Batwoman (2019)

[Bat-Meal]

I mean, they're already Jewish, right? That should count for something.

In theory it should have, but apart from a vague mention of a bat-mitzvah, and Beth's gravestone - their Jewish heritage seemed basically ignored. Blink and you miss it sort of thing. In the comics that Kate is Jewish is far more visible and plays into her choice of colors for the Batsuit, right down to details in her apartment. Also, I heard many people were offended by how Kate and Jacob were basically locked in a gas-chamber in the Executioner episode. They did stick a tree of life tattoo on Ruby's Kate, but it's a reference that would mostly also go unnoticed.

Personally, I don't care what ethnicity they make Kate, as long as she is still Kate and the essence of the character remains. I mean, Mary isn't exactly the same as Bette, but for all intents and purposes, she basically is Bette.

[lowfyr]

You mean "Mystery of the Batwoman"? I guess calling the new character "Kathy Duquense" is out.



Can we at least have Mary try to be Batwoman for a bit until there's a new Batwoman? Set up Mary for her future costumed identity.



I mean, they're already Jewish, right? That should count for something.

Yes, thank you. That is the one.

I would be very surprised if Ryan is not in the costume in the first three episodes. KabutoRyders guess will be more or less how they will do it I think.

And the Kanes being jewish was there, but in my opinion it was always more about Kate being lesbian in the minds of the higher-ups.

[lowfyr]

They didn't know what happened to Bruce?!

Jesus Christ, it's the grave at the beginning of Arrow Season 4 all over again. Let's show this grave, but have absolutely no idea how we get there or who is in it.

Something like this always reminds me of The Mentalist and the secret about Red John. No idea who he is or even what he is. Starting with a Red Dragon clone and suddenly he is the big bad of a conspiracy who would make X-Files writers think "too much". And after revealing who he is, it looks like they chose him by throwing a dice.

[lowfyr]

That's the thing that actually upsets me the most. Melissa and Ruby had great chemistry together, and they managed to create a strong friendship between the two characters while interacting over only 2 crossovers. I wanted that crossover to happen- if not this year, then next year. And even if they had recast Kate, I would still like to have seen her interact with Kara. I have no interest in seeing her interact with Ryan Dorsey, or whatever they are calling her.

As for her interacting with Stargirl, I think that could be good, but I'd like Dreamer to interact with her more. Something else I'd love to see- I wish they would bring in Brandon Routh as the Kingdom Come Superman again and have him mentor the JSA. There is precedent for that- KC Superman was a member of the JSA shortly before the New52.

Kate and Kara being in a crossover regualry would have been great. As you said they had great chemistry together.

Brandon as Mentor of the JSA is an awesome idea.

[lowfyr]

Or trying to hurt RR by taking it out on the Batwoman fan-base perhaps.

The circumstances of the OC's creation alone make her unlikable for me because she comes at the expense of Kate, or rather her erasure. Also she can't exist without Kate having existed first, because of the fact that they are building off of the first season and using Kate's supporting characters, and Kate was already in COIEs.

And unlike the main Batfamily she isn't complementary and coexisting - she's a direct replacement. David and Luke situation.

If they had started with an OC Batwoman from day 1, there wouldn't be this level of bitterness (could be seen as an elseworlds to the comics), but since they chose to go with Kate they should have been willing to see it through and just recast. What happens if this actress leaves after season 2, another OC Batwoman?

And if they wanted more diversity, the Kane family didn't have to be white like in the comics, they could have changed that like they did with the West family in The Flash.

getting Kate out of the picture is one of the most stupid things they could have done. And how they have would have done it first if not for the backlash shows that there has to be some kind of revenge thing going on. Adding to that is the poisned "We respect Ruby and her legacy on the show" twitter stuff. Always maked me wonder, how they would have wanted to do it, if they did not "respect" her.

[Bat-Meal]

getting Kate out of the picture is one of the most stupid things they could have done. And how they have would have done it first if not for the backlash shows that there has to be some kind of revenge thing going on. Adding to that is the poisned "We respect Ruby and her legacy on the show" twitter stuff. Always maked me wonder, how they would have wanted to do it, if they did not "respect" her.

I'm too lazy to go digging to find the source, but some of the earlier articles, plus the now mostly deleted audition videos suggested she actually takes the batsuit off Kate's corpse. I couldn't say for certain that's what they had planned, but it sure seemed that way. Not sure how that was supposed to translate to "likable". Regardless, the implication was Kate was KIA, so if 'Ryan' didn't take it off Kate's body in the original story plan, guess she stole it from whomever did. Disrespectful to kill Kate like that regardless.

Anyway they backpedalled on killing Kate now, because it was a bad look to "bury your gays". So they a burying her without saying they are, they are just erasing her and pretending no one in her family cares because 'Ryan' is so much cooler and they all love her more, or something along those lines, would be my guess. They'll probably also throw in a line about how "proud" Kate would be of 'Ryan' no doubt, to try and force the audience to love her too.

Since they apparently have no plans as to how to resolve Bruce's disappearance, I suppose Kate is likely there with him, in a void of unresolved plot threads. What a place to be.

[lowfyr]

I'm too lazy to go digging to find the source, but some of the earlier articles, plus the now mostly deleted audition videos suggested she actually takes the batsuit off Kate's corpse. I couldn't say for certain that's what they had planned, but it sure seemed that way. Not sure how that was supposed to translate to "likable". Regardless, the implication was Kate was KIA, so if 'Ryan' didn't take it off Kate's body in the original story plan, guess she stole it from whomever did. Disrespectful to kill Kate like that regardless.

Anyway they backpedalled on killing Kate now, because it was a bad look to "bury your gays". So they a burying her without saying they are, they are just erasing her and pretending no one in her family cares because 'Ryan' is so much cooler and they all love her more, or something along those lines, would be my guess. They'll probably also throw in a line about how "proud" Kate would be of 'Ryan' no doubt, to try and force the audience to love her too.

Since they apparently have no plans as to how to resolve Bruce's disappearance, I suppose Kate is likely there with him, in a void of unresolved plot threads. What a place to be.

Agree 100%. Ryan description alone would be a big f*** you to Rose and the character. The rest just is more proof of that.
So it will be a letter at best again. But I think I have no faith in the showrunners to even get that right.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The best thing CW can do right now to save the show is fire the show runner, whose imploding and taking the show with him, switch Javicia Leslie to be the new Kate Kane (nobody recognises her as not looking like Ruby Rose) and continue the plot threads from season 1. They won't do this.

[Bat-Meal]

The best thing CW can do right now to save the show is fire the show runner, whose imploding and taking the show with him, switch Javicia Leslie to be the new Kate Kane (nobody recognises her as not looking like Ruby Rose) and continue the plot threads from season 1. They won't do this.

The best thing IMO for the fan-base would be to cancel the show, and release the rights so that one day a company that's actually passionate about the character and source material can do a proper adaption.

This is not the best thing for the cast and crew however, who rely on the show for continued employment, although it is up in the air as to how much longer the show will last after this. A lot of people keep saying the CW doesn't cancel anything, but they do actually, and the way things are going my guess is productions are only going to get more expensive. Hey, maybe the show will go on for years, but at the moment I doubt it.

[Frontier]

I feel kind of bad too. It's not like Ruby Rose was completely beloved, but she still has big shoes to fill.

The worst part is how much Ruby had improved by the end of the season, and now she's being replaced.

You mean "Mystery of the Batwoman"? I guess calling the new character "Kathy Duquense" is out.

Now that you mention it, this isn't the first black Batwoman. Maybe they should have gone more in that direction.

Can we at least have Mary try to be Batwoman for a bit until there's a new Batwoman? Set up Mary for her future costumed identity.

Maybe she can find inspiration from those knockoff Batwomen she treated.

Kate and Kara being in a crossover regualry would have been great. As you said they had great chemistry together.

The Batwoman symbol in the Tower now feels pointless.

The best thing CW can do right now to save the show is fire the show runner, whose imploding and taking the show with him, switch Javicia Leslie to be the new Kate Kane (nobody recognises her as not looking like Ruby Rose) and continue the plot threads from season 1. They won't do this.

Maybe make Javicia the new Post-Crisis Vixen and give her her own show...

[Nate Grey]

Couldn't they just make her Harper Row in all but name? Unless this is all a ploy and that's exactly who she will be.

[Frontier]

Couldn't they just make her Harper Row in all but name? Unless this is all a ploy and that's exactly who she will be.

Beyond the actress being bisexual (I'm not sure if the character will be) and a dead mom, I don't see much in common with Harper.

There's no engineering background, no Cullen, and Harper wasn't a former criminal.

[Nate Grey]

Beyond the actress being bisexual (I'm not sure if the character will be) and a dead mom, I don't see much in common with Harper.

There's no engineering background, no Cullen, and Harper wasn't a former criminal.

Unless this is all a ploy and that's exactly who she will be.

So what's the over/under on DC releasing a false character spec since they know people want info now now now? ie Ryan Wilder former drug runner is actually false and she'll really be Harper Row, no drug running background?

[Frontier]

So what's the over/under on DC releasing a false character spec since they know people want info now now now? ie Ryan Wilder former drug runner is actually false and she'll really be Harper Row, no drug running background?

Variety is using the name and background information from before. I guess they could just be going off of what little is available about the new Batwoman, but it seems official.

I would like nothing more then for the background to be completely false though.

[Bat-Meal]

Agree 100%. Ryan description alone would be a big f*** you to Rose and the character. The rest just is more proof of that.
So it will be a letter at best again. But I think I have no faith in the showrunners to even get that right.

From the outside looking in, I'm starting to wonder is the drama behind-the-scenes was more more of a drama than the show itself:

• the lead actress nearly becomes paralyzed filming the pilot
• further into production the production-assistant does get paralyzed
• the lead actress quits, said to be mutual decision, rumors of being "difficult to work with"
• later rumors that leaving "not entirely" her decision, aka she was fired
• fans speculate about recast, much excitement about fan-casting of Wallis Day
• Showrunner gushes in interview about she "respects" RR's work on the first season - so she's tossing the lead character out and replacing her with an OC
• former lead actress mostly silent, states about reason for leaving "those who know know"
• Casting, and auditions leaked - Fan-backlash to both replacing and killing Kate Kane
• Showrunner twitter response, "Like you, I love Kate Kane - she's the reason I wanted to do the show. We'll never erase her." Proceeds to erase Kate Kane.
• New actress playing OC Batwoman announced.

Sources:
https://deadline.com/2019/09/batwoma...is-1202747538/
https://deadline.com/2020/03/batwoma...on-1202884231/
https://twitter.com/carolinedries/st...063809?lang=en

Not bothering to include all the original casting and trailer backlash, I'm focusing on the production and fallout itself. Although it's worth noting that the showrunner's interviews leading up to the first season made it pretty clear she wanted RR for the role and only her. I wish I could still find those old interviews, but being old they're mostly buried and hard to find. So what did I miss in the list, because a lot has happened.