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Thread: Batwoman (2019)

  1. #841
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Joking, I hope? Whitewashing Julia isn't exactly great.
    No.

    Look, on The Flash they made Iris and Wally West African-American. Dinah Drake is (I believe) Latina. They CREATED a new black character to join with Professor Stein to become Firestorm (in the comics, there was a black character that was part of Firestorm, but I think he was in the Stein role). They made Hawkgirl African American. And in the movies, they just made Black Canary- well, black.

    So they cast a white actress in a supporting role for a character that was black in the comics. I say if you are going to be okay with them changing up the races of other characters, you shouldn't be complaining if they do it in reverse.

    As for diversity, this cast is already pretty diverse, including two main supporting cast members being black, and one that is Asian, and the lead is a lesbian. I say they are doing pretty good on diversity.

  2. #842
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Gabi and Beth's headstones each had a Star of David, and Mouse mentioned Hanukkah when he lied to Jacob. Not a lot, but it is there.
    Ah, I see. Thanks .
    Hmm...

    I think it comes down to how major each of them was. Before the New 52, was Julia as popular a character as she is now (not that she's huge or anything now, but y'know)? My instinct says no, but I'm not sure.
    Well, she hadn't existed since Pre-Crisis so I think bringing her back to prominence to begin with was the main thing.
    Both versions of Helena B seem pretty much equally popular, so it's not as much an issue there.
    I think Post-Crisis Helena B inches out New 52/Rebirth, at least when people think of Huntress.
    Complicating things is that TV!Julia is an operative like modern comic Julia, so it's not like she has the same job as pre-Crisis Julia.
    I wonder if they might go with Mademoiselle Marie being her mother, since that was a thing for Pre-Crisis Julia.

  3. #843
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    No.

    Look, on The Flash they made Iris and Wally West African-American. Dinah Drake is (I believe) Latina. They CREATED a new black character to join with Professor Stein to become Firestorm (in the comics, there was a black character that was part of Firestorm, but I think he was in the Stein role). They made Hawkgirl African American. And in the movies, they just made Black Canary- well, black.

    So they cast a white actress in a supporting role for a character that was black in the comics. I say if you are going to be okay with them changing up the races of other characters, you shouldn't be complaining if they do it in reverse.

    As for diversity, this cast is already pretty diverse, including two main supporting cast members being black, and one that is Asian, and the lead is a lesbian. I say they are doing pretty good on diversity.
    In the comics Bette/Mary, Catherine, and Sophie all seem to be white. For the TV show they are Asian, and African-American - so more characters have been made diverse than vise versa. I understand why some Julia fans are upset though, it is a little jarring, but the TV show isn't the comics.

    Hey look:

    Batwoman_YoungAliceKate.jpg
    https://twitter.com/BatwomanBR/statu...29109332697090


    New review:
    https://au.ign.com/articles/2019/11/...be-jury-review
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 11-12-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #844
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    In the comics Bette/Mary, Catherine, and Sophie all seem to be white.
    It's not been clear what Sophie's ethnicity is, and her appearance has shifted in the three eras she's been in, but she's never been white.
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  5. #845
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    It's not been clear what Sophie's ethnicity is, and her appearance has shifted in the three eras she's been in, but she's never been white.
    Fair enough, she was so unimportant in the comics, I barely paid her any attention. Last time I saw her though I interpreted her as white.

    SophieMoore.jpg

  6. #846
    Spectacular Member djoki96's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Fair enough, she was so unimportant in the comics, I barely paid her any attention. Last time I saw her though I interpreted her as white.

    SophieMoore.jpg
    I think she's Asian in that panel.

    I think. Not sure.

  7. #847
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djoki96 View Post
    I think she's Asian in that panel.

    I think. Not sure.
    I thought so too. In the New 52 she was pretty clearly black, and ambiguous in Elegy. Honestly, I think it might just be coloring error in Rebirth.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  8. #848
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I thought so too. In the New 52 she was pretty clearly black, and ambiguous in Elegy. Honestly, I think it might just be coloring error in Rebirth.
    Batwoman_Sophie_Comics_1.jpg

    Looking through now, she's somewhat inconsistent as far as ethnicity goes. But personality-wise, she is consistently an oblivious jerk to Kate. Coincidentally, has Sophie in the show referred to Kate as Candy yet?
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 11-12-2019 at 09:43 PM.

  9. #849
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    But personality-wise, she is consistently an oblivious jerk to Kate.
    Uh... no. What are you talking about? She's in no way a jerk.

    Nice to see Mary/Bette's attitude to Sophie is consistent with the comics.
    I wouldn't put too much stock in that panel of Bette. It's Andreyko.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  10. #850
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Uh... no. What are you talking about? She's in no way a jerk.
    Yeah she's a jerk, bragging about her career. Just because she doesn't realise she's being a jerk doesn't make her not a jerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I wouldn't put too much stock in that panel of Bette. It's Andreyko.
    Oh, I just edited that image out, here it is again.

    Batwoman_Bette_Comics.jpg
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 11-12-2019 at 09:48 PM.

  11. #851
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Yeah she's a jerk, bragging about her career. Just because she doesn't realise she's being a jerk doesn't make her not a jerk.
    She's not bragging. Kate asked her about her medals, and she answered. That's it. At no point in that scene did she brag about anything. If anything, she seemed to be downplaying it.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  12. #852
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    She's not bragging. Kate asked her about her medals, and she answered. That's it. At no point in that scene did she brag about anything. If anything, she seemed to be downplaying it.
    Fine, maybe she's more of an annoyance in the comics than a literal jerk. But in the TV show, of which I've seen the first 4 eps so far, she is an unintentional jerk IMO.

  13. #853
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Fine, maybe she's more of an annoyance in the comics than a literal jerk. But in the TV show, of which I've seen the first 4 eps so far, she is an unintentional jerk IMO.
    I don't understand where you're getting either of those interpretations from, especially the first one. What supports those readings?
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  14. #854
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I don't understand where you're getting either of those interpretations from, especially the first one. What supports those readings?
    She is so far incapable of being honest about her feelings or with herself, let alone others. She's hiding from both Kate and her husband. Not saying she doesn't have a reason to do so, doesn't mean I have to like the character though.

    Also, she betrayed Kate when she revealed Kate was meeting with Alice, when Kate trusted her with that information = jerk. Good intentions doesn't cancel-out the jerk-factor.

    The comic version we only see from Kate's POV, where she exists as an uncomfortable reminder of rejection.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    No.

    Look, on The Flash they made Iris and Wally West African-American. Dinah Drake is (I believe) Latina. They CREATED a new black character to join with Professor Stein to become Firestorm (in the comics, there was a black character that was part of Firestorm, but I think he was in the Stein role). They made Hawkgirl African American. And in the movies, they just made Black Canary- well, black.

    So they cast a white actress in a supporting role for a character that was black in the comics. I say if you are going to be okay with them changing up the races of other characters, you shouldn't be complaining if they do it in reverse.

    As for diversity, this cast is already pretty diverse, including two main supporting cast members being black, and one that is Asian, and the lead is a lesbian. I say they are doing pretty good on diversity.
    Minor thing. Jefferson Jackson wasn't created for the Arrowverse. He exists in the comics.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Jefferson...on_(Earth-One)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    She is so far incapable of being honest about her feelings or with herself, let alone others. She's hiding from both Kate and her husband. Not saying she doesn't have a reason to do so, doesn't mean I have to like the character though.

    Also, she betrayed Kate when she revealed Kate was meeting with Alice, when Kate trusted her with that information = jerk. Good intentions doesn't cancel-out the jerk-factor.

    The comic version we only see from Kate's POV, where she exists as an uncomfortable reminder of rejection.
    Alice is a wanted criminal. Her being Kate's sister doesn't change that and given what Alice tried to do an episode ago, I'm on Sophie's side entirely.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 11-13-2019 at 12:54 AM.

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