Batwoman (2019)

[Besouro]

Okay, the reason why the new actress playing Kate couldn't have taken over at the beginning of this season was...

They probably discovered her late after the Ryan story had been established, agreed to and cast......probably already filmed some eps before casting this new Kate actress.

[AnakinFlair]

They probably discovered her late after the Ryan story had been established, agreed to and cast......probably already filmed some eps before casting this new Kate actress.

I don't think so. Ruby Rose quit, then shortly thereafter the showrunners put out that while they wouldn't be killing off Kate Kane, she would be replaced with a brand new character that had- at that time- no comic book counterpart. It was not too long ago that a Ryan Wilder was introduced in the Batgirl comics, but I don't know if that character had been a part of a long term plan, or was a reaction to the almost universal hatred that replacing Kate Kane with an original character garnered. But they had Ryan planned for a bit before they started filming season 2.

Another thing that may never really be known- was recasting Kate and bringing her back like they did truly a part of the plan of this season, or was it again a reaction to many fans demanding Kate Kane return?


Well, that's the past. Let's look at the future.

I did like the handoff we got, with Kane giving the Batwoman mantle to Ryan. I don't agree with it, and I find it a bit odd that she's willing to turn her city over to one person with minimal training who never managed to beat her in a straight up fight (Ryan), and one person with no training who found a fancy suit he couldn't work properly (Luke). At least Ryan had shown some success as Batwoman, so I can go with that.

But they may have made a mistake on how they sent her off. While it makes sense for Kate to go searching for Bruce now that she knows her city will be protected- isn't THAT the story people will want to see? More than a Ryan beating up the villain of the week who this week just happened to find Penguin's umbrella? That and we know they have someone to place Bruce already, so now the game is 'When will Kate and Bruce come back?'

I still want to see Kate back on her own damn show, and have her work with Ryan as a team. I think it might be fun to have a retired Bruce Wayne come back to finance the whole thing, and maybe be the man in the chair a'la Batman Beyond. Plus, someone has to train Luke.

And I also wonder if we'll get Wallis Day in a guest spot on Supergirl, or if her visit will just me mentioned in passing.

[chamber-music]

They probably discovered her late after the Ryan story had been established, agreed to and cast......probably already filmed some eps before casting this new Kate actress.

Wallis Day auditioned for Batwoman a few weeks after Ruby Rose left.

Wallis Day: Yeah, so I actually went out for it last year, when they announced the departure of Ruby [Rose]. But a few weeks into the process, they said that they were heading in a different direction. But [showrunner] Caroline [Dries] wrote me an email letter and just said, "Listen, we're going in a different direction, but if we do end up bringing Kate back, I'll give you a call." And I was just like, [sighs] "Yeah, right, everyone always says this to the actors!"

But to be honest, I was really upset about it, because it just felt like such a right move. You never really get excited, because you kind of get used to rejection as an actor, but it just gnawed at me. In January, Caroline called, and I was like, "Yes, I do still want to play Kate! Let's do it!" And here we are.

[ZeroBG82]

Wallis Day auditioned for Batwoman a few weeks after Ruby Rose left.

Where she should have instantly been cast, and the show carried on with Kate as if nothing had happened.

But hey, hindsight and all that. I'm down to just Superman and Lois as the only remotely watchable Arrowverse show left. And given the way things have gone, I'm fully expecting the second season of that to fall apart at the seams as well.

How the mighty have fallen.

[sorboares]

I just finished the season 2 finale. It was good, nothing too special. I'm frustrated Kate finally returns just to leave again. Walllis is great as Kate and I would have loved to see more of her as Kate and as Batwoman.
I like Ryan but to me she still is not Batwoman, Kate is and should be. Ryan should become her own hero.
Just disappointing that Kate returned for like 2 minutes and than says BYE.

[j9ac9k]

Well, I was not expecting them to wrap all this up in one episode. For me it all felt rushed, but other than that the way everything turned out was fine. I can buy Kate's reason for leaving, but it's a shame that was the last we'll see of Jacob. At least he got to say what he did about Alice/Beth.
Black Mask's "Purge" gambit was appropriately "super villain-y" but was Ryan's "I can't be your hero, help yourself" letter really that inspiring? Again, rushing through it all just didn't allow time for those moments to land emotionally.

It's funny how Ryan's plan to "infiltrate" the gang was to put on the masks, when Alice looks just like Alice in her most identifiable outfit, but with a black mask. And of course it was pointless anyway, since they just walked in.

How did they get the Batsuit back together at the end so quickly? Didn't Kate take it completely apart? I thought they were going to use it as a reason for a new suit to begin next season, but no - there it is, back at the batcave like new.

[Captain Craig]

Okay, the reason why the new actress playing Kate couldn't have taken over at the beginning of this season was...

I was going to say maybe Wallis Day wasn't fully released from her Krypton contract. It did get shopped around after SyFy passed on S3. That show deserved a proper ending but I digress.

Wallis Day auditioned for Batwoman a few weeks after Ruby Rose left.

Then I saw this comment so it is a shame they thought going hard left and having 11/12 episodes of Meh, to bad was worth doing to only then bring Wallis in as Kate.
Makes me continue to question the showrunners.

I think it might be fun to have a retired Bruce Wayne come back to finance the whole thing, and maybe be the man in the chair a'la Batman Beyond. Plus, someone has to train Luke.
And I also wonder if we'll get Wallis Day in a guest spot on Supergirl, or if her visit will just me mentioned in passing.

I specifically stated up thread I'd want the Supergirl appearance also. Your idea of a retired Bruce ala Beyond is a solid idea I co-sign to.

I read where allegedly we are done with Kate. She had her send off. However, remarks by the showrunners prove they change their minds. Wallis Day is too good as Kate 2.0, she is a much better actress than Ruby Rose. So, so much better that it would be a shame to not have her as Kate a few times a season or in a Crisis crossover.

[AnakinFlair]

Just had an amusing thought:

Rachel Skarsten has now appeared in two Batman spin-off shows that have veered wildly away from the source material.

[j9ac9k]

Just had an amusing thought:

Rachel Skarsten has now appeared in two Batman spin-off shows that have veered wildly away from the source material.

Hey - no reason Dina Meyer can't be some version of Oracle in this post-Crisis world...

[Stars & Stripes]

I just finished the season 2 finale. It was good, nothing too special. I'm frustrated Kate finally returns just to leave again. Walllis is great as Kate and I would have loved to see more of her as Kate and as Batwoman.
I like Ryan but to me she still is not Batwoman, Kate is and should be. Ryan should become her own hero.
Just disappointing that Kate returned for like 2 minutes and than says BYE.

If anything, Kate should’ve stuck around as a non-costumed ally, helping the Team on occasion.

[Anarchist]

They probably wanted an in-universe reason on why she looks different.

[90'sCartoonMan]

That was a pretty solid finale. Ryan did ultimately need help in beating Kate but then she became the one and only Batwoman at the end. I think the best part was Gotham showing their support for Batwoman rather than giving into Black Mask.

I echo Ryan's sentiments when she says she doesn't want to see Alice ever again.

Batwing looked cool, but I'm afraid he's going to end up going the way of Ray Palmer/Atom. He'll get the suit up and in working order after a few episodes just to later have a bunch of BS excuses why he's not out patrolling regularly.

So, what do we make about Ryan's yet-to-be-revealed mother apparently being alive?

It felt like Alice was just messing with her, but a plot hook is a plot hook. So we'll see.

My take on what S3 might look like based on what we know and have been told.
*Ryan will be Batwoman
*Luke will be Batwing, in some capacity
*Mary will be legit with her clinic
*The three will do outreach at a Community Center built with presumably Wayne tech.
*When not Batwing, Luke & Mary are team Batwoman in the cave
*Team Batwoman will be hunting down the Batman trophies who will be used by "bad guys of the week" type stories.
*Jacob Kane is gone as a regular due to press release
*Alice is very likely to still have a role in S3, we saw the lax security and what $40 will get you
*Kate is going to track down Bruce and make a stop in National City. Sounds like a Supergirl guest appearance when S6 returns. Wallis Day in a semi-recurring role would please me.
*Sophie is a wild card. Her true love has closed the door but I could see her as being active on Team Batwoman helping out in the cave.
*Tavaroff/Menace will likely be back for a few episodes I think
*Black Mask, again Arkham security, could very well be back

Makes sense. I don't want them to spend too much time hunting down old villain items fallen into the wrong hands. I remember in the developing of Batman Beyond, they said they didn't just want to do new versions of old Batman villains. Ryan needs her own new rogues to fight.

I did like the handoff we got, with Kane giving the Batwoman mantle to Ryan. I don't agree with it, and I find it a bit odd that she's willing to turn her city over to one person with minimal training who never managed to beat her in a straight up fight (Ryan), and one person with no training who found a fancy suit he couldn't work properly (Luke). At least Ryan had shown some success as Batwoman, so I can go with that.

But they may have made a mistake on how they sent her off. While it makes sense for Kate to go searching for Bruce now that she knows her city will be protected- isn't THAT the story people will want to see? More than a Ryan beating up the villain of the week who this week just happened to find Penguin's umbrella? That and we know they have someone to place Bruce already, so now the game is 'When will Kate and Bruce come back?'

Depending on how eventful the search for Bruce is, Kate might just be traveling and following leads for months and months. Nothing we need to see regularly. If Kate's gone, that's fine, hopefully the stories with Ryan will be compelling. But I do hope to someday have some closure on the story of Kate and Bruce.

[Frontier]

This has got to be the first Arrowverse season finale where the lead never wears their costume and doesn't even really confront the Big Bad, but I guess Ryan's main conflict was with Circe in her warped Batwoman costume.

It's kind of interesting that Luke imagined as a kid what a black Batman would look like when that ends up becoming his brother in the comics. But his dad making a suit for his childhood dream is pretty sweet.

I have to admit, Roman has planned out resolving his double identity issues perfectly. It would've gone so well if not for Alice and Joker acid enforcing comic canon by burning his mask into his face and keeping it on there permanently, which also drives him crazy. Roman tried to keep professional distance between his two persona's but in the end he's stuck as Black Mask permanently.

Mary having a glitter taser is so on-brand. I also liked how, despite hating Taveroff's guts, she still treated him.

I really was expecting more Batwing than we got in this episode. Like, he really didn't get to do that much other than save Mary and punch Taveroff, which I guess is all he needed to do. I thought they would show off what the suit can do more but it was barely on-screen. Also feels like it should have actual wings.

Alice really had to pull the biological mom card? Can she not help herself? She was basically asking to get punched.

In a duel between the Batmobile and the Batcycle, the Batmobile wins. Poor Kate gets to marvel that they had the Batmobile the whole time, she just never got to use it.

Bringing things mentally full circle to where mental Kate actually opens the door to save Beth this time around, ultimately bringing Kate back.

So Kate...Alice is probably the closest she is to becoming Beth again, helps save you and bring you back, and then you...basically leave Gotham to find Bruce to make up for how you failed Beth in the past. Isn't that basically abandoning her again for Bruce? Like, it feels like now should be the time when she should really push hard on trying to reach through to her in Arkham instead of just leaving again. And it looks like Kate is going to be stuck in off-screen land trying to find Bruce which, as far as I'm aware, is a plotline the writers still have no idea how to resolve.

So we're just going to leave Jacob in prison since he's not coming back next season? I mean, he resolved his character arc, but harsh.

It's surreal to see the actual comic Batwoman handing the reins to an OC she just met and leaving her own show. I feel like Kate would probably be more of an asset to the Bat Team than just going off on her own to find Bruce. Like, couldn't she train Ryan or something? And Ryan got a better season finale ending than Kate got.

I feel like if Kate had asked, Sophie would have totally ran off with her to find Bruce, but I guess Kate didn't want to burden her like that and will just act like they're two starcrossed lovers who can never be together. Maybe this will lead Kate to Renee Montoya.

Ryan taking a victory lap against Alice in Arkham felt unneeded and like she really doesn't know how this stuff works. Heck, the fact that she bribed her way into seeing her already shows how the system doesn't work, so what does she think she's talking about? And then Alice gets one last "win" on her.

I guess since they can't use a lot of the classic villains they'll just use stand-ins with their gear.

Ryan's biological mother still being alive reminds me of Riri Williams finding out her biological father was still alive in her Ironheart comic. Although the fact that immediately after that revelation we see special attention paid to Poison Ivy's plants among the villain weapons at the end makes me wonder if Ryan's mother is Ivy? I wouldn't put it past this show to do the typical redhead -> black racebending and they've shown Ryan's affinity for plants before. Complete coincidence or foreshadowing? I do feel like we'll see Ivy next season one way or another.

[AnakinFlair]

Depending on how eventful the search for Bruce is, Kate might just be traveling and following leads for months and months. Nothing we need to see regularly. If Kate's gone, that's fine, hopefully the stories with Ryan will be compelling. But I do hope to someday have some closure on the story of Kate and Bruce.

Honestly, that could be it's own spin-off. Kate wandering the world, following clues to find Bruce while fighting crime along the way. Kind of a cross between The Incredible Hulk and Kung-Fu: The Legend Continues.

[ZeroBG82]

Honestly, that could be it's own spin-off. Kate wandering the world, following clues to find Bruce while fighting crime along the way. Kind of a cross between The Incredible Hulk and Kung-Fu: The Legend Continues.

It's likely that they will never bring Kate back. She's been discarded and is no longer relevant. If they cared about Kate, they would have recast from the beginning. All the creatives care about is the Bat connection. Who is in the suit doesn't matter as long as they can call her Batwoman and steal the rogues and iconography of the Bat characters to fuel their melodrama.

Stop thinking these creatives give two thoughts to Kate Kane.