Batwoman (2019)

[Bat-Meal]

I know that the show was raged against by several YouTubers and... Um, interesting sites, so probably some of their fans banded together.

The trolls failed to sink Captain Marvel earlier this year, so they are targeting Batwoman for now, until something else comes along to attack (the next Star Wars? Stargirl? Ms. Marvel? Mighty Thor? Who knows).

Many don't read the comics and know of Batman from other media, so they can't tell the difference between Batwoman and Batgirl (or Catwoman apparently), and are too lazy to look it up. And since Batwoman, unlike Batgirl, is very new to media outside of the comics, most non-comic fans will assume she is Batgirl and have jumped to the conclusion that she was re-written as a lesbian by the CW.

Mind you, if it was a Batgirl show, it would still be getting review bombed for being a female lead and the absence of Batman, but likely a bit less 'cos Babs is straight.

That, and the actress seems to have a swarm of dedicated haters (and judging by the comments they leave on articles about her etc, most are also based on misogyny and homophobia, whilst some others attack her for being a "fake lesbian" as they put it).

Actually, if you remember back to the casting controversy, many of the twitter haters attacked her for stuff like "not being lesbian enough", "a lesbian that appeals to straight people", or being "too pretty". A different species of troll, but also trolls who just have it out for the actress.

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entert...-rose-batwoman

[The Darknight Detective]

The trolls failed to sink Captain Marvel earlier this year, so they are targeting Batwoman for now, until something else comes along to attack (the next Star Wars? Stargirl? Ms. Marvel? Mighty Thor? Who knows).

Many don't read the comics and know of Batman from other media, so they can't tell the difference between Batwoman and Batgirl (or Catwoman apparently), and are too lazy to look it up. And since Batwoman, unlike Batgirl, is very new to media outside of the comics, most non-comic fans will assume she is Batgirl and have jumped to the conclusion that she was re-written as a lesbian by the CW.

Mind you, if it was a Batgirl show, it would still be getting review bombed for being a female lead and the absence of Batman, but likely a bit less 'cos Babs is straight.

That, and the actress seems to have a swarm of dedicated haters (and judging by the comments they leave on articles about her etc, most are also based on misogyny and homophobia, whilst some others attack her for being a "fake lesbian" as they put it).

Actually, if you remember back to the casting controversy, many of the twitter haters attacked her for stuff like "not being lesbian enough", "a lesbian that appeals to straight people", or being "too pretty". A different species of troll, but also trolls who just have it out for the actress.

https://www.advocate.com/arts-entert...-rose-batwoman

Heh. I should have realized there would be trolls from the other side attacking the show and her, too.

[Captain Smith]

Just a slightly facetious question then, if you don't want relationship issues and you don't want escalating discovery of a mystery/adversary ... what's left for a serialized show to do? your stuck with a monster/villain of the week with little to no continued development of relationships or thing to uncover.

That's the point. I'm not interesting the level of relationship that is presented in the Arrowverse shows. They are rather cliched and trivial. Other serialized shows such as Luther or Killing Eve are orders of magnitude better in having a relationship critical to the plot itself. The Arrow shows are rather side issues that interfere with story dealing. Plus the acting and writing aren't up to the dramatic and psychological complexity in art that focuses on relationship issues. Look at Alex in Supergirl. I want a baby, wah, wah. So she breaks up. Is that deep or cliched?

Shows have presented reasonable one or two night episodes. The best of the X-Files or the Law and Orders were such. Also, the serialization is obviously forced to stretch out as cursed the Flash awhile ago.

In the comics, the superhero level conflict was paramount for the most part, relationships were side shows. It's a mistake to make Bats a story of forbidden and frustrated love. She needs to establish herself as a peak human player before the angst.

Martial arts training by itself doesn't make you peak human, it takes more. She hasn't shown that she has that level. Bats level folks always had to avoid just being shot - he did it by becoming pretty close to superhuman. I don't see this Kate yet.

[DarthBubba]

My biggest issue is the premise...having Bats just dip out of Gotham makes ZERO sense. It never works in my eyes. It was stupid in the Birds of Prey show of years ago, it was and is stupid here. But thats the problem with doing a show in Gotham is explaining some reason why Bats aint there and have everyone and mother refer to him, but we never see him.

I just mentally explained it away as this is during the time he "died" at the hands of Darkseid and was really traveling through time. Perhaps no one on Earth was privy to that knowledge.

[AnakinFlair]

I was looking forward to the show but was disappointed. Several reasons:

1. Batwoman/Kate was unconvincing as someone who could be peak human (not because she is a woman). She didn't have the martial arts umami (so to speak) of Bats in the books, movies or Ollie. I just didn't see her as a fighter that wouldn't have trouble with an average but trained opponent. Certainly not up to League of Assassins women from Arrow.

I will agree with you on this- the fight choreography in the pilot was garbage. Very lackluster fights that didn't excite me at all. But that's just the pilot, and I'm hoping that it improves from here on out.

2. Must every CW show now have gender identity and love as a crucial part of the story. Sigh - who cares. A season of tension between Kate and Sophie - this isnt' a soap opera or is it?

3. A big old conspiracy. What happened to the sister, why is she a super villain, who is behind her? Let's reveal it all so slowly with much angst.

It's just boring that every show must have 'questions' that take forever to answer. The conspiracies usually are forced just to stretch out a season.

That's the point. I'm not interesting the level of relationship that is presented in the Arrowverse shows. They are rather cliched and trivial. Other serialized shows such as Luther or Killing Eve are orders of magnitude better in having a relationship critical to the plot itself. The Arrow shows are rather side issues that interfere with story dealing. Plus the acting and writing aren't up to the dramatic and psychological complexity in art that focuses on relationship issues. Look at Alex in Supergirl. I want a baby, wah, wah. So she breaks up. Is that deep or cliched?

Here is the thing, expecially with the Alex/Maggie relationship: the whole baby angle was terrible, and contrived, and horribly written. That being said, the writers wrote themselves into a corner by having Alex propose to Maggie, when the actress that was playing Maggie was only supposed to be a guest star and had no desire to become a series regular. So they either needed to cast an actress that wanted to stick around, or they needed to try and work out a deal with the actress like the one they have with the actress playing Lyla on Arrow. Yeah, she's Dig's wife, but we only see her every so often.

Shows have presented reasonable one or two night episodes. The best of the X-Files or the Law and Orders were such. Also, the serialization is obviously forced to stretch out as cursed the Flash awhile ago.

Honestly, it sounds like you hate serialized stories on TV, and are more a fan of the villain/monster of the week formats of X-Files or Law and Order. Or would you prefer something like Buffy, where they had a lot of monsters of the week, but also had a season-long story running as a b-plot up until the end of the season?

[Captain Smith]

You have great insight. I prefer that the serialization run as a background plot and also have a definitive end. Many shows think to play the 'conspiracy' for the seven years until the show is sold to syndication. To repeat myself, the love life of the players is not of major interest to me in this type of show. To use an old, old show - if I were watching Victory at Sea, I wouldn't want an episode to focus on whether Admiral Halsey was having a fight with his wife, while fighting the Japanese.

[Anarchist]

8% Rotten Tomatoes audience score.
This is so utterly ridiculous.

But hey, strangely enough, the newest youtube videos (Promo etc) have a more favorable ratio now.

[djoki96]

8% Rotten Tomatoes audience score.
This is so utterly ridiculous.

But hey, strangely enough, the newest youtube videos (Promo etc) have a more favorable ratio now.

Allegedly (as in, I heard from a friend but didn't check) the comicgate guy also gave the show a relatively positive review, so that's even more surprising, if true.

[AnakinFlair]

You have great insight. I prefer that the serialization run as a background plot and also have a definitive end. Many shows think to play the 'conspiracy' for the seven years until the show is sold to syndication. To repeat myself, the love life of the players is not of major interest to me in this type of show. To use an old, old show - if I were watching Victory at Sea, I wouldn't want an episode to focus on whether Admiral Halsey was having a fight with his wife, while fighting the Japanese.

Fair enough. Honestly, I think that some of these shows would work better that way. The Flash is a prime example- you could have several episodes where he's just fighting the Rogues, with a bigger story bubbling along in the background. Instead, the show has suffered dragging out a story for the whole season.

[Caivu]

The pilot encore showing had 1.1 million viewers.

https://tvline.com/2019/10/09/the-fl...on-6-premiere/

[superduperman]

To me the "backlash" is proof that it really is just hatred of diversity. AFAIK, this Ruby Rose hasn't really said anything controversial. This isn't a Captain Marvel situation where they took something she said out of context or anything. The character actually is a lesbian in the comic so they can't accuse it of "ruining" the character by changing her. None of the old excuses apply here. If anything, this proves that those who dismissed the criticisms of things like Captain Marvel were right all along.

[djoki96]

The character actually is a lesbian in the comic so they can't accuse it of "ruining" the character by changing her. None of the old excuses apply here.

Oh, they can, they just have to mistake her for Batgirl or Catwoman.

[Bat-Meal]

Heh. I should have realized there would be trolls from the other side attacking the show and her, too.

While it's true that the majority of the bad faith 'reviews' are by bigots, the last time I a took a scan through, a number of them are (sometimes additionally) hating on the following:

• Ruby Rose's acting
• Ruby Rose's body-mass and/or overall physique
• Ruby Rose's accent
• Ruby Rose's hair
• Ruby Rose's clothing
• Ruby Rose not being Jewish
• Ruby Rose's tattoos
• Ruby Rose "ruining" Batwoman
• The Trailers
• Caroline Dries
• Greg Berlanti
• The CW
• DC Comics
• Warner Brothers
• Alice
• Supergirl
• Justin Beiber
• Catwoman
• Batgirl
• IMDB's rating system

There are a lot that are hating on Ruby Rose and little else though. Apparently her very existence is offensive.

Other comments were basically advertisements to watch Titans/Pennyworth/Gotham. Then there are the ones that feel that the Batwoman show is getting all the credit for having a gay lead, and that feel that Legends/Black Lightning are being overlooked when they have lesbian/bisexual superhero characters as well. Also saw some complains that Kate Kane is too similar to Alex Danvers.

To me the "backlash" is proof that it really is just hatred of diversity. AFAIK, this Ruby Rose hasn't really said anything controversial. This isn't a Captain Marvel situation where they took something she said out of context or anything. The character actually is a lesbian in the comic so they can't accuse it of "ruining" the character by changing her. None of the old excuses apply here. If anything, this proves that those who dismissed the criticisms of things like Captain Marvel were right all along.

They have taken some of her words out of context though. In a recent magazine article, not sure which one it was - but the full quote is easy to find:

"Some people will love the show, some people might be surprised and find that they really enjoy it, and some people might not see themselves on the screen and therefore not see the point. But there’s obviously plenty of shows for people like that. There’s plenty of shows for white old men."

So naturally many are raging and claiming that Ruby Rose is: racist, ageist, sexist.

[regnak]

While it's true that the majority of the bad faith 'reviews' are by bigots, the last time I a took a scan through, a number of them are (sometimes additionally) hating on the following:

• Ruby Rose's acting
• Ruby Rose's body-mass and/or overall physique
• Ruby Rose's accent
• Ruby Rose's hair
• Ruby Rose "ruining" Batwoman
• Caroline Dries
• Greg Berlanti
• The CW
• DC Comics
• Warner Brothers
• Alice
• Supergirl
• Justin Beiber
• Catwoman
• Batgirl
• IMDB's rating system

There are a lot that are hating on Ruby Rose and little else though. Apparently her very existence is offensive.

Yes on another site where I lurk a poster who is a lesbian and loves White Canary was hammering her acting worse than anyone else there. That makes me think people who would normally support the show are not that enthusiastic.

[Jokerz79]

Yes on another site where I lurk a poster who is a lesbian and loves White Canary was hammering her acting worse than anyone else there. That makes me think people who would normally support the show are not that enthusiastic.

Don't get me wrong I think the usual suspects gave it the bad reviews but when Ruby Rose was announced Gay Twitter kind of had this reaction.

CW: We're doing a Batwoman show.

Gay Twitter: Yes!

CW: We're casting a lesbian lead to play Kate.

Gay Twitter: Yes!

CW: We cast Ruby Rose.

Gay Twitter: Wait let's talk about this because we just got monkey pawed.