Can attractive people struggle to get dates?

[ScottSummers]

Above everything else too, I'm basically a skeptic. Threads like this remind me of this internet video with a bunny singing "everyone else gets more sex than me". Very subtly brilliant. On the flip side I think many feel attractive folks "get more" simply because the neighbors always seem more interesting. I've lived with a few self-professed Don Juan's, and while they did get laid, they'd always report these lofty figures. Then when I'd go back and think about it I'd realize the time we lived together I never saw any evidence of that many girls being in the house/apartment. Or they'd tell variations of the same three stories over and over again, but swear there'd been like a 100 girls, of which they seem to have forgotten 90+. People have a tendency to frame their own sex lives very negatively in comparison to others in their own minds I think, but tend to exaggerate in reality. They especially are fascinated by celebrities. Yet even the celebrities I've met were all nice, normal, married, and frequently monogamous types. Even Johnny Depp has some interview where he's laughing about all these rumors people spread about his sex life and how it's honestly not that interesting. I think in effect the fantasy of one group having a power over women is just that, a fantasy. In my life at least I've found I have little control over who wants to and eventually sleeps with me.

Also I think people confuse a woman hanging around a guy because he's attractive, or being drawn to the attractiveness and wanting to sleep with that person. Many women keep attractive guys in tow for the appearance, often because they like playing games and showing that those guys will follow them. I sort of joke about these Facebook photos I see on Monday of the Saturday night crowd. A guy will post a photo with six attractive ladies. What is he with all six? Then I'll look at the girls profile. Boyfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend. All will have boyfriends, strangely none of them him. And I'll also bet his AMEX card has all their drink orders on it. HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

[Shawn Hopkins]

Here's video of Brad Pitt acting deep and humble and talking about how he doesn't want to be a teenage hearthrob in 1990, before he was even noticed. He's also giving the interviewer a hard time, actively rejecting stardom even before he has it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mSuRdT8Hw

[ScottSummers]

Here's video of Brad Pitt acting deep and humble and talking about how he doesn't want to be a teenage hearthrob in 1990, before he was even noticed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mSuRdT8Hw

Maybe...and yet Justin Bieber probably gets lots of girls. And don't tell me that's cause he's "humble" and "not narcissistic".

[Shawn Hopkins]

Maybe...and yet Justin Bieber probably gets lots of girls. And don't tell me that's cause he's "humble" and "not narcissistic".

Yeah, but except for Bieber's insane lust-blind pre-teen fans people hate Bieber for that very narcissism. As an adult he'll be a washed up D-List trainwreck. Brad Pitt is basically King of America, everyone loves him and thinks he's a great humanitarian. Because whomever Brad Pitt really is, he knows how to manage his image.

[coveredinbees]

Best wishes in your romantic endeavors, DS1!

[ScottSummers]

Yeah, but except for Bieber's insane lust-blind pre-teen fans people hate Bieber for that very narcissism. As an adult he'll be a washed up D-List trainwreck.

Not to derail the discussion, but this is speculative at best, perhaps naïve at worst. I've seen too many pop stars start off as narcissistic d-bags with bad-boy reps go on to become icons. If anything he's following the trend. And he is talented. He can play an a**load of instruments and sing, and he could do it at like age 10. That's pretty spectacular. And if anything is true in life; it's what you can do, not who you are.

Brad Pitt is basically King of America, everyone loves him and thinks he's a great humanitarian. Because whomever Brad Pitt really is, he knows how to manage his image.

This was definitely not always the case. Throughout his early career he was dismissed by the same group of "older folk" that would probably dismiss other young celebs today. And it was precisely because people kept saying he was a pretty face. Plus most of his classic movies like Fight Club and Se7en appealed to his younger fans. Not like he got any Oscars for those. Sure, he's respected now, but he's also fifty and looks it.

And to me knowing or even admitting you are attractive is not a bad thing, it's holding others to the same standards that is bad. There's nothing wrong with holding out for someone who is attractive, but there is a problem with dismissing attention of those "beneath" you. That's bad. If you look like Brad Pitt (or whomever) and are not humble about it, you don't have to be, you look like Brad Pitt. Own that sh**. But if you're using that as an excuse to demean others, that's when it's bad.

[RLAAMJR.]

Nice discussion guys. I don't however see ScottSummers in the Cyclops Appreciation Thread.

[ScottSummers]

Nice discussion guys. I don't however see ScottSummers in the Cyclops Appreciation Thread.

I was looking through it earlier lol.

[Shawn Hopkins]

Not to derail the discussion, but this is speculative at best, perhaps naïve at worst. I've seen too many pop stars start off as narcissistic d-bags with bad-boy reps go on to become icons. If anything he's following the trend. And he is talented. He can play an a**load of instruments and sing, and he could do it at like age 10. That's pretty spectacular. And if anything is true in life; it's what you can do, not who you are.

This was definitely not always the case. Throughout his early career he was dismissed by the same group of "older folk" that would probably dismiss other young celebs today. And it was precisely because people kept saying he was a pretty face. Plus most of his classic movies like Fight Club and Se7en appealed to his younger fans. Not like he got any Oscars for those. Sure, he's respected now, but he's also fifty and looks it.

And to me knowing or even admitting you are attractive is not a bad thing, it's holding others to the same standards that is bad. There's nothing wrong with holding out for someone who is attractive, but there is a problem with dismissing attention of those "beneath" you. That's bad. If you look like Brad Pitt (or whomever) and are not humble about it, you don't have to be, you look like Brad Pitt. Own that sh**. But if you're using that as an excuse to demean others, that's when it's bad.

I do agree that judging other people as lesser because of looks is the worst.

[ScottSummers]

I do agree that judging other people as lesser because of looks is the worst.

Also, outside of meat market bars I don't know too many places where looks are the deal-breaker. And even then I think that's sort of an illusion. They sell the promise of sex, but don't really deliver. Honestly it's probably easier picking up trim in a book store.

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

Above everything else too, I'm basically a skeptic. Threads like this remind me of this internet video with a bunny singing "everyone else gets more sex than me". Very subtly brilliant. On the flip side I think many feel attractive folks "get more" simply because the neighbors always seem more interesting. I've lived with a few self-professed Don Juan's, and while they did get laid, they'd always report these lofty figures. Then when I'd go back and think about it I'd realize the time we lived together I never saw any evidence of that many girls being in the house/apartment. Or they'd tell variations of the same three stories over and over again, but swear there'd been like a 100 girls, of which they seem to have forgotten 90+. People have a tendency to frame their own sex lives very negatively in comparison to others in their own minds I think, but tend to exaggerate in reality. They especially are fascinated by celebrities. Yet even the celebrities I've met were all nice, normal, married, and frequently monogamous types. Even Johnny Depp has some interview where he's laughing about all these rumors people spread about his sex life and how it's honestly not that interesting. I think in effect the fantasy of one group having a power over women is just that, a fantasy. In my life at least I've found I have little control over who wants to and eventually sleeps with me.

Also I think people confuse a woman hanging around a guy because he's attractive, or being drawn to the attractiveness and wanting to sleep with that person. Many women keep attractive guys in tow for the appearance, often because they like playing games and showing that those guys will follow them. I sort of joke about these Facebook photos I see on Monday of the Saturday night crowd. A guy will post a photo with six attractive ladies. What is he with all six? Then I'll look at the girls profile. Boyfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend. All will have boyfriends, strangely none of them him. And I'll also bet his AMEX card has all their drink orders on it. HMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

Don Juans don't brag, they ....

Women can talk among themselves, no reason for the guys to bragg to raise their stock.

[ScottSummers]

Don Juans don't brag, they ....

Women can talk among themselves, no reason for the guys to bragg to raise their stock.

Well I agree there. If you have to say it yourself, it probably isn't happening.

[Mari]

Anyone, attractive or ugly, can struggle to get dates. There are so many factors to consider, including appearance.

[DS1]

People here were rather quick to reduce me to stereotypes based on what little I said about myself. Heh.

But anyway, I wasn't asking for advice on how to land a date. I just wanted to know if indeed my appearance had something to do with me struggling to get one. But even if that's the case, no way would I change my appearance for anyone else's sake but mine. I'm way too proud of it.

Yes, I know how contradictory I can sound. Proud of my looks, yet having a hard time taking the first steps. Maybe I have this pointless fear of rejection anyway, even though I logically shouldn't. I'm not sure what to tell a girl beyond "hi", but at the same time, I admit to hating this societal expectation of guys always making the first move. Because it somehow insinuates that I'm not good enough, that I have to prove I'm good to someone who's not expected to be good themselves but who gets to judge my worth anyway.

If anyone thinks what I just said was sexist, don't worry. Neither gender is better nor worse than the other, behaviorally speaking. It's society that insists on raising both genders to act differently from one another, and this whole thing about guys making the first move, unintentionally gave women a certain power, which is not having to do much work to get a guy interested in them. It's easy to act confident, when you're not expected to make the first move in a relationship. But I refuse to play those games. If a gal couldn't make the first move herself, why should I go to all that trouble for her?

Making the first move myself feels like I'm fulfilling a stupid societal expectation. Like I'm doing what guys are "supposed to do". I hate that. I know some people won't believe that me not making the first move is anything but shyness on my part, but believe me, it is also because I resent those expectations. I can't stand the macho man's girl.

I want to be chased. I want a girl who offers me a ride in a nice luxury car. I know what some would ask, what makes me so deserving, but hey, that question goes both ways: what has a girl, who expects a man to make the first move, done to deserve it?

[t hedge coke]

Why assume women are under no pressure to be liked or prove themselves of value in a situation? Why assume women are playing games with you? Why assume women, individually or as a whole, desire it that you pursue them or buy them off?

How do you meet and befriend men? Women aren't appreciably different. It shouldn't be about deserving or proving anything, but about getting to know someone or spending time with them. No one is suggesting you're not good enough, there really isn't a hierarchy in meeting people socially, the way there may be in terms of work situations.

People aren't puzzles or traps to be outsmarted or beaten. No one is owed attention or loyalty (or sex). There's no system to buck.