Batwoman (2019)

[Frontier]

When exactly did mouse replace Jacob?

In the prior episode. We saw Jacob driving to find Alice/Beth at the end of the last episode, confirming the one we saw in Gotham was fake.

That was a great dress.

Alice is trying to win the award for most stylish character on the show. In making her the "feminine" twin they've had her take away all of Kate's style points from the comics .

I really feel like they were trying to pull a Moira Queen with Catherine, but it just didn't work. With Moira, we had almost two full seasons to get to know her, to lover her, to hate her, to see her complicated relationships with her children. So when she was killed, I was genuinely upset. But with Catherine, we've had, what, 7 episodes where we see she's a morally grey person who by inserting herself in the search for Beth ended up causing her to be held prisoner for 11 years and who's company makes WMD's and guns that can kill Batman (or Batwoman). And yes- her death is said, and I do feel sorry for both her and Mary, but I just don't feel it in the same way I felt Moira's death.

On top of that, no offense to the actress, but she's no Susana Thompson.

Not only didn't she accomplish anything, it can be argued that she indirectly caused Catherine's death and her father's incarceration by not informing the authorities as to where a wanted terrorist was hiding.

Alice is like Kate's Malcolm Merlyn .

To be fair, he probably just found out about Catherine's death not long before Kate came to visit him, and that's me assuming the cops told him when he was arrested. It's probably still sinking in.

To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't say "you're under arrest for the murder of your wife" when they arrested him.

[Caivu]

To be honest, I'm surprised they didn't say "you're under arrest for the murder of your wife" when they arrested him.

That could be a clue that the GCPD are in on it with Alice.

[Toreador]

I'm finding it odd that Beth/Alice is blaming Jacob and Kate for not rescuing her years ago but doesn't seem to place any blame on Mouse's father. Jacob and Kate were looking for a lost/injured/dead girl, not a kidnapped victim. Two totally different types of searches.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Hmm...Mary may not be my favorite character on this show (I'm not actually sure who is), but as of this episode, she's the most sympathetic. That was rough. I was hoping she would be able to split the cure so there would be enough for both her and Catherine, but no, Catherine is dead. I don't know if there's any hope of Alice (or Beth) coming back from this.

Anyone else wondering how long the Crows will last?
Do you think they'll be around permanently like the DEO for Supergirl, or do you think they'll get wiped-out by some super-villains? I'm wondering because there's been mention in some interviews of a GCPD commissioner making an appearance later in the season, and in one of the recent episodes the GCPD lit the bat-signal. Also, in the comics the Crows/Colony are never around for too long.

I think they will last as long as Tyler does. Maybe prove to be inefficient or something around the same time Sophie gets definitive proof that Kate is Batwoman. Then Sophie starts spending more time in the Batcave helping Batwoman while Tyler and the Crows try to win her back.

Huh, just occurred to me, the Supergirl show took both the DEO and Maggie. Plus, I always felt in the early seasons Alex was kinda like a Batwoman-Lite in some ways. Well, Arrow took a number of Batman stories and characters, and Supergirl took Superman characters and stories. Maybe for Batwoman they can take some Green Arrow stories, and if there's anything suitable from the Supergirl comics.

Batwoman could easily take Nightwing, Batgirl, and Birds of Prey villains and stories. I'd like to see Killer Moth and Lady Vic.

"Boo hoo! My father and sister were in the same house I was being kept as a prisoner and refused to use their imaginary psychic/x-ray powers to find me!!!"

Alice is clearly traumatized, though. I mean, at a young age, she saw her mother decapitated and was then kidnapped. Of course that's going to drive her nuts.

"Joker, Riddler...Alice." What, no mention of Two-Face? Penguin? Do we not mention that name after his mayoral debacle?

I'd like to think in this continuity, Two-Face was cured and went back to being Harvey Dent.

[Caivu]

I'm finding it odd that Beth/Alice is blaming Jacob and Kate for not rescuing her years ago but doesn't seem to place any blame on Mouse's father. Jacob and Kate were looking for a lost/injured/dead girl, not a kidnapped victim. Two totally different types of searches.

Beth was held captive for over a decade by a man who could easily have brainwashed her, especially after Kate and Jacob actually made it to the house and left. Twisting that scenario into "See? Your family doesn't want you" would not have been difficult at all.

[Bat-Meal]

Alice is trying to win the award for most stylish character on the show. In making her the "feminine" twin they've had her take away all of Kate's style points from the comics .

I hope they mix things-up a bit more in the wardrobe department going forward. Sure, in the comics Kate wears suits, and jackets, jeans, and sneakers - but she also wears dresses every so often. Variety is good.

If Renee ever shows-up, I hope Kate is in the classic red dress of her debut:



She was in a dress at least once in the original solo run as well (a plum sort of color), and also a couple of times in the 'Tec Tynion run (green one, and a black/dark purple one).

[The Darknight Detective]

Alice is clearly traumatized, though. I mean, at a young age, she saw her mother decapitated and was then kidnapped. Of course that's going to drive her nuts.

I agree it's not the same as Lena's plight, but I just wish the others would at least attempt to explain to Alice they did the best they could.

[KabutoRyder]

Mary for me has become one of the more interesting characters now. Makes me wonder where she will go. I thought she was going to be the healer on Team Batwoman. (Cuz as we all know, all the Arrowverse shows have MMO-type built teams) and she still might be. But her being on the outs with Kate right now because of Kate's hypocrisy, I wonder what will happen when she finds out Kate is Batwoman and that she had chances to put Alice down or bring her in, failed to do so by choice and not so by choice, and that lead to her mother's death.

I know it didn't directly lead to it, but Mary can make the claim that it was a factor. Of course the argument against anything going on IMHO is Catherine kicked off this entire **** storm because she wanted to jump Jacob's bones. Had she not lied about the bones, Jacob keeps looking, maybe he finds her. (yes yes, maybe he doesn't) but Catherine's shady ish certainly had a large hand in this.

Wondering if any of this gets explored going forth as Mary and Kate come to whatever their relationship will be or evolve to be.

Sophie and her hubs, I don't care in the slightest. We knew what was going to happen. Sophie for me from an acting standpoint is a weak link of the show and just my general concern about her is the lowest in the Arrowverse.

[Anarchist]

Well NOW Kate stops trying to treat Mary like ****. A bit late, ain't it?

Also, I take everything I said about Alice previously back. I now think she IS interesting enough to carry the whole season. As the whole redemption stuff is now out of the window.

[AnakinFlair]

I'm finding it odd that Beth/Alice is blaming Jacob and Kate for not rescuing her years ago but doesn't seem to place any blame on Mouse's father. Jacob and Kate were looking for a lost/injured/dead girl, not a kidnapped victim. Two totally different types of searches.

Beth was held captive for over a decade by a man who could easily have brainwashed her, especially after Kate and Jacob actually made it to the house and left. Twisting that scenario into "See? Your family doesn't want you" would not have been difficult at all.

It could be a form of Stockholm Syndrome. It could also be that she already killed Mouse's father.

Well NOW Kate stops trying to treat Mary like ****. A bit late, ain't it?

Also, I take everything I said about Alice previously back. I now think she IS interesting enough to carry the whole season. As the whole redemption stuff is now out of the window.

Never say Never. How many people did Black Siren kill, and how many bad guys did she willingly work for? She still got her redemption arc. And Alice in the comics did some very bad things, and they still managed to redeem her there.

[Anarchist]

Good point too.

Maybe I was just trying to forget it
Still hate that arc in Season 6.

[Frontier]

Hmm...Mary may not be my favorite character on this show (I'm not actually sure who is), but as of this episode, she's the most sympathetic. That was rough. I was hoping she would be able to split the cure so there would be enough for both her and Catherine, but no, Catherine is dead. I don't know if there's any hope of Alice (or Beth) coming back from this.

The most reasonable solution is Kate ends up locking Alice in Arkham, which I guess would cement Alice as her Joker.

Batwoman could easily take Nightwing, Batgirl, and Birds of Prey villains and stories. I'd like to see Killer Moth and Lady Vic.

I wonder if they could make the Double Dare twins work.

I'd like to think in this continuity, Two-Face was cured and went back to being Harvey Dent.

There was a Dent cell in Arkham, so unless they just never got around to removing his nameplate...

I hope they mix things-up a bit more in the wardrobe department going forward. Sure, in the comics Kate wears suits, and jackets, jeans, and sneakers - but she also wears dresses every so often. Variety is good.

If Renee ever shows-up, I hope Kate is in the classic red dress of her debut:



She was in a dress at least once in the original solo run as well (a plum sort of color), and also a couple of times in the 'Tec Tynion run (green one, and a black/dark purple one).

I just don't think TV Kate cares a lick about style. She just puts on whatever she feels like (even if looks like she only really has one outfit).

It could be a form of Stockholm Syndrome. It could also be that she already killed Mouse's father.

Yeah, I assume she's already killed Mouses' father and she was her first revenge kill.

[Chris Lang]

Sophie is caught in a bisexual love triangle. I would like to think breaking them up might save Tyler, but I'm still betting on him dying at the end of the season.

Tyler kind of reminds me of Eddie Thawne from Season One of The Flash. So I think you might be right.

I get it's setting up Crisis, but I have to imagine how random that Nash Wells scene at the end would be for anyone who only just watches this show.

Indeed. Anyone who doesn't watch the Flash won't know who that person is or what's going on. But those who have will know that this is a continuation of the character arc he's had since he was introduced.

[Elden]

Tyler kind of reminds me of Eddie Thawne from Season One of The Flash. So I think you might be right.

He's a poor attempt at Eddie; Nowhere near as well acted, well written or, if I may be shallow, as good looking.

Eddie was likeable even when positioned as a rival to Barry for Iris' affection. Meanwhile Tyler is all "How dare you have had a relationship with anyone other than me, especially a woman, but oh, I'm totally not homophobic; just as long as you never really loved her and only loved me."

The sooner Tyler dies a horrible and painful death the better.

[AnakinFlair]

He's a poor attempt at Eddie; Nowhere near as well acted, well written or, if I may be shallow, as good looking.

Eddie was likeable even when positioned as a rival to Barry for Iris' affection. Meanwhile Tyler is all "How dare you have had a relationship with anyone other than me, especially a woman, but oh, I'm totally not homophobic; just as long as you never really loved her and only loved me."

The sooner Tyler dies a horrible and painful death the better.

Agreed. I actually grew to like Eddie (the episode where he was framed by a shapeshifter and, after Flash broke him out, convinved Barry to take him back was the turning point for me), and when he died I was genuinely sad.

With Tyler, I got nothing. I mean, what did he think- that Sophie was a virgin and had never been in another relationship before him?