Batwoman (2019)

[Caivu]

I'm really happy they have finally recast Kate. But it is also strange that they bring in an entire new character to be Batwoman, we go through all these past episodes trying to accept and get used to the new Batwoman and now the original character is back.
Don't get me wrong, I am over the moon Kate is back and she is recast BUT why not just recast from the beginning like so many fans of the show wanted?
It really doesn't make sense to me.

Berlanti's reasoning for this was that a normal recast would be an "elephant in the room," and there was a recent Reddit post that gave a theory as to why. Basically, doing that kind of recast would mean that, in order to not seem strange, the new actress would have to basically do an impersonation of Ruby's Kate, rather than giving her own performance. Plus, this new actress wouldn't have the same familiarity with the rest of the cast, making it likely that the interactions between the characters would feel wrong, even if just subconsciously. Who knows if either of those are true, but they seem like reasonable concerns. The way they're doing it now accounts for both Kate's changed appearance and allows her new actress to portray her differently to account for Kate having undergone severe injury and captivity.

[Guy1]

Maybe Kate will become The Question... ;p

[Triniking1234]

My problem with the producers were that they were so adamant about Kate not being recast when it was obvious that the character has to be present in some capacity.

I can't think of this ever happening in the history of a comic book show.

At the same time, I agree that I don't think the show could support two Batwomen.

Closest is the Adam West Catwoman being replaced in the movie and Season 3.

[Guy1]

At the same time, I agree that I don't think the show could support two Batwomen.

Hey, if Kamen Rider can do it years ago on a comparatively shoestring budget, I don't see why Batwoman can't.

[Frontier]

Berlanti's reasoning for this was that a normal recast would be an "elephant in the room," and there was a recent Reddit post that gave a theory as to why. Basically, doing that kind of recast would mean that, in order to not seem strange, the new actress would have to basically do an impersonation of Ruby's Kate, rather than giving her own performance. Plus, this new actress wouldn't have the same familiarity with the rest of the cast, making it likely that the interactions between the characters would feel wrong, even if just subconsciously. Who knows if either of those are true, but they seem like reasonable concerns. The way they're doing it now accounts for both Kate's changed appearance and allows her new actress to portray her differently to account for Kate having undergone severe injury and captivity.

I feel like you still get some of these issues in one form or another with replacing the main character wholesale, but I guess in the event of a replacement you're more upfront to the audience about needing to accept something new.

Hey, if Kamen Rider can do it years ago on a comparatively shoestring budget, I don't see why Batwoman can't.

I'd assume Batwoman would follow more of the Heisei/Neo Heisei model.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I feel kind of dumb for being so surprised that Ryan's plant ties so neatly into the story. I definitely liked it.

I'm not sure how to feel about Alice's break. It might've worked better if we were still following Kate.

As for Kate returning, she's probably too injured to be Batwoman, so we will still have one Bat, at least for a while.

I don't know what they have in mind the rest of the season, but I was thinking that I kinda wished they had kept this storyline and the cliffhanger for the end of the season. It would've given Ryan more time to grow into her role and do her own thing before all this Kate stuff.

I probably would've preferred that too, but...we'll have to see how it plays out.

[tabo61]

This show's version of Black Mask is cool.

[AnakinFlair]

So now Kate is essentially going through what Beth went through all those years ago, though instead of Stockholm Syndrome, we get good old-fashioned brainwashing. Because this wouldn't be a Berlanti CW show without someone getting brainwashed.

Still, I am intrigued to see where they take this. And Black Mask looks great.

[Frontier]

It's kind of weird to see them taking Kate's death and funeral so seriously and cementing Ryan as Batwoman when we know now that Kate is alive and is being recasted. Just hard to take it at face-value. At least she got a proper Jewish funeral.

"One month later" - how out of time is this show with the rest of the Arrowverse? I know Black Lightning jumped ahead a whole year but I'm kind of wondering what the timeframe is vs. Supergirl and Flash. Will we ever see Kara react to what happened to Kate?

Hey look, it's Ryan's drug-dealing girlfriend who got her sent to prison! And for whom apparently making drugs was a bridge too far from selling them. And then she's the getaway driver for the False Face Society. Are they also not going to address how she was with another woman and shoved Ryan as Batwoman off a window the last time they saw her? Then again, it's been a month, so I guess things can change.

Well, the GCPD seem to be reaping the benefits of Batwoman but aren't really proving that much better an alternative to the Crows. And then the current commissioner gets unceremoniously offed.

Who puts a cosmetic CEO on the air to talk about the murder of a police commissioner? Is it just because he's that rich? Although with the way Sionis is like in public would throw a lot of people off the trail of suspecting he's Black Mask.

Not even Sophie's little sister thinks the Crows are worth anything, and that Batwoman is just a cog in the machine of the legal system, although I'm not sure if they can do enough for the community to improve Gotham that Bruce Wayne probably didn't throw money at or think of himself (because I can't believe Bruce didn't think of that kind of stuff. Kate was doing similar stuff with the real estate job she was ostensibly supposed to have).

I knew Alice was going to have a mental breakdown over Kate's death and Safiyah's betrayal, but I wasn't expecting her to hallucinate little Kate and then decide to completely erase her sister's existence from her psyche (which will probably be upended when she sees Kate again). Also kind of weird seeing young Kate looking more prim and proper and with longer hair than adult Kate.

Team Bat is shifting things around to where Mary is playing hardball with Ryan while Luke is supporting her.

Jordan shipping Sophie and Ryan makes me think that's now probably going to happen at this point.

Batwoman stuck in a deathtrap. Now she really is part of the Batfamily .

Black Mask hates the Crows and the Bats because his daughter got locked up and killed by Kate? Does he know Kate was the original Batwoman and that's why he came after her? Or is it because of her connection to Jacob? Who is his daughter?

Well, I don't think Angelique deserved to go down for a murder she didn't commit because she wants to protect Ryan, but I can't say she didn't have jail time coming one way or another (and Ryan served the time she should have). I mean, I agree with Jordan about how flawed the system is but I'm not sure if there could be any structure to take into account the specific set of circumstances that led to Angelique taking the fall for the killing. They can't control what Angelique says or does if she's going to commit to it. Unless Jordan is just advocating for completely erasing the system and going full-on vigilante, but that's difficult from an accountability status.

So...is Enigma supposed to be related to Riddler? Green clothes, gold cane...wait, is she actually Riddler ?

[choptop]

It's kind of weird to see them taking Kate's death and funeral so seriously and cementing Ryan as Batwoman when we know now that Kate is alive and is being recasted. Just hard to take it at face-value. At least she got a proper Jewish funeral.

"One month later" - how out of time is this show with the rest of the Arrowverse? I know Black Lightning jumped ahead a whole year but I'm kind of wondering what the timeframe is vs. Supergirl and Flash. Will we ever see Kara react to what happened to Kate?

Hey look, it's Ryan's drug-dealing girlfriend who got her sent to prison! And for whom apparently making drugs was a bridge too far from selling them. And then she's the getaway driver for the False Face Society. Are they also not going to address how she was with another woman and shoved Ryan as Batwoman off a window the last time they saw her? Then again, it's been a month, so I guess things can change.

Well, the GCPD seem to be reaping the benefits of Batwoman but aren't really proving that much better an alternative to the Crows. And then the current commissioner gets unceremoniously offed.

Who puts a cosmetic CEO on the air to talk about the murder of a police commissioner? Is it just because he's that rich? Although with the way Sionis is like in public would throw a lot of people off the trail of suspecting he's Black Mask.

Not even Sophie's little sister thinks the Crows are worth anything, and that Batwoman is just a cog in the machine of the legal system, although I'm not sure if they can do enough for the community to improve Gotham that Bruce Wayne probably didn't throw money at or think of himself (because I can't believe Bruce didn't think of that kind of stuff. Kate was doing similar stuff with the real estate job she was ostensibly supposed to have).

I knew Alice was going to have a mental breakdown over Kate's death and Safiyah's betrayal, but I wasn't expecting her to hallucinate little Kate and then decide to completely erase her sister's existence from her psyche (which will probably be upended when she sees Kate again). Also kind of weird seeing young Kate looking more prim and proper and with longer hair than adult Kate.

Team Bat is shifting things around to where Mary is playing hardball with Ryan while Luke is supporting her.

Jordan shipping Sophie and Ryan makes me think that's now probably going to happen at this point.

Batwoman stuck in a deathtrap. Now she really is part of the Batfamily .

Black Mask hates the Crows and the Bats because his daughter got locked up and killed by Kate? Does he know Kate was the original Batwoman and that's why he came after her? Or is it because of her connection to Jacob? Who is his daughter?

Well, I don't think Angelique deserved to go down for a murder she didn't commit because she wants to protect Ryan, but I can't say she didn't have jail time coming one way or another (and Ryan served the time she should have). I mean, I agree with Jordan about how flawed the system is but I'm not sure if there could be any structure to take into account the specific set of circumstances that led to Angelique taking the fall for the killing. They can't control what Angelique says or does if she's going to commit to it. Unless Jordan is just advocating for completely erasing the system and going full-on vigilante, but that's difficult from an accountability status.

So...is Enigma supposed to be related to Riddler? Green clothes, gold cane...wait, is she actually Riddler ?

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Enigma_(New_Earth)

[protege]

It's kind of weird to see them taking Kate's death and funeral so seriously and cementing Ryan as Batwoman when we know now that Kate is alive and is being recasted. Just hard to take it at face-value. At least she got a proper Jewish funeral.

"One month later" - how out of time is this show with the rest of the Arrowverse? I know Black Lightning jumped ahead a whole year but I'm kind of wondering what the timeframe is vs. Supergirl and Flash. Will we ever see Kara react to what happened to Kate?

Hey look, it's Ryan's drug-dealing girlfriend who got her sent to prison! And for whom apparently making drugs was a bridge too far from selling them. And then she's the getaway driver for the False Face Society. Are they also not going to address how she was with another woman and shoved Ryan as Batwoman off a window the last time they saw her? Then again, it's been a month, so I guess things can change.

Well, the GCPD seem to be reaping the benefits of Batwoman but aren't really proving that much better an alternative to the Crows. And then the current commissioner gets unceremoniously offed.

Who puts a cosmetic CEO on the air to talk about the murder of a police commissioner? Is it just because he's that rich? Although with the way Sionis is like in public would throw a lot of people off the trail of suspecting he's Black Mask.

Not even Sophie's little sister thinks the Crows are worth anything, and that Batwoman is just a cog in the machine of the legal system, although I'm not sure if they can do enough for the community to improve Gotham that Bruce Wayne probably didn't throw money at or think of himself (because I can't believe Bruce didn't think of that kind of stuff. Kate was doing similar stuff with the real estate job she was ostensibly supposed to have).

I knew Alice was going to have a mental breakdown over Kate's death and Safiyah's betrayal, but I wasn't expecting her to hallucinate little Kate and then decide to completely erase her sister's existence from her psyche (which will probably be upended when she sees Kate again). Also kind of weird seeing young Kate looking more prim and proper and with longer hair than adult Kate.

Team Bat is shifting things around to where Mary is playing hardball with Ryan while Luke is supporting her.

Jordan shipping Sophie and Ryan makes me think that's now probably going to happen at this point.

Batwoman stuck in a deathtrap. Now she really is part of the Batfamily .

Black Mask hates the Crows and the Bats because his daughter got locked up and killed by Kate? Does he know Kate was the original Batwoman and that's why he came after her? Or is it because of her connection to Jacob? Who is his daughter?

Well, I don't think Angelique deserved to go down for a murder she didn't commit because she wants to protect Ryan, but I can't say she didn't have jail time coming one way or another (and Ryan served the time she should have). I mean, I agree with Jordan about how flawed the system is but I'm not sure if there could be any structure to take into account the specific set of circumstances that led to Angelique taking the fall for the killing. They can't control what Angelique says or does if she's going to commit to it. Unless Jordan is just advocating for completely erasing the system and going full-on vigilante, but that's difficult from an accountability status.

So...is Enigma supposed to be related to Riddler? Green clothes, gold cane...wait, is she actually Riddler ?

I’ve felt for awhile that Julia was an extraneous character that served no real purpose on this show; first they paired her with Sophie, but who cared, then they tried Sophie with Kate, now they’re trying Sophie with Ryan. Maybe she just has a thing for batwoman. Not sure where they’re going with Kate, but brainwashing and reconstructive surgery, how will people find out who she really is?

[Anarchist]

Yeah, what was the deal with Julia's scene at the end? Is she having a memory loss?

[j9ac9k]

Yeah, what was the deal with Julia's scene at the end? Is she having a memory loss?

Maybe Julia was getting too close before, and if Enigma's thing is brainwashing...

I guess I'll keep watching the show, but I feel the initial excitement of a possibly new direction with Ryan has worn off and we see now that she doesn't really bring a lot of new energy to the show. (at least not for me) It seems her initial motivations and passions - wanting to kill Alice, anger at the system and speaking for the down-trodden have been dimmed down to "let's do good for the community, guys!" And it's beginning to bother me just how amateur the Bat-team seems where Luke is now less competent than he was last season and the writing has to bend over backwards to make sure Mary and Ryan seem capable of solving crimes when they had no training or experience at it.

[Frontier]

Maybe Julia was getting too close before, and if Enigma's thing is brainwashing...

I guess I'll keep watching the show, but I feel the initial excitement of a possibly new direction with Ryan has worn off and we see now that she doesn't really bring a lot of new energy to the show. (at least not for me) It seems her initial motivations and passions - wanting to kill Alice, anger at the system and speaking for the down-trodden have been dimmed down to "let's do good for the community, guys!" And it's beginning to bother me just how amateur the Bat-team seems where Luke is now less competent than he was last season and the writing has to bend over backwards to make sure Mary and Ryan seem capable of solving crimes when they had no training or experience at it.

Well, the show is still very critical of the legal system and its treatment's of POC, so I feel like that's still consistent even if it's answer to that problem is just something general rather than definitive. I remember the show talking about how her experience with the criminal element would help her in solving cases but that hasn't really come up that much.

I don't think anyone in this show is a master detective. I think it's mostly Batcomputer work (which is usually Luke) and, in this episode, Mary using social media. Which, to be honest, isn't that much different from how it was when Kate was Batwoman.

[sorboares]

Just finished watching the latest episode and it was interesting. I enjoyed it, but some stuff bothered me. Like who did Kate Kill? Black Masks daughter? She never killed anyone other than Dr Cartwright. So what are we missing? Also Angelique confessing to a murder she didn't commit was weird.
So now we finally have Kate Kane back but she is going to be brainwashed and work for the bad guys? Hmmmm seems off to me.
Just bring Kate back, let her be Batwoman again and Ryan can become her own hero!
Also is it just me or was Batwomans wig in this episode a huge improvement? It seemed more tidy (like not so out of control), maybe bit shorter? Usually it seems very long and boofy and like out of control but this episode I feel like it looked heaps better and that it definitely was updated.