Batwoman (2019)

[Sandy Hausler]

I'm starting to wonder- with Beth and Alice, we all know that one of them will die, and it will probably be Beth. But what if, when she dies, she's absorbed into Alice? Then Alice would have the internal conflict of two lives- the one that made her into Alice, and the one that never went through all of that. Which could then lead to Mouse being the ultimate villain of the season, and Alice beginning down the road to redemption.

I think either one of them is going to die or one of them is going to be scarred (probably in the face) so you can tell them apart. Otherwise we'll have continuous stories where Kate won't be able to trust Beth because not sure if she's really Alice. That would get boring.

[90'sCartoonMan]

This was a great episode for Alice (and the alternate Beth, Kate does get to save her from being trapped in a car). It's her birthday, and in the flashback, we see how Alice was actually born. That was chilling, including all the skin sewing stuff. I still don't buy Alice being such a good fighter she can take out two guards and get the drop on Sophie like that, but otherwise, I enjoyed the spotlight on her.

I don't know how I feel about the plot with the GCPD. I appreciate this show for showing Kate's unique struggle as an LGBT hero, opening up the gay bar, having Batwoman publicly come out, etc, but I don't like the sudden homophobia from the police force. Did they really not want to turn on the bat signal because they don't want help from a lesbian hero? None of them? And they didn't at least use the excuse that they don't want to rely on a vigilante when confronted by the media? Batwoman's supporters coming together at the end was nice, though.

I'm starting to wonder- with Beth and Alice, we all know that one of them will die, and it will probably be Beth. But what if, when she dies, she's absorbed into Alice? Then Alice would have the internal conflict of two lives- the one that made her into Alice, and the one that never went through all of that. Which could then lead to Mouse being the ultimate villain of the season, and Alice beginning down the road to redemption.

Ehh, the Arrow spin-off is already planning that with one of their characters...

[The Darknight Detective]

I don't know how I feel about the plot with the GCPD. I appreciate this show for showing Kate's unique struggle as an LGBT hero, opening up the gay bar, having Batwoman publicly come out, etc, but I don't like the sudden homophobia from the police force. Did they really not want to turn on the bat signal because they don't want help from a lesbian hero? None of them? And they didn't at least use the excuse that they don't want to rely on a vigilante when confronted by the media? Batwoman's supporters coming together at the end was nice, though.

I didn't buy that storyline myself.

[Caivu]

I don't know how I feel about the plot with the GCPD. I appreciate this show for showing Kate's unique struggle as an LGBT hero, opening up the gay bar, having Batwoman publicly come out, etc, but I don't like the sudden homophobia from the police force. Did they really not want to turn on the bat signal because they don't want help from a lesbian hero? None of them? And they didn't at least use the excuse that they don't want to rely on a vigilante when confronted by the media? Batwoman's supporters coming together at the end was nice, though.

I have my doubts that was their real reason. Remember how enthusiastic they were to arrest Jacob? I think they're trying to consolidate power without being too obvious.

[j9ac9k]

I have my doubts that was their real reason. Remember how enthusiastic they were to arrest Jacob? I think they're trying to consolidate power without being too obvious.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it's anything that organized. It just seems to be a constant of this show, where there's tension between the cops and Crow, or the cops and Batwoman- which makes sense since they're all doing their jobs better than the cops are.

[Jackalope89]

I forget, but has the show mentioned Jim Gordon, Harvey Bullock, and other known good cops? Or will they be transitioning to the GCPD from the Crows going forward?

[lowfyr]

I forget, but has the show mentioned Jim Gordon, Harvey Bullock, and other known good cops? Or will they be transitioning to the GCPD from the Crows going forward?

Not so far as I know. But perhaps there are still limitations on who they can use. Not so much as before but some characters may still be off-Limits.

[Jon Clark]

Not so far as I know. But perhaps there are still limitations on who they can use. Not so much as before but some characters may still be off-Limits.

I still don't quite understand the logic of these boycotts. They are referencing Bruce, so why not let them do the same to the others. They don't have to show them on-screen but how is simply mentioning that Jim Gordon left Gotham around the same time as Bruce or that his death was when Gotham changed (for example) an issue.

[lowfyr]

I still don't quite understand the logic of these boycotts. They are referencing Bruce, so why not let them do the same to the others. They don't have to show them on-screen but how is simply mentioning that Jim Gordon left Gotham around the same time as Bruce or that his death was when Gotham changed (for example) an issue.

I have given up trying to understand the logic behind the boycotts years ago. I think a lot of throwing dice is involved^^

[j9ac9k]

I still don't quite understand the logic of these boycotts. They are referencing Bruce, so why not let them do the same to the others. They don't have to show them on-screen but how is simply mentioning that Jim Gordon left Gotham around the same time as Bruce or that his death was when Gotham changed (for example) an issue.

I don't agree with boycotts either, but it might not be the case here. Sure, they could mention something like that, but then they're locked into it if they decide to ever use one of those characters. Maybe it's an issue of them not wanting to use a name until they have a story or direction for that character rather than establish something with an off-handed comment. Maybe...

[Frontier]

I guess if it's any consolation for Kate, there were probably Earths where she tried to save Beth from the car but fell in with them. At least she finally got to make up for it at the end.

For some reason Rachel Skarsten's Beth reminds me of Erika Harlacher.

So Kate's bar is called "The Hold Up?" Sounds less like a lesbian bar and more like a bar for criminals. Unless they're meant to say "hold up" to society's stigmatization of lesbians and women.

I'm not going to say the show can't address political issues, but I also found the GCPD's reasoning for not shining the signal over "politics" kind of dumb. I mean, the commissioner and mayor's sons were kidnapped, I don't think they're going to care about politics versus bringing in the best help they can get (which is Batwoman). There were way better excuses for not bringing her into this that they could have come up with, unless they really don't want the GCPD looking good. Although it's not like the GCPD really communicate with Batwoman anyways. The Bat-Signal basically just tells her something's going on and assumes she watches the news, I guess?

I didn't think they could make Cartwright more despicable and awful, but here we are. I guess I can only take solace in that these flashbacks are very likely going to get to the point where Alice and Mouse killed him. Which would be well deserved, especially since Netflix taught me that you do not @#$% with cats .

Is Sophie's issue with her sexuality really that debilitating? I mean, I get it, she's hiding a big part of herself, but that seems divorced from her actual job. I guess from a relationship standpoint she feels unfulfilled and closed off but I'm not sure it's as serious an issue as Alice makes it out to be. The only reason she still seems to be in the closet is because of her parents who we haven't seen her interact with yet.

So they were able to find a near identical replica wig of Alice's hair. Does that mean Alice's hair has been a wig this whole time? Granted, the actress is wearing wigs both ways...

Mouse sure took his best friend's psychotic break pretty well. Especially when he seemed kind of normal and innocent back then. Maybe he didn't realize how bad it was until he was too far gone to actually care.

I wonder if Sophie and Jacob are going to learn about AU Beth. Mary took it in stride more or less, but I'm not sure if Sophie and Jacob could listen long enough to someone explaining the old Multiverse to them before they try and shoot Beth for looking like Alice.

All of these shows, for the most part, have had season long Big Bads. Flash is changing it up this year, and Arrow split the season in 6 and 7, but all of the other shows still do this. Why is Alice the bridge too far? Honestly curious.

With Supergirl you never know who the real Big Bad is until the very last quarter of the show.

Kate has fought the Executioner, Magpie, the Rifle and Tommy Elliot. This show isn't just limiting her to Alice.

I don't know if that's alot when we're already 11 episodes in...although I wonder if the focus on Alice is because the writers want to prioritize a more personal, intimate, Big Bad or because they're still not sure which villains they have access to.

I'm starting to wonder- with Beth and Alice, we all know that one of them will die, and it will probably be Beth. But what if, when she dies, she's absorbed into Alice? Then Alice would have the internal conflict of two lives- the one that made her into Alice, and the one that never went through all of that. Which could then lead to Mouse being the ultimate villain of the season, and Alice beginning down the road to redemption.

That's the only way I see them keeping Rachel Skarsten around given how irredeemable they keep making Alice.

Disagree on both counts. Especially the first one; not all fights have to be suspenseful. Suspense wasn't the point of that fight, or at least not suspense related to Kate's safety. Wasn't stilted, either.

The fights on this show look no different from other Arrowverse fights, but those tend to get praised.

I'd maybe put it on par with the hand-to-hand stuff on Supergirl or Flash. Not really Arrow.

[Caivu]

I'm not going to say the show can't address political issues, but I also found the GCPD's reasoning for not shining the signal over "politics" kind of dumb. I mean, the commissioner and mayor's sons were kidnapped, I don't think they're going to care about politics versus bringing in the best help they can get (which is Batwoman). There were way better excuses for not bringing her into this that they could have come up with, unless they really don't want the GCPD looking good. Although it's not like the GCPD really communicate with Batwoman anyways. The Bat-Signal basically just tells her something's going on and assumes she watches the news, I guess?

This is why I don't think that's the actual reason. I'm pretty sure they're just trying to get more power, and supporting Batwoman undermines that.

[The Darknight Detective]

This is why I don't think that's the actual reason. I'm pretty sure they're just trying to get more power, and supporting Batwoman undermines that.

But the change happened right after she came out, though. Which begs the question: is there a comparably-sized city today that anyone can think of that would do something like this in regard to a hero's sexuality?

[Caivu]

But the change happened right after she came out, though.

Yes. Because it offers them a convenient smokescreen. They're still not baldly saying they're not asking for her help because she's gay, they're being mealy-mouthed about it. But that would be enough to hide what they're actually up to.

[j9ac9k]

This show is not trying for "realism." Its storytelling is more in line with fables or parables.. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing - it's an artistic choice. The show wants to address the heart of issues like prejudice and family, etc. without adhering to "what would really happen." It's highly dramatized. The restaurant scene most likely wouldn't happen in a big city like Gotham the way it was presented, and it seems silly to not turn on the signal when there's a murderer on the loose, but the core truth of those incidents are what's important. Without that kind of artistic license, it would take forever to get to the point or involve a lot of unnecessary details.