batcave and uses Batman's stuff" really isn't a great take.

I can kinda see what they may have been going for: in the comics, Jacob gives her the Batwoman identity, and helps train her. Here, neither of those seem to be the case. That's a change that will have to be addressed, but it does streamline things from an adaptation standpoint and puts that decision more in Kate's hands, neither of which are inherently bad things.

And seriously. I'm someone that the kind of people who use the term SJW would immediately describe as an SJW - and even I found the "I'm not going to let a man take credit for a woman's work" stuff just really, really forced.

True, but this is also a younger Kate than we saw in Elseworlds, where none of that was present. Maybe she just mellows out.

[Vworp Vworp]

Really? Kate's generally a pretty stoic character, so I think it's appropriate. It worked in Elseworlds.

Stoicism isn't the absence of emotion, it's the control of them. And come on, this clearly isn't a deeply layered performance suggesting Kate is hiding her true feelings behind a mask (no pun intended). It's just... bland. The dialogue ain't great but if it was being delivered by someone imbuing it with even a little character, it might have been bearable. Just look at Benoist over on Supergirl. So much in that show has been painful to watch since season two, but Melissa always delivers a performance far better than the writing deserves.

I can kinda see what they may have been going for: in the comics, Jacob gives her the Batwoman identity, and helps train her. Here, neither of those seem to be the case. That's a change that will have to be addressed, but it does streamline things from an adaptation standpoint and puts that decision more in Kate's hands, neither of which are inherently bad things.

What it does is solidify the idea of Batwoman as a substitute Batman, which is surely exactly what the show should be avoiding.

True, but this is also a younger Kate than we saw in Elseworlds, where none of that was present. Maybe she just mellows out.

It's not about her personality, it's just really awful dialogue. We know how strong Kate is (well, comic-book Kate at least) - let her actions define who she is, not how she feels about who's getting the credit.

[Anarchist]

A little corny dialogue, sure, but still looks fun as hell

[Caivu]

Stoicism isn't the absence of emotion, it's the control of them.

...which means you don't express much emotion.

And come on, this clearly isn't a deeply layered performance suggesting Kate is hiding her true feelings behind a mask (no pun intended).

Not expressing your emotions doesn't mean you're hiding them or something, as contradictory as that might sound. I myself am a pretty stoic person, and I'm generally happy, but often don't look like it; not because I'm trying to hide it or something, that's just how it is. Lots of people, without any sort of disorder or what-have-you, just aren't emotionally that reactive.

One of Kate's traits in the comics is that she's naturally angry and violent, but cultivated a high degree of self-discipline by following Jacob's example. That's what I see here.

What it does is solidify the idea of Batwoman as a substitute Batman, which is surely exactly what the show should be avoiding.

But she's explicitly acting as a substitute Batman here. That's why she's doing this in the first place, because Batman isn't around, and someone needs to fill that void (similar to her intro in 52). It's totally reasonable for her to start out that way and then grow into her own role, which is kinda what we see has happened by the time of Elseworlds.

It's not about her personality, it's just really awful dialogue. We know how strong Kate is (well, comic-book Kate at least) - let her actions define who she is, not how she feels about who's getting the credit.

Again, that might very well be an area she grows and matures in.

[Miles To Go]

Alice acted Rose right off the screen.

[Vworp Vworp]

One of Kate's traits in the comics is that she's naturally angry and violent, but cultivated a high degree of self-discipline by following Jacob's example. That's what I see here.

Kate in the comics is not a one-note wannabe Vulcan with zero charisma. Which is what Rose is playing here. Yes, there exists the very slim possibility that this characterisation is intentional and it's actually the writers/director who have got Kate all wrong. But based on the actual dialogue and Ruby's body of work prior to this, I'm inclined to think it's just down to Ruby's non-performance.

I guess in a weird way I should be grateful. As I alluded to earlier in this thread, and as I may have mentioned on the board previously, the only thing more frustrating than how bad Supergirl has been for the last three years is how good Melissa has been in spite of the awful, awful writing. Cos that just makes it so much worse, to have this perfect casting be so utterly wasted for episode after episode after episode.

At least with Batwoman, I can't imagine myself ever feeling that Ruby's acting deserves better.

Alice acted Rose right off the screen.

Yes. Yes she did.

[protege]

Alice acted Rose right off the screen.

I’m sure a lot of people complained about rachel skaarsten’s acting when she started on “ birds of prey.”, which i find kind of ironic.

[Caivu]

Kate in the comics is not a one-note wannabe Vulcan with zero charisma. Which is what Rose is playing here.

I seriously don't know where you're getting "one-note" or "zero charisma", etc from her performance.

I’m sure a lot of people complained about rachel skaarsten’s acting when she started on “ birds of prey.”, which i find kind of ironic.

Yeah, and it's not like Kate and Alice are different characters, with different personalities, and will therefore be played differently. It's not like Alice is supposed to be hammy and exaggerated, and Kate isn't.

[KabutoRyder]

I seriously don't know where you're getting "one-note" or "zero charisma", etc from her performance.



Yeah, and it's not like Kate and Alice are different characters, with different personalities, and will therefore be played differently. It's not like Alice is supposed to be hammy and exaggerated, and Kate isn't.

Woa there buddy. This is an internet messageboard. Don't you dare bring any of the logic crap into this dojo.

[Vworp Vworp]

I seriously don't know where you're getting "one-note" or "zero charisma", etc from her performance.

Because it's one-note and has zero charisma.

But look, if you've somehow imbued Rose's performance with something that is clearly not there, then fair play. Because if that's the level you consider good enough to play a character as complex and interesting as Kate, then I think this show is gonna be completely bulletproof for you. And in that regard, you're actually very lucky.

[Caivu]

Because it's one-note and has zero charisma.

Those two points have already been contradicted in Elseworlds. The Kate there was confident, flirty, had a dry sense of humor, was emotionally open with those she liked (in that case, Kara), and did not abide foolishness, perceived or otherwise. All those are true of comic!Kate, even if they're not the full picture.

This trailer does similarly. We still see some of that confidence and snark, but it's joined by heroic impulsiveness and even a bit of jealousy and arrogance, given her remarks about the suit and not wanting Batman to get credit for her work.

The last two for sure skew away from the comics, but they're still valid flaws that she can grow from as the series progresses.