Cyclops Appreciation

[sagiravi]

Thank you very very VERY much for that information - which I have acted upon! [You might want to edit your post to make it about something else now just in case that was a bannable thing ;-)] I could hug you right now!

Sagiravi just editing to say thank you again - thanks to you have just read #2 where we first meet Evolution Scott and he's so sweet and good and kind and everyone is so unutterably foul to him except for Xavier and Logan who are just the best versions ever of Xavier and Logan.

Xavier spoilers:

mind-manipulating a person because he just can't bear to watch someone else throw Scott's niceness back in his face

end of spoilers and Logan spoilers:

threatening that doctor with his claws because he's so pissed off about the way Scott's being treated

end of spoilers just made me want to hug them both.

I didn't think it was possible for me to love Evolution!Logan or Evolution!Scott more than I already did but now - thanks to you - I do.

Oh you're welcome, really appreciate your kindness . That was some nice scott's origin story wasn't it, and yeah best scott-logan relationship ever ! I just wish they continued the Evolution comics at least, issue 10 was supposed to debut Mr Sinister but got cancelled due to low sales, which explains why issue 9 had such a crappy art.

[sagiravi]

I'm not sure how the physics of time travel work in the Marvel Universe, but this seems to make sense. So long as the O5 are in the future, their older counterparts aren't going to have the new memories that the O5 create. That would make things too tricky and complicated. It would only be when they return to the past that those memories are set into place. However, that all depends on whether or not their memories get erased. If their memories are erased before they go back to the past, then their adult counterparts wouldn't have them. Time travel is confusing.

That said, I hope that at least some of their memories are retained or preserved when they go back. I think that if the O5 go back to the past with at least some foresight, that could change a few things. That could, in theory, change the outcome of events like the Phoenix Saga, Inferno, Schism, or Avengers vs. X-men. It's just a matter of how bold Marvel is willing to be. I don't see them changing or undoing iconic stories like the Phoenix Saga. But I do see them tweaking a few things in the past to change the present. That probably won't happen for another two to three years at least. But at some point, Marvel is going to make an event out of it.

As much as i would love Bendis to retcon the entire Morrison run, didn't he clearly specify that he wont retcon anything and that there will be a road to redemption for older Scott but without any going back (like stopping scott from killing Xavier) or any other cheap stuff, and that he will somehow be perceived as Heroic by the other Heroes by the end of the redemption arc. I have this feeling that whatever younger Scott does in the present will somehow effect the personality of older Scott, when younger Scott returns back to his own time, possibly healing all his trauma and other dark stuff.

[anthony_lynch15]

Wait, wasn't the plan to leave him to rot in a coma long enough for her (imaginary) Hellfire buddies to kill everyone? The crazed/murderous angle has got to be what turned him on, right?

Either that or he really enjoyed being Logan for a while.

Wow, that's amazing!

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Including the memories of his younger self kissing Wolverine's clone and some space alien chicks obviously..

Totally worth it. Memories of that space road trip will provide wonderful ammo to torture Alex for years. The Tyke/X-23 awkwardness is totally worth it.

Either that or he really enjoyed being Logan for a while.

Not quite sure how it would work with the 'having rough sex WITH Logan' angle. That'd be weird even by Cyclops standards.

[anthony_lynch15]

Actually, Anthony, if you could bear it I would love to hear your thoughts on where Hank is at now and how he got there and his current state of mind and his relationship with Scott. I love them both and it's quite difficult to find people who want to talk about how things are with Henry now because obviously he and Scott are so estranged. I don't mind either of them being analyzed or criticized. I just like reading about them.

Okay then, so briefly here's my train of thought with regards to Hank and why he's so angry at Scott.

I think a part of Hank has always looked to Scott as a moral compass.
It's not that Hank can't tell the difference between right and wrong.
But more like once he starts working on a problem he gets so single minded or obsessed with the problem that he can forget that right, wrong and common sense even exist.
It's how it turned himself in to a furry beast in the first place, it's why he almost went too far during Endangered species, it's why he brought the O5 to the present and it's why he's currently teamed up with the Illuminati in New Avengers.
He even has the Dark Beast to look at as an example of just how far off the moral path he could go if he doesn't keep himself in check.

So knowing these things about himself I think Hank might have held Scott up as the moral authority to aim for.
He held Cyclops up to a higher standard than he even holds himself and relied on Scott to often make those moral choices for him.

I've often found that Hank's been willing to make the guns, bombs and whatever other dangerous dohickeys need made.
But he also tends to avoid any situation were he may have "pull the trigger", often passing the tech he makes off to someone else to use or decide to use.



Usually he can rely on the person making those choices makes the right call. Be it Cyclops, Storm, Captain America or whoever else he defers to.
And in situations where a particularly hard choice had to be made he could at least feel that it was made with good intentions.
However more and more often Scott began to make more and more morally questionable choices.
Especially when he formed a hit team and started preempting threats instead of reacting to them.

So not only did Scott involve Hank he his morally questionable deeds, but he also took away Hank's support system.
If Scott can make all these choices then what's to stop Hank from doing them too.
Or worse what's to stop Hank from going even further than Scott and the only situation spiralling out of control.
So Hank decided to leave the X-Men and prevent himself from going to far.

But the problem is, even removed from Scott he still compromised himself.
He discovered that Logan was still running a hit squad but he was too invested in the new school to abandon them - compromised ethics.
He joined the Illumanti on a mission that could mean they have to destroy other worlds - massively compromised ethics.
When faced with death he took drastic measures to bring the O5 to the present and potential damage space and time - holy crap Hank ethics and even common sense out the window - WTF!

Even away from Scott he's doing all these things.
So I think he's more angry at himself and every questionable decision he's made and continues to make.
And that he's aiming all that anger at the man who he feels caused it all.
The man who he feels represents everything he doesn't want to become.
The man he had faith in to do the right thing and keep himself on the right road and who then broke that trust.

(And we now know what Hank thinks of faith and belief.)



Add to that the general turmoil of the X-Men's lives and the fact that Hank has watched many friends die (some for what he sees as Cyclops' cause).
Watched one of his closest friends (Jean) get betrayed by Scott and then lost her too.
Has witnessed or seen the aftermath of so many horrific events.
Has been tortured and left to fend for himself all so one of his best friends deemed him an acceptable casualty of war.
The guy is barely hanging on by a thread.

And where's all the anger that all those things caused going to get aimed.
How about the man Hank believed in , the man that took support system and beliefs and turned them on their head.
The man whose been heavily involved in some of the worst events of his life.
No wonder Hank is so pissed!
He's only human, and all that anger has to go somewhere.

<The views expressed in this post are an opinion and one of a person who is a Beast fan and a big Cyclops fan - so take them as you will>

[Rochedalaix]

Okay then, so briefly here's my train of thought with regards to Hank and why he's so angry at Scott.

I think a part of Hank has always looked to Scott as a moral compass.
It's not that Hank can't tell the difference between right and wrong.
But more like once he starts working on a problem he gets so single minded or obsessed with the problem that he can forget that right, wrong and common sense even exist.
It's how it turned himself in to a furry beast in the first place, it's why he almost went too far during Endangered species, it's why he brought the O5 to the present and it's why he's currently teamed up with the Illuminati in New Avengers.
He even has the Dark Beast to look at as an example of just how far off the moral path he could go if he doesn't keep himself in check.

So knowing these things about himself I think Hank might have held Scott up as the moral authority to aim for.
He held Cyclops up to a higher standard than he even holds himself and relied on Scott to often make those moral choices for him.

I've often found that Hank's been willing to make the guns, bombs and whatever other dangerous dohickeys need made.
But he also tends to avoid any situation were he may have "pull the trigger", often passing the tech he makes off to someone else to use or decide to use.



Usually he can rely on the person making those choices makes the right call. Be it Cyclops, Storm, Captain America or whoever else he defers to.
And in situations where a particularly hard choice had to be made he could at least feel that it was made with good intentions.
However more and more often Scott began to make more and more morally questionable choices.
Especially when he formed a hit team and started preempting threats instead of reacting to them.

So not only did Scott involve Hank he his morally questionable deeds, but he also took away Hank's support system.
If Scott can make all these choices then what's to stop Hank from doing them too.
Or worse what's to stop Hank from going even further than Scott and the only situation spiralling out of control.
So Hank decided to leave the X-Men and prevent himself from going to far.

But the problem is, even removed from Scott he still compromised himself.
He discovered that Logan was still running a hit squad but he was too invested in the new school to abandon them - compromised ethics.
He joined the Illumanti on a mission that could mean they have to destroy other worlds - massively compromised ethics.
When faced with death he took drastic measures to bring the O5 to the present and potential damage space and time - holy crap Hank ethics and even common sense out the window - WTF!

Even away from Scott he's doing all these things.
So I think he's more angry at himself and every questionable decision he's made and continues to make.
And that he's aiming all that anger at the man who he feels caused it all.
The man who he feels represents everything he doesn't want to become.
The man he had faith in to do the right thing and keep himself on the right road and who then broke that trust.

(And we now know what Hank thinks of faith and belief.)



Add to that the general turmoil of the X-Men's lives and the fact that Hank has watched many friends die (some for what he sees as Cyclops' cause).
Watched one of his closest friends (Jean) get betrayed by Scott and then lost her too.
Has witnessed or seen the aftermath of so many horrific events.
Has been tortured and left to fend for himself all so one of his best friends deemed him an acceptable casualty of war.
The guy is barely hanging on by a thread.

And where's all the anger that all those things caused going to get aimed.
How about the man Hank believed in , the man that took support system and beliefs and turned them on their head.
The man whose been heavily involved in some of the worst events of his life.
No wonder Hank is so pissed!
He's only human, and all that anger has to go somewhere.

<The views expressed in this post are an opinion and one of a person who is a Beast fan and a big Cyclops fan - so take them as you will>

To be honest I do not really see why Beast had a problem with Cyclops X-Force, what was he supposed to do?

[elgrey]

Okay then, so briefly here's my train of thought with regards to Hank and why he's so angry at Scott.

I think a part of Hank has always looked to Scott as a moral compass.
It's not that Hank can't tell the difference between right and wrong.
But more like once he starts working on a problem he gets so single minded or obsessed with the problem that he can forget that right, wrong and common sense even exist.
It's how it turned himself in to a furry beast in the first place, it's why he almost went too far during Endangered species, it's why he brought the O5 to the present and it's why he's currently teamed up with the Illuminati in New Avengers.
He even has the Dark Beast to look at as an example of just how far off the moral path he could go if he doesn't keep himself in check.

So knowing these things about himself I think Hank might have held Scott up as the moral authority to aim for.
He held Cyclops up to a higher standard than he even holds himself and relied on Scott to often make those moral choices for him.

I've often found that Hank's been willing to make the guns, bombs and whatever other dangerous dohickeys need made.
But he also tends to avoid any situation were he may have "pull the trigger", often passing the tech he makes off to someone else to use or decide to use.



Usually he can rely on the person making those choices makes the right call. Be it Cyclops, Storm, Captain America or whoever else he defers to.
And in situations where a particularly hard choice had to be made he could at least feel that it was made with good intentions.
However more and more often Scott began to make more and more morally questionable choices.
Especially when he formed a hit team and started preempting threats instead of reacting to them.

So not only did Scott involve Hank he his morally questionable deeds, but he also took away Hank's support system.
If Scott can make all these choices then what's to stop Hank from doing them too.
Or worse what's to stop Hank from going even further than Scott and the only situation spiralling out of control.
So Hank decided to leave the X-Men and prevent himself from going to far.

But the problem is, even removed from Scott he still compromised himself.
He discovered that Logan was still running a hit squad but he was too invested in the new school to abandon them - compromised ethics.
He joined the Illumanti on a mission that could mean they have to destroy other worlds - massively compromised ethics.
When faced with death he took drastic measures to bring the O5 to the present and potential damage space and time - holy crap Hank ethics and even common sense out the window - WTF!

Even away from Scott he's doing all these things.
So I think he's more angry at himself and every questionable decision he's made and continues to make.
And that he's aiming all that anger at the man who he feels caused it all.
The man who he feels represents everything he doesn't want to become.
The man he had faith in to do the right thing and keep himself on the right road and who then broke that trust.

(And we now know what Hank thinks of faith and belief.)



Add to that the general turmoil of the X-Men's lives and the fact that Hank has watched many friends die (some for what he sees as Cyclops' cause).
Watched one of his closest friends (Jean) get betrayed by Scott and then lost her too.
Has witnessed or seen the aftermath of so many horrific events.
Has been tortured and left to fend for himself all so one of his best friends deemed him an acceptable casualty of war.
The guy is barely hanging on by a thread.

And where's all the anger that all those things caused going to get aimed.
How about the man Hank believed in , the man that took support system and beliefs and turned them on their head.
The man whose been heavily involved in some of the worst events of his life.
No wonder Hank is so pissed!
He's only human, and all that anger has to go somewhere.

<The views expressed in this post are an opinion and one of a person who is a Beast fan and a big Cyclops fan - so take them as you will>

Great post, anthony! Thank you so much for putting that together. Love your insights into Henry. I really enjoyed reading it and everything you said makes perfect sense to me.

[OpticDreams]

The Tyke ongoing is a clever little series. I'm in love!!!

[Neowing]

Great post but Beast is still a hypocrite and worse than the man he apparently blames everything for.

The adults getting their memories back when 05 goes back thing. The problem with that theory is that the 05 knows way to much, they will definitely alter the future with the new memories.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Gotta say, I'm still reeling from today's issue of Cyclops' solo.

Scott's creepers have it wrong. Sure, the guy might enjoy the bondage and pain, but he'd rather hang out and have choc-lat milk-shakes. Adorable.

Great post but Beast is still a hypocrite and worse than the man he apparently blames everything for.

That's kind of the problem. Cyke wasn't just a moral compass, he also doubled as a the X-Men's punching bag. With that emotional crutch gone, Beast and various other X-Men are totally unraveling.

[nx01a]

Cyclops #2 was another solid issue. Action, character moments, Scott doing some cool power stunts, spoilers:

the Danger Room Date, Corsair's condition worsening,

end of spoilers and Scott flying a spaceship... I loved it.

[Neowing]

I also loved the issue.

[Neowing]

Cyclops the doubter!

[nx01a]

Cyclops the doubter!

Scott sings the song of my soul!

[pandesal]

So, I was reading the Hoyay/X-Men entry in Tv Tropes (don't judge me!) when I happened upon this entry:

"While it could be interpreted as the actions of two men who have known each other since they were teenagers, Angel does seem pretty fond of randomly picking Cyclops up and flying off with him, and Cyclops seems more prone to affectionate physical contact with Warren, and to smiling".


Now I may not be as big a Cyclops fan as I thought I was because I don't remember Scott & Warren being this close. Do you guys know which run/era this was?