Cyclops Appreciation

[xiyon]

Beast and Storm are so whiny.... And how does She-Hulk not know how Xavier died?

The more Beast and Storm whine, the sillier they become =)) As for She-Hulk, it's clear that she doesn't follow Cap/Tony & the JGS on Twitter...

[phantom1592]

The more Beast and Storm whine, the sillier they become =))

I REALLLY don't have a problem with Beast and Storm and anyone else REALLY hating Cyclops right now. Fact remains he DID kill Xavier... The man who found, trained, and gave all their lives meaning... If everyone was happy and forgivey after just a couple of weeks... THAT would be crappy storytelling. Going 'Dark' is pretty much the same excuse as Hal Jordan possessed by Parallax... and a LOT of fans didn't like THAT weak excuse... (me I was glad for anything to erase Emerald Twilight and get back to status quo )

Beast SHOULD be mad at Cyclops all the time... What I DOOOOOOOO hate is sweeping Jean's sins under the carpet all while pretending that Scott is the antichrist. Not to mention all the blood on Wolverine's hands... IT's bad... it sucked... he should have known better... but the team DOES have a history of forgiving psycho killers and possessed powerhouses....

[KaleRylan]

I REALLY wonder if Marvel is up on all of it's retcons anymore... Last I heard that wasn't Jean, that was the Phoenix in a Jean Copy... so a lot more is able to be ignored... Jean was always the hero... Changing it to BEING her!??!! That was horrible all around.

Now she actually IS responsible for those deaths... and all the crazy trials and hatred from the aliens have a pretty solid case...

As for Rachael? I remember her only having a 'portion' of PF... so her opinion should be marginalized. However, I've heard that's retconned too...

Bendis has had trouble keeping his OWN continuity straight, not to mention confusing 616 with what he made up for the Ultimate books... I would HAVE to believe Phoenix always Jean is something that slipped through the cracks... because yeah... That's crap to demonize one dark phoenix and glorify the other....

No, it was always Jean. They retconned it to being a copy as a way to resurrect her and get around TPTB having this huge problem with heroes doing bad things. But the retcon was always stupid because it undermines the Dark Phoenix Saga, it undermines Jean as a character, and it's just worse writing than having it be her, so it was slowly forgotten.

It's not that they've ever re-retconned it back to being Jean specifically, it's that they've slowly just stopped mentioning the whole stupid copy idea which was never important except as a way to resurrect Jean before comics got used to JUST RESURRECTING characters and they still felt like they needed a reason. But that's old hat. I'm not sure they've specifically mentioned the copy thing since the early 90s when Jean and others came back to the X-men.

[KaleRylan]

I REALLLY don't have a problem with Beast and Storm and anyone else REALLY hating Cyclops right now. Fact remains he DID kill Xavier... The man who found, trained, and gave all their lives meaning... If everyone was happy and forgivey after just a couple of weeks... THAT would be crappy storytelling. Going 'Dark' is pretty much the same excuse as Hal Jordan possessed by Parallax... and a LOT of fans didn't like THAT weak excuse... (me I was glad for anything to erase Emerald Twilight and get back to status quo )

Beast SHOULD be mad at Cyclops all the time... What I DOOOOOOOO hate is sweeping Jean's sins under the carpet all while pretending that Scott is the antichrist. Not to mention all the blood on Wolverine's hands... IT's bad... it sucked... he should have known better... but the team DOES have a history of forgiving psycho killers and possessed powerhouses....

You're sort of missing the main point while mentioning it just a little. There are two reasons it's stupid to be angry at him:

1. Marvel as a whole, and the X-men specifically, have a long history of mind-controlled heroes doing bad things, up to and including killing other heroes, and then being forgiven for it almost immediately upon their return to normalcy. Wolverine, Jean Grey, Wolverine again, Iron Man, Quicksilver, Hulk, Wolverine some more, and so on and so forth. This happens. A LOT. So suddenly deciding that THIS TIME, with THIS GUY, being brainwashed by a god isn't acceptable, is complete hypocrisy.

2. Being brainwashed is actually a VERY GOOD REASON to say it's not your fault. Even in real life, if you can prove you were not in your right mind, or you were being coerced or controlled into doing something by another, then you can be taken sort of off the hook (it's complicated). Jean was mind-raped and driven crazy. Scott was under the influence of a god and was attacked repeatedly both mentally and physically. Really, he should be forgiven by the standards of the MU. He isn't because editorial has a story to tell, not because it makes any sense with the way the MU has ever worked.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Beast SHOULD be mad at Cyclops all the time... What I DOOOOOOOO hate is sweeping Jean's sins under the carpet all while pretending that Scott is the antichrist. Not to mention all the blood on Wolverine's hands... IT's bad... it sucked... he should have known better... but the team DOES have a history of forgiving psycho killers and possessed powerhouses....

Iceman also recently tried to destroy the world. The JGS staff was all "Zomg, poor puppy! He totally needs more hugs!"

The whole ordeal was so embarrassing for everyone involved that Cyclops can't even bring himself to mention it while defending his case.

So suddenly deciding that THIS TIME, with THIS GUY, being brainwashed by a god isn't acceptable, is complete hypocrisy.

It totally is. But Cyclops did have sex with Jean Grey and he constantly makes tough guys question their sexuality. Without even trying, to boot. This collective freakout is just about the funniest thing ever.

[xiyon]

Iceman also recently tried to destroy the world. The JGS staff was all "Zomg, poor puppy! He totally needs more hugs!"

The whole ordeal was so embarrassing for everyone involved that Cyclops can't even bring himself to mention it while defending his case.

I stopped reading Amazing back when it was still written by Aaron ('cause not even my admiration for Kurt could make me want to read Aaron's writing); how was Colossus' return received? I mean, sure, he didn't really do anything EVIL in AvX, but he was a Phoenix host too, so was he given the "aww, poor puppy" hug or...?

[phantom1592]

No, it was always Jean. They retconned it to being a copy as a way to resurrect her and get around TPTB having this huge problem with heroes doing bad things. But the retcon was always stupid because it undermines the Dark Phoenix Saga, it undermines Jean as a character, and it's just worse writing than having it be her, so it was slowly forgotten.

It's not that they've ever re-retconned it back to being Jean specifically, it's that they've slowly just stopped mentioning the whole stupid copy idea which was never important except as a way to resurrect Jean before comics got used to JUST RESURRECTING characters and they still felt like they needed a reason. But that's old hat. I'm not sure they've specifically mentioned the copy thing since the early 90s when Jean and others came back to the X-men.

Ahhhhh I miss the old days where they actually put thought into a good resurrection. Now days people seem to come back with the grand process of 'Oh... I didn't remember he was dead?!?' as the reasoning...

Someone on a different thread went ON and ON and ON about the retcon and how they erased the copy and it was always her and canon and what not... I missed a big chunk around the late 90's-200's soooo I lost track on what was and wasn't actually showing up on page anymore... Only that the established Lore of the Early 90's was no longer relevant...


Personally, I enjoyed the copy a LOT... and it REALLY gave Jean depth. Arguably more then anything else in her history (besides DPS). She woke up, found out all the horrible things that were done... her powers had been drained (took FOREVER to regain the telepathy, she spent most of X-factor just as telekinetic). She found out that some THING had taken her form, and none of her friends or boyfriend could tell the difference... then Scott was married when she got back.... She was essentially replaced TWICE when her last memory was saving everyone in the crash....

Really great stuff there. The old X-factor series is VASTLY underestimated. Got a little crappy by the end before BLue/Gold... but most of that was the 80/90's insistence on massive X-crossovers... with a couple of bad stories crammed in between...

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I stopped reading Amazing back when it was still written by Aaron ('cause not even my admiration for Kurt could make me want to read Aaron's writing); how was Colossus' return received? I mean, sure, he didn't really do anything EVIL in AvX, but he was a Phoenix host too, so was he given the "aww, poor puppy" hug or...?

Haven't kept up with Amazing either. From what little I've read, the JGS staff essentially welcomed him back with open arms and then proceeded to ignore him as usual. He's had a moment with Nightcrawler, but I haven't heard much else.

The rrrhatred is clearly Cyclops-focused. Sooo awesome.

[phantom1592]

You're sort of missing the main point while mentioning it just a little. There are two reasons it's stupid to be angry at him:

1. Marvel as a whole, and the X-men specifically, have a long history of mind-controlled heroes doing bad things, up to and including killing other heroes, and then being forgiven for it almost immediately upon their return to normalcy. Wolverine, Jean Grey, Wolverine again, Iron Man, Quicksilver, Hulk, Wolverine some more, and so on and so forth. This happens. A LOT. So suddenly deciding that THIS TIME, with THIS GUY, being brainwashed by a god isn't acceptable, is complete hypocrisy.

2. Being brainwashed is actually a VERY GOOD REASON to say it's not your fault. Even in real life, if you can prove you were not in your right mind, or you were being coerced or controlled into doing something by another, then you can be taken sort of off the hook (it's complicated). Jean was mind-raped and driven crazy. Scott was under the influence of a god and was attacked repeatedly both mentally and physically. Really, he should be forgiven by the standards of the MU. He isn't because editorial has a story to tell, not because it makes any sense with the way the MU has ever worked.

I think a BIG part of it... was the way Cyclops WANTED the Phoenix around. He had a LOT of people telling him that Phoenix was dangerous... he knew how dangerous it COULD be... he knew what the risks would be if it got out of control.... and still wouldn't listen to people who did NOT want it around...

He may not have WANTED to be possessed by it, but he WAS playing with fire... and Xavier paid the price. There's a lot of blame to go around for his death... But this possession was a bit different then the normal 'lost control' storylines.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

But this possession was a bit different then the normal 'lost control' storylines.

Of course it was different. Cyclops was right.

Sure, he might not have been 100% right, but he was less wrong than everyone else put together. It's no coincidence than approximately 100% of the current Cyclops on-panel haterz think they're smarter than him. The brain-damaged mutt pulling one on the collective like that? I can see why folks would get bitter about it.

[anthony_lynch15]

He doesn't want them together because
" I know I’m going to take my lumps for this but I can’t imagine anything less interesting then getting these 2 back together
I thought the relationship brought out the worst in them. it made me like them less. consider that chapter closed until I am unceremoniously fired"
http://brianmichaelbendis.tumblr.com...d-emma-back-up

Wow, while I can see how a good storyline with them apart could be interesting I definitely cannot agree with his statement that their relationship brought out the worst in them.
But I suppose he can't really say "I just didn't like them together. Jean & Scott 4eva!" LOL.

I will be the first to admit I don't read a ton of Avengers stuff (though I do read some, so I'm not totally uninformed) but as far as I've seen, Cap is never really shown having strategies or using tactics. His plans tend to revolve around the use of overwhelming force of one form or another and that's about it. Whether it's calling Thor (or Hulk nowadays) or saying Avengers Assemble and charging the enemy, or just summoning the whole MU to dogpile the bad guy, Cap just seems like a guy that people follow because he's "inspirational" for some reason.

The entire way through Infinity event I was thinking this.
They put Cap in charge and keep commenting on his great tactical thinking.....but he didn't actually do anything. LOL

He does seem to inspire unconditional trust though.
Remember in recent Avengers issues when he asked Hawkeye, Thor and a few others to come with him and just attack Iron Man.
And they just did it!

Cyclops is one of the few Marvel leaders I can think of that is regularly shown using actual battle tactics with ambushes, covert ops, air support, and so on and so forth. Because he's never been about being inspirational, they've always had to make up for that by establishing that he's good at what he does and he gets results, so people follow him.

So while Cap has the whole near perfect track record and all that, I think it's an unfair comparison. Cap just acts like a action movie character and wins because that's sort of what the Avengers are, whereas Cyclops acts like a tactician and yet regularly fails or has to deal with all kinds of problems (internal and external) because the X-men are about tragedy and failure and perseverance, whereas the Avengers are about success/saving the world through the sheer force of their combined heroism.

Great comparison of Cyclops and Cap.

[xiyon]

I think a BIG part of it... was the way Cyclops WANTED the Phoenix around. He had a LOT of people telling him that Phoenix was dangerous... he knew how dangerous it COULD be... he knew what the risks would be if it got out of control.... and still wouldn't listen to people who did NOT want it around...

He may not have WANTED to be possessed by it, but he WAS playing with fire... and Xavier paid the price. There's a lot of blame to go around for his death... But this possession was a bit different then the normal 'lost control' storylines.

Actually...
1) Cyke didn't call the Phoenix. Wanda did. Cyke had no say on whether the Phoenix was coming or not. He just knew from experience that attacking the Phoenix does not work; might as well just prepare the host for the upcoming struggle.
2) Cyke was shown the end-result of a world where Hope didn't get the Phoenix. It wasn't pretty.
3) Cyke may not have wanted the Phoenix, but he made the best out of a bad situation and was attacked for it. See: World Peace and the Avenger's response.
4) Cyke was literally fighting a battle on two fronts: keeping Emma from burning the world and trying to control the Phoenix. He actually pleaded with the Avengers/mutants to stop before he lost control. They didn't.
5) Cyke owned up to killing Xavier despite being possessed during the incident. He was then thrown into murder-muties camp.

As for the Phoenix Force itself...
5) How many times has the Phoenix Force appeared on Earth?
6) How many times has the Phoenix Force burned Earth?
7) How many times did the X-Men fight the Phoenix only to end up letting it do its thing? I mean, really, the X-Men never won against the Phoenix unless you count Rachel actually taming it.

Really, the Phoenix Force, especially being sentient, is just like a mutant. It was born with a lot of power, it gets attacked for existing, and hardly anybody tries to reason with it.

Now, I don't mind everyone hating on Cyke for killing Xavier-- a man that was very influential to their lives. I just don't like how it's being written. It's as if the JGS didn't make their fair share of mistakes in that situation. It's as if they truly believe Cyke wanted Xavier dead instead of, y'know, being possessed.

[anthony_lynch15]

LOL


By FoxxFireArt

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Watching "Real Men" freaking out around Cyclops never gets old. You'd think the MU would've heard of American Beauty by now. Oh well.

[LittlePriest]

People keep harping that Scott somehow rang the Phoenix bell to summon it somehow.

It's as if Scott knew the sun was going to come up tomorrow, and didn't attack the star with the Avengers because that's super dumb. Since he got that nice tan he always wanted it's his fault that someone else got a sunburn.

Then all the fans line up to accuse him of causing the sunrise.