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Thread: Batwoman (2019)

  1. #1006
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Kate not being a hero doesn't excuse being a dick to (or at the very least treating in a disrespectful way) someone who's been helping you out a lot and has saved your life a couple of times. But yes, I'm sure she will grow to be a better person overall.
    You mean Luke? How is she being a dick to him?
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  2. #1007
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    You mean Luke? How is she being a dick to him?
    She always seems pretty demanding and abrasive towards him, and without much of a nice word or thank you for all the work she has him doing.

    She even said his dad was better then he is, or something to that effect.

  3. #1008
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She always seems pretty demanding and abrasive towards him, and without much of a nice word or thank you for all the work she has him doing.

    She even said his dad was better then he is, or something to that effect.
    It comes off to me as more of an ersatz sibling rivalry. She loves Luke but likes to tease him. And he loves her so Luke is willing to take her nonsense.

  4. #1009
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    It comes off to me as more of an ersatz sibling rivalry. She loves Luke but likes to tease him. And he loves her so Luke is willing to take her nonsense.
    I mean, I'm not really feeling the love. They feel more like co-workers forced to work together to me who are begrudgingly getting to know one another.

  5. #1010
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I'm not feeling any "sibling love" either here - Kate just kinda bulldozed her way into the Batstuff and Luke supports what she's doing because he believes in it, but she treats him like an assistant rather than an ally who has no real reason to help her. That's how it feels to me anyway...

  6. #1011
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    Yeah, thats the problem. She doesn't treat anybody around her as equals, except Sophie and her father.
    And she tried to cuddle her murderous sister, while treating her totally nice step-sister like crap.

    I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not demonizing Kate, I know its obviously supposed to develop her as a character. The whole Alice/Mary thing blowing up in her face is a nice consequence, but I think it's still valid to point out.
    Last edited by Anarchist; 12-07-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #1012
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Ultimately, Kate (and Ollie) are made from the "brooding hero who alienates those around them" Batman mold.

  8. #1013
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    I've watched the first two episodes of the show and tbh it's better than I thought it would be. I didn't think that Batwoman could hold her own show but so far its been good. my only nitpick is I think it should've been on DC universe as I think the show has a lot more potential but seems to be held back because of tv time constraints and rating restraints. Additionally, I think its tone would've made it a good crossover candidate for Titans.

  9. #1014
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not demonizing Kate, I know its obviously supposed to develop her as a character. The whole Alice/Mary thing blowing up in her face is a nice consequence, but I think it's still valid to point out.
    Her being a jerk to Mary/Bette and Luke at the start is surprisingly consistent with the comics though. In the original solo Kate is a jerk to Bette at first, and during the 'Tec Gotham Knights run she was also a mega-jerk to Luke as soon as he joined the team. Interestingly, they both quietly tolerate her behaviour until they prove themselves, and she stops being such a dick. Then they become friendly instead.

    As far as the comics go though, Kate's reasoning for being a dick to them both is made clear. In Bette's case Kate was being over-protective and wanting to drive her away from being a vigilante. In Luke's case Kate thought he was being a vigilante for fun and wasn't taking it seriously, therefore could wind-up getting hurt or killed because he wasn't really a 'soldier'. When each proved themselves serious and capable her attitude changed, and she respected them.

    Not sure what TV Kate's reason for being a jerk is, since neither Mary or Luke are vigilantes (and unlike the comics Kate isn't all that experienced at it either), other than emotional immaturity.

    I think TV Kate is just childish, and will undergo emotional growth.

  10. #1015
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Her being a jerk to Mary/Bette and Luke at the start is surprisingly consistent with the comics though. In the original solo Kate is a jerk to Bette at first, and during the 'Tec Gotham Knights run she was also a mega-jerk to Luke as soon as he joined the team. Interestingly, they both quietly tolerate her behaviour until they prove themselves, and she stops being such a dick. Then they become friendly instead.

    As far as the comics go though, Kate's reasoning for being a dick to them both is made clear. In Bette's case Kate was being over-protective and wanting to drive her away from being a vigilante. In Luke's case Kate thought he was being a vigilante for fun and wasn't taking it seriously, therefore could wind-up getting hurt or killed because he wasn't really a 'soldier'. When each proved themselves serious and capable her attitude changed, and she respected them.

    Not sure what TV Kate's reason for being a jerk is, since neither Mary or Luke are vigilantes (and unlike the comics Kate isn't all that experienced at it either), other than emotional immaturity.

    I think TV Kate is just childish, and will undergo emotional growth.
    I blame Sophie, to an extent.

    Kate lost her sister when she was a kid. Then she allows herself to fall in love with Sophie, who may have loved her back, but then Sophie was forced to choose between Kate and the military and chose the military, and Kate was forced to leave. I'll even blame Jacob a little here- he sent Kate to train all over the world for a job he never intended on giving her. So Kate has abandonment issues and now probably finds it hard to trust people, lest she gets hurt when they inevitable let her down. And so she keeps everyone at arms length and makes no effort to be nice to anyone.

  11. #1016
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Kate has abandonment issues and now probably finds it hard to trust people, lest she gets hurt when they inevitable let her down. And so she keeps everyone at arms length and makes no effort to be nice to anyone.
    Fair point.

    Don't get why she's initially nice to Supergirl though, feels like inconsistent characterization. She should have been as impatient and short with Supergirl as she was with Flash and Arrow, in Elseworlds.

  12. #1017
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Fair point.

    Don't get why she's initially nice to Supergirl though, feels like inconsistent characterization. She should have been as impatient and short with Supergirl as she was with Flash and Arrow, in Elseworlds.
    She initially was short with her, too, but then they actually talked and got to know each other a bit. Plus Kara has a substantially friendlier nature than Barry and certainly Oliver.
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  13. #1018
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Since Jacob has not been serving mentor role in the TV series like he does in the comics, I wonder if Kate will get someone else as mentor, or if they'll keep her figuring it out as she goes.

    Flash had 'Wells' and Joe, and Supergirl had Cat Grant, Martian Manhunter, and Alex. Who does Kate have guiding her.

    We saw Kate had a teacher in the pilot, and brief mention that Julia trained her too, but nothing so far is shown of an actual mentor role. Seriously, who can she turn to other than Luke, who is really a peer.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 12-09-2019 at 01:53 AM.

  14. #1019
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    She initially was short with her, too, but then they actually talked and got to know each other a bit. Plus Kara has a substantially friendlier nature than Barry and certainly Oliver.
    Barry is pretty friendly, but he's not the ray of sunshine and rainbows that is Kara .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Since Jacob has not been serving mentor role in the TV series like he does in the comics, I wonder if Kate will get someone else as mentor, or if they'll keep her figuring it out as she goes.

    Flash had 'Wells' and Joe, and Supergirl had Cat Grant, Martian Manhunter, and Alex. Who does Kate have guiding her.

    We saw Kate had a teacher in the pilot, and brief mention that Julia trained her too, but nothing so far is shown of an actual mentor role. Seriously, who can she turn to other than Luke, who is really a peer.
    Kevin Conroy ?

  15. #1020
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Barry is pretty friendly, but he's not the ray of sunshine and rainbows that is Kara .

    Kevin Conroy ?
    Was about to say that myself. Some of the promos have shown the two of them talking outside the initial encounter.

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