Batwoman (2019)

[Celgress]

Even by the CW's low standards this show shouldn't have gotten a S3. The ratings for S2 were pathetic, I've not see a summation of S3.

Agreed, this show should have been canceled after Season 2, hell, I'd have canceled it after Ruby left it was utter crap, IMO, from then on. Sometimes I think the former regime only renewed it to prove critics "wrong" about it being a commercial and critical failure.

[Nate Grey]

What's there to crossover? Legends of Tomorrow I think just got the axe, Batwoman is gone, Naomi and Stargirl exist elsewhere in the multiverse and Superman & Lois like to pretend that they do (smart move). And we don't even know if Gotham Knights will be on that earth or not yet. So it's Flash and...?

Justice U? Though the new guy in charge may not want more Berlanti shows so it might not get picked up.

[Caivu]

Agreed, this show should have been canceled after Season 2, hell, I'd have canceled it after Ruby left it was utter crap, IMO, from then on. Sometimes I think the former regime only renewed it to prove critics "wrong" about it being a commercial and critical failure.

Spoken like someone who has no idea what the actual viewership and critical ratings were.

The short version is: they were both pretty decent. This is not a cancellation due to low ratings because, well... they weren't low by CW standards.

[Nate Grey]

Based on skyvolt's list, I think it was a case of cost, especially if shows that ranked at #10 and below got renewed.

[AnakinFlair]

What's there to crossover? Legends of Tomorrow I think just got the axe, Batwoman is gone, Naomi and Stargirl exist elsewhere in the multiverse and Superman & Lois like to pretend that they do (smart move). And we don't even know if Gotham Knights will be on that earth or not yet. So it's Flash and...?

Well, if I remember correctly there was supposed to be a crossover between Superman and Lois and Batwoman during S&L's 1st season, but that got scuttled due to the pandemic. And I remember reading that the showrunners have stated that by the end of this season, they will clarify exactly where S&L is in the new multiverse- and I think they are saying they will confirm they are still on Earth Prime. So Javica could always show up.

That said, I hope she doesn't. No offense to the actress, but just let the show die.

[Celgress]

Spoken like someone who has no idea what the actual viewership and critical ratings were.

The short version is: they were both pretty decent. This is not a cancellation due to low ratings because, well... they weren't low by CW standards.

Yup, they were stellar mega-hit level and it was the most critically renowned series since All in the Family truly an epic in every sense.

[Caivu]

Yup, they were stellar mega-hit level and it was the most critically renowned series since All in the Family truly an epic in every sense.

That's not what I said. I'm saying that the claim that the show was a "commercial and critical failure" is demonstrably untrue, and to make that claim is to be ignorant.

Based on skyvolt's list, I think it was a case of cost, especially if shows that ranked at #10 and below got renewed.

Yeah, that would explain Legends going, too. Both of them had higher views and ratings last season than Riverdale and Nancy Drew. The later two were renewed, but are also probably less expensive.

[Celgress]

That's not what I said. I'm saying that the claim that the show was a "commercial and critical failure" is demonstrably untrue, and to make that claim is to be ignorant.

First - I was using hyperbole. Still, I doubt this show was by any objective measure a success; for one (of many negatives) its ratings consistently declined season over season.

Second - Okay, prove it was a success. Show me the data and I'll concede the point.

Edit - Here, I'll start to prove you dead wrong. Here are the rantings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batwoman_(TV_series)

Edit Two -

RD (audience hates it)

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman

IMD (everyone hates it)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8712204/

And this is anecdotal but many reviewers either gave up reviewing the show (much like with Walking Dead post-season six) or only reviewed it to roast the episodes after season two started.

So, what did I state was "demonstrably untrue" and "ignorant", do tell? If you love the show, fine, I love lots of things that are unpopular but be honest about it.

[thefinalguy]

I'm not really shocked it did get canceled, just shocked it happened after season 3. And despite the cliffhanger, it had a fairly decent ending, so not too bad for a show riddled with a bunch of drama from the beginning.

I did like that Ryan was finally coming into her own as a character, hopefully, the comics give her something even if that won't be Batwoman. The show wasn't that good but I did enjoy the principal team, they were likable and I was curious to see how that got juggled in what I felt would be a more settled-in fourth season but it is what it is.

[Caivu]

Okay, prove it was a success. Show me the data and I'll concede the point.

CW average ratings, 2021-2022:
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/t...eason-ratings/

Batwoman: average demo 0.09, average viewership 458k. Canceled.
Riverdale: average demo 0.06, average viewership 251k. Renewed.
Nancy Drew: average demo 0.05, average viewership 356k. Renewed.

At the very least, those latter two shows should also have been canceled if this were based on the numbers, since they were worse in every category (worse than Legends, as well).

----

If Batwoman is unsuccessful, then by the same logic so is Superman and Lois.
Batwoman season 1 averages: 0.26 demo, 995k viewership
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/b...n-one-ratings/

S&L season 1 averages: 0.2 demo, 990k viewership
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/s...n-one-ratings/

S&L did worse in its first season with an undeniably more popular set of characters and arguably better marketing. But no one ever says S&L is a failure because that would be ridiculous.

----

The RT score for the show as a whole is 82%. Season 1 has 80%, season 2 89%. Season 3 doesn't yet have enough ratings to calculate, but the two it does have are both positive.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman

The Metacritic score is 59, aka almost the highest level of "mixed or average"; a score of 61 is the start of "generally favorable," for context.
https://www.metacritic.com/tv/batwoman

I'm not saying it was a success in the sense it was a smash hit. But neither was it some dead show that only 5 people watched and that was panned by critics.

[Celgress]

CW average ratings, 2021-2022:
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/t...eason-ratings/

Batwoman: average demo 0.09, average viewership 458k. Canceled.
Riverdale: average demo 0.06, average viewership 251k. Renewed.
Nancy Drew: average demo 0.05, average viewership 356k. Renewed.

At the very least, those latter two shows should also have been canceled if this were based on the numbers, since they were worse in every category (worse than Legends, as well).

----

If Batwoman is unsuccessful, then by the same logic so is Superman and Lois.
Batwoman season 1 averages: 0.26 demo, 995k viewership
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/b...n-one-ratings/

S&L season 1 averages: 0.2 demo, 990k viewership
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/s...n-one-ratings/

S&L did worse in its first season with an undeniably more popular set of characters and arguably better marketing. But no one ever says S&L is a failure because that would be ridiculous.

----

The RT score for the show as a whole is 82%. Season 1 has 80%, season 2 89%. Season 3 doesn't yet have enough ratings to calculate, but the two it does have are both positive.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman

The Metacritic score is 59, aka almost the highest level of "mixed or average"; a score of 61 is the start of "generally favorable," for context.
https://www.metacritic.com/tv/batwoman

I'm not saying it was a success in the sense it was a smash hit. But neither was it some dead show that only 5 people watched.

I agree with you. It was not a smash hit that was my main point if exaggerated. I also agree that few CW shows are smash hits right now. Still, a loss of half its audience from season one to season three is bad for any show.

[Caivu]

Here, I'll start to prove you dead wrong. Here are the rantings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batwoman_(TV_series)

Edit Two -

RD (audience hates it)

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/batwoman

IMD (everyone hates it)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8712204/

This doesn't prove anything because both RT and IMDB user ratings are notoriously susceptible to manipulation, such as not requiring that the one rating has actually seen the work in question. I watched this show get pounded by negative RT user scores before it had even premiered.

Even if that were not true, they'd be irrelevant because no network takes those sorts of user ratings into account. They're about as powerful as YouTube dislikes are.

So, what did I state was "demonstrably untrue" and "ignorant", do tell?

Well, by what metric are you saying it's a failure? It's certainly not a critical failure, and it's hard to argue that it's also a commercial one when it had overall decent metrics for a CW show throughout its lifetime. So what standard are you using?

[GOLGO 13]

Spoken like someone who has no idea what the actual viewership and critical ratings were.

The short version is: they were both pretty decent. This is not a cancellation due to low ratings because, well... they weren't low by CW standards.

But wasn’t the Batsuit made better because it was made to fit a woman? How did the show fail so spectacularly & so shamefully?

[Caivu]

But wasn’t the Batsuit made better because it was made to fit a woman? How did the show fail so spectacularly & so shamefully?

It didn't, which you would know if you looked a few posts up.

[Somecrazyaussie]

The writing for the Arrowverse has been on the wall for awhile now. Batwoman sort of got a decent enough ending. Legends? Not so much. It was only a matter of time, sadly.