Cyclops Appreciation

[xiyon]

Folks, you're overthinking this Blame/No Blame thingy. BendisClops was tweaked so that Eva Bell could fawn over him and so that he could convince Kitty Pryde not to murder him. GillenClops didn't exactly fit those parameters.

Pretty much this. It's why Bendis' rendition doesn't sit well with me (which was the basis of the discussion, anyway).

[AJpyro]

I miss GillenClops. You guys think he would've gone renegade?

Cause Renegade for Life.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Pretty much this. It's why Bendis' rendition doesn't sit well with me (which was the basis of the discussion, anyway).

Take the good with the bad, I say. GillenClops has indulged into some epic trolling.

I miss GillenClops. You guys think he would've gone renegade?

If by "Renegade", you mean there wouldn't be a need for a Magneto solo, then, yeah, he probably would have.

[AJpyro]

Take the good with the bad, I say. GillenClops has indulged into some epic trolling.



If by "Renegade", you mean there wouldn't be a need for a Magneto solo, then, yeah, he probably would have.

Then...dang that's a toughie. Magneto is awesome right now but i'd like my RenegadeClops.

[Sardorim]

So Maria Hill does seem to be embarrassed about how things got out of control. Think she'll hold off on trying to arrest Cyclops now or will he give her a reason to actually try and put her fantasies about him into practice?

[xiyon]

So Maria Hill does seem to be embarrassed about how things got out of control. Think she'll hold off on trying to arrest Cyclops now or will he give her a reason to actually try and put her fantasies about him into practice?

It's likely that she'll hold off trying to arrest Cyclops so she could reevaluate her plan of attack.

First on the list is to actually buy a set of handcuffs and take S&M lessons. Next is to get buy him a puppy.

None of Cyke's exes ever bought him a puppy.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Then...dang that's a toughie. Magneto is awesome right now but i'd like my RenegadeClops.

Ooops. What I wanted to say was that BendisClops indulged in some epic trolling. For instance, we wouldn't have gotten the Smirk from GillenClops. He probably would've just glared blankly. Which is still awesome, but the Smirk is something else.

None of Cyke's exes ever bought him a puppy.

I bet that's what Eva saw when she time-traveled. A laidback, sane, puppy-loving Cyclops.

Yikes, talk about a dystopian future.

[xiyon]

I bet that's what Eva saw when she time-traveled. A laidback, sane, puppy-loving Cyclops.

Yikes, talk about a dystopian future.

I recall your observation that things are about to hit the fan once Cyke rocks the casual threads-- normally, it results in the world ending. I can't even begin to imagine what the future will be when Cyke's rocking the casual threads and playing with a puppy.

[elgrey]

Xiyon, I completely take your point that the way things have been set up, Scott, the guy who always blamed himself for everything, whether it was his fault or not, is now the person trying to excuse what he did, when that has never been who he was. I think that's a really good point and is a result of the OOC Everyone Hates Scott Now situation that happened after AvX. It would have fitted a lot better with previous canon if the X-Men had been pointing out that Scott was possessed and not responsible and not letting the Avengers hand him over to S.H.I.E.L.D. and iffy imprisonment and Scott was the one who was wondering if it was him who'd killed Xavier rather than the Phoenix and being mired in self-loathing and self-blame. I think it would have fitted better with everyone's previous characterization, the other X-Men and Scott, but the way things were structured there was no one to be an advocate for Scott except Scott and someone needed to point out to new readers that Scott wasn't exactly Scott when Xavier was killed. Given all his self-flagellating in the past, it is a pity they didn't manage to get more story fuel out of the guy who blamed himself for everything finally doing something really terrible and what effect that would have on him.

I think the end of AvX effed up a lot of things. It's not easy to get past scenes of all the X-Men combining with the Avengers to try to murder someone who used to be their friend while that friend's father figure tries to keep him still so they can do it. Presumably they wouldn't have written a story where Xavier threw lit matches onto a gasoline spill next to a primary school just to see if he could make things go 'boom!' but they did have him deliberately provoking one of the most powerful forces in the cosmos by replicating the last set of circumstances where that powerful force had gone insane. Any more than they would have had Logan and the other X-Men attempting to hold Scott down in a dark alley so the Purifiers could murder him but really that was what they did, they just did it for the Avengers instead. Holding your friend down so heroes can kill him not really any better than holding him down so deranged bigots can kill him, when how he's going to end up is dead. When Hawkeye shooting an arrow into his neck doesn't cause a moment's pause from any of Scott's former friends it's hard to see how anyone's characterization makes any sense, or can be retconned later into making sense at the time in a way that doesn't mean that all the X-Men are just really awful people now.

And because the Avengers being right is the one canon that can never be questioned in universe regarding AvX, we haven't even had the X-Men discussing what they could have done differently that might have brought about a different outcome or questioning why they could recognize the phoenix was driving their friend's actions with Jean but not with Scott. With Logan and the other X-Men being complicit in the Avengers strategy there's no chance of them saying 'Hey, maybe we got it as wrong as Scott did'. And as long as they're not admitting they or the Avengers screwed up there is no voice to point out that it wasn't really 'Scott' who killed Xavier, but the Phoenix, or even to debate degrees of guilt, except for that conversation he had with Erik, where Erik pointed out that the phoenix wasn't angry with Charles, Scott was, where once again Scott ends up sounding whiny and defensive instead of guilt-racked and self-hating. Unfortunately, the Phoenix having previous form for going insane when people attack Scott in front of it invalidates Mag's psychologically really valid and interesting argument in some ways. But, again, no one seems able to talk about what happened in the Hellfire Club the last time the phoenix went Dark Phoenix because if they do then the advice Logan gave the Avengers looks less misguided than downright malevolent, which I'm sure was never meant to be a plot point. There were countless examples of Logan caring about Scott despite Scott having been Jean's choice instead of Logan so I'm sure we weren't meant to assume that Logan was still sulking enough about Schism that he'd give the Avengers deliberately bad advice when the fate of the world hangs in the balance. Well, not unless there is some long story arc happening I haven't noticed where Logan has been replaced by an evil Life Model Decoy. I think we were supposed to assume that Logan's advice was not as terrible as it actually was.

I'd say poor Brian Michael Bendis is stuck clearing up other people's AvX mess except he's one of the people who made the mess in the first place so it really should be his job to try to fix some of what he broke. Those writers basically made smoothies while leaving the top off the food processor off and now that kitchen is a pigsty and yes, they should have to get up there and scrape all that squishy stuff off that they left on the ceiling. But while definitely agreeing with you in feeling that is a shame that Scott's 'everything ever is all my fault' natural inclination didn't get utilized more effectively in a story where he's just caused the death of Xavier I do also feel that, much as I loved Gillen's Scott, he felt less like a recognizable version of Scott than the one Bendis is writing. Scott making excuses for himself is out of character, but he's still more Scott-like than he's been in a while in other ways.

I think Gillen Scott would have owned killing Xavier in a more provocative fashion; he was so much the chilly pragmatist who is less in control than he thinks; so he would probably have been more 'I did it and it was worth it because the world didn't burn and we didn't go extinct' which would have been accurate but not very lovable of him. He was repressing so much of who he used to be to be the man he felt the world and mutants needed him to be that we only really got the outer surface that version of Scott was showing the world until AvX Consequences, whereas we do get to see his inner vulnerability with Bendis Scott.

Until canon refutes it I'm definitely seeing Gillen Scott as Scott+Void and Bendis Scott as Scott-Void. Also, Gillen Scott was so insanely hot that Maria Hill would never have been able to exercise any self control around him. It's probably only his faltering Bendis Scottness that has prevented her from throwing him down and taking him right now.

Agree completely with what you said about Second Coming, too. Kurt was such a hero there, trying to blame Scott for a decision that Kurt made and the heroic self-sacrifice he made to save Hope is just a cheapening of the incredible thing Kurt did, and as Hope ultimately did bond with the phoenix and restore the x-gene, Kurt's was a pivotal action, without which the mutant species would not have been saved.

It's likely that she'll hold off trying to arrest Cyclops so she could reevaluate her plan of attack.

First on the list is to actually buy a set of handcuffs and take S&M lessons. Next is to get buy him a puppy.

None of Cyke's exes ever bought him a puppy.

Maria Hill would be so far ahead of any other contender if she tried that seduction triumvirate! Seriously, Scott would be in the bag.

I really want Scott to have a puppy, and to lose his manly, leaderish train of thought every time it licks his nose.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I recall your observation that things are about to hit the fan once Cyke rocks the casual threads-- normally, it results in the world ending. I can't even begin to imagine what the future will be when Cyke's rocking the casual threads and playing with a puppy.

I know, right? You'd have alternate Cyclopses showing up on Earth 616 and complaining that Cyke being less of an emotionally-stunted jerk is having a horrifying ripple effect across the multiverse. Something about revoltingly wholesome love interests and way too many fluffy pet companions.

I really want Scott to have a puppy, and to lose his manly, leaderish train of thought every time it licks his nose.

I'll raise you. Scott would lose it every time the fluffball would adoringly gaze upon him with those soulful puppy eyes.

[elgrey]

I bet that's what Eva saw when she time-traveled. A laidback, sane, puppy-loving Cyclops.

Yikes, talk about a dystopian future.

I recall your observation that things are about to hit the fan once Cyke rocks the casual threads-- normally, it results in the world ending. I can't even begin to imagine what the future will be when Cyke's rocking the casual threads and playing with a puppy.

Almost certainly a portent of the apocalypse, I would think.

Unfortunately, Scott actually being able to have a child and not give it up is probably another one. Him getting to keep a baby and have a puppy while wearing casual threads is obviously completely out of the question.

I'm sure that would damn the entire multiverse.

[elgrey]

I know, right? You'd have alternate Cyclopses showing up on Earth 616 and complaining that Cyke being less of an emotionally-stunted jerk is having a horrifying ripple effect across the multiverse. Something about revoltingly wholesome love interests and way too many fluffy pet companions.

Scott would counter that his sickeningly adorable puppies are trained in teamwork and are working to help the mutant cause, so there!

I'll raise you. Scott would lose it every time the fluffball would adoringly gaze upon him with those soulful puppy eyes.

Agreed! Who wouldn't, really?

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Scott would counter that his sickeningly adorable puppies are trained in teamwork and are working to help the mutant cause, so there!

Maybe so, but the alternate Scotts would counter that aforementioned sickeningly adorable puppies utterly suck at repelling Revoltingly Wholesome Love Interests.

Agreed! Who wouldn't, really?

For some reason, I get the feeling Emma/Erik/Magik/Dark!Dazzler/Kitty wouldn't take too kindly to Scott mostly ignoring them and fussing over his fluffball during briefings/staff meetings.

[elgrey]

There is so much contradictory advice out there for mutants that it's probably easy to become confused even without phoenix possession

[elgrey]

Maybe so, but the alternate Scotts would counter that aforementioned sickeningly adorable puppies utterly suck at repelling Revoltingly Wholesome Love Interests.

The prospect of having to have sex where no one is tying him to the bedpost or cracking a riding crop against their thigh-high leather boots might at least snap Scott out of it for long enough to recognize that he is presenting a danger to the multiverse in his current fluffy puppy snuggly mode. He might have to decide if he wants Scotts the multiverse over to snuggle up with this:

Or this

For some reason, I get the feeling Emma/Erik/Magik/Dark!Dazzler/Kitty wouldn't take too kindly to Scott mostly ignoring them and fussing over his fluffball during briefings/staff meetings.

God, I so want to see this now!