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Thread: Batwoman (2019)

  1. #2776
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I don't think they'll kill her- why bring her back at all, just to kill her off again?
    That's actually why I think she's destined to die - I started thinking about why they brought her back, and all the crap I've seen in the other shows, and my thoughts were:

    1. Because the actress didn't come back, they probably feel that they couldn't send the character off properly/respectfully.
    2. They have a new person taking on the mantle without having the last one heap praise on the replacement about how they're a much better hero than they can ever be.
    3. Adding points 1 and 2, I think they're bringing Kate back just so Ryan can snap her out of her brainwashing, have Kate verbally tell Ryan (and through her, us) how Ryan is a better Batwoman than her, and then have Kate sacrifice her life somehow in order to save the day through some contrived reason thus giving her the "heroic farewell" the writers think they need to give her since Ruby quit.

    I mean, tell me that doesn't all feel like a very CW thing to do. I think they only brought Kate back to have her tell Ryan/us how great Ryan is as the better Batwoman and then commit the noble sacrifice because that's how the CW do.

  2. #2777
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    And Ryan leaving Alice, after Alice had JUST saved her life- I think that showed that Ryan really DOESN'T have what it takes to be a hero. A hero would have put aside personal feelings and saved Alice. By walking out, she proved that she can't put aside personal feelings to get the job done. I think they are starting to build the case of why they are going to take the mantel away from Ryan and give it back to Kate eventually.
    It's a teachable moment - Ryan will come to regret her decision and "grow" as a character into that better Batwoman, according to CW logic.

  3. #2778
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorboares View Post
    Found it very strange that Batwoman just left and walked out while Alice needed help in tonights episode.
    I can't wait to see Kate properly but I love how she fought Batwoman and was much better than her.
    I wasn't a fan of Ryan leaving Alice to die. After not killing her, it seemed Ryan had shed the need for revenge, but this "I don't have to save you" is backtracking to me. And during the fight with Kate, I just kept thinking, "Shouldn't the Batsuit be resistant to knives? Why is she bothering to dodge her?"

  4. #2779
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Cluemaster next week, huh? Is a live-action Stephanie Brown that far behind?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's actually why I think she's destined to die - I started thinking about why they brought her back, and all the crap I've seen in the other shows, and my thoughts were:

    1. Because the actress didn't come back, they probably feel that they couldn't send the character off properly/respectfully.
    2. They have a new person taking on the mantle without having the last one heap praise on the replacement about how they're a much better hero than they can ever be.
    3. Adding points 1 and 2, I think they're bringing Kate back just so Ryan can snap her out of her brainwashing, have Kate verbally tell Ryan (and through her, us) how Ryan is a better Batwoman than her, and then have Kate sacrifice her life somehow in order to save the day through some contrived reason thus giving her the "heroic farewell" the writers think they need to give her since Ruby quit.

    I mean, tell me that doesn't all feel like a very CW thing to do. I think they only brought Kate back to have her tell Ryan/us how great Ryan is as the better Batwoman and then commit the noble sacrifice because that's how the CW do.
    Seems roundabout even by the CW standards. Especially with how they're promoting it, the fan backlash to killing her off would be even worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I wasn't a fan of Ryan leaving Alice to die. After not killing her, it seemed Ryan had shed the need for revenge, but this "I don't have to save you" is backtracking to me. And during the fight with Kate, I just kept thinking, "Shouldn't the Batsuit be resistant to knives? Why is she bothering to dodge her?"
    It just felt petty and vindictive, especially after Alice had just saved her.

    Like, she doesn't have to like or care about Alice, but common courtesy...

  5. #2780
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    Ryan foreshadowed her feelings on Alice by stating she never forgets (meaning her "mother's" death). And with a character like Alice, it's totally justified to leave a character like that to die. Just how much death and destruction does someone get a pass for?

  6. #2781
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    Ryan foreshadowed her feelings on Alice by stating she never forgets (meaning her "mother's" death). And with a character like Alice, it's totally justified to leave a character like that to die. Just how much death and destruction does someone get a pass for?
    It's not that Alice didn't deserve it to some extent, but ethically it didn't really feel like the right thing to do.

  7. #2782
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    Ryan foreshadowed her feelings on Alice by stating she never forgets (meaning her "mother's" death). And with a character like Alice, it's totally justified to leave a character like that to die. Just how much death and destruction does someone get a pass for?
    A hero would save everyone, good or bad.

    Of course, I say that and think immediately back to Batman Begins, where Bruce pulls this exact same stunt with Ra's. And Nolan gave us the one Batman on film who DIDN'T kill (aside from Batman 66).

  8. #2783
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't mind a hero "not saving" a villain, but for me it undermines the story where Ryan could have killed her and stopped. With Batman, Ras created the situation that killed him while he was trying to kill thousands of people. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but that didn't bother me so much.

  9. #2784
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Personally, I don't mind a hero "not saving" a villain, but for me it undermines the story where Ryan could have killed her and stopped. With Batman, Ras created the situation that killed him while he was trying to kill thousands of people. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but that didn't bother me so much.
    And coming after Alice saved Ryan, when she really didn't have any reason to.

  10. #2785
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Seems roundabout even by the CW standards. Especially with how they're promoting it, the fan backlash to killing her off would be even worse.
    Maybe, but I'm just getting that vibe that it might go down that way.

  11. #2786
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    Ryan foreshadowed her feelings on Alice by stating she never forgets (meaning her "mother's" death). And with a character like Alice, it's totally justified to leave a character like that to die. Just how much death and destruction does someone get a pass for?




    Honestly, Alice has had this coming since she tried to blow up the school full of innocent kids.
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  12. #2787
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post




    Honestly, Alice has had this coming since she tried to blow up the school full of innocent kids.
    Ironically Alice showed Ryan mercy beforehand.

  13. #2788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Ironically Alice showed Ryan mercy beforehand.
    Negative. Alice acted selfishly. It was a partnership out of convenience to get what she wanted (Ocean) and viewing Batwoman as a means to obtain the goal. As soon as that was completed, we can be assured Batwoman would’ve been bonked on the head or otherwise turned on.

  14. #2789
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleakr View Post
    Negative. Alice acted selfishly. It was a partnership out of convenience to get what she wanted (Ocean) and viewing Batwoman as a means to obtain the goal. As soon as that was completed, we can be assured Batwoman would’ve been bonked on the head or otherwise turned on.
    But she didn't though. She actually saved Batwoman when she really had no reason or incentive to do so.

  15. #2790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But she didn't though. She actually saved Batwoman when she really had no reason or incentive to do so.
    She did - she didn’t see Batwoman already saved/freed Ocean. In her mind, he still needed to be found and she still needed Batwoman’s help to locate/fight/save Ocean.

    There was no scene shown where Alice and Ocean touch base and she says “Ok, you get out of here to safety while I go check and make sure Batwoman is ok”.

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