Man of Steel occurs Post-Doomsday Clock

[Yoda]

TO CLARIFY THIS IS A THEORY - NOT SPOILERS

I think it is increasingly likely that the events of Man of Steel occur in a post-Doomsday Clock DCU. If true this will likely clear up Jor El’s appearance and characterization, Lois & Clark's willingness to trust Jor El, Lois’ status at the Daily Planet, and the appearance of the CSA in Bendis’s run.

I've thrown out parts of this theory in a few threads , but thought it would be interesting to collect the evidence for and against it in one place. If this needs to be moved into the Doomsday Clock thread or the Bendis Both Books thread, that's fine.

Creator Statements

Geoff Johns stated at the inception of Doomsday Clock that it would be occurring one year in the DCU’s future and by the close of the miniseries it the timeline would synch up with the ongoing titles. These statements were made when it was expected that the book would conclude in December 2018. Since the book moved to a bi-monthly schedule, that timeline appears to hold, with the newspapers in Doomsday Clock #8 being dated June 6, 2019. Essentially 7 months in the DCU’s future.
Bendis however, did not come aboard DC until October 2017. So while he likely was aware of Doomsday Clock’s setting and the constraints that it set on his storytelling, he also has been given an apparently free hand editorially to tell the stories he wants.

Moreover, Bendis apparently knows the outcome of Doomsday Clock as he stated specifically in the July 2018 Word Balloon podcast that he is being very careful not to spoil what Geoff Johns is doing in Doomsday Clock. Moreover, he stated in this interview that once Doomsday Clock concludes, characters or events in his storyline will “click” for the readers. He would not state which characters he was talking about, but when asked about Jor El he immediately changed the subject.
This is probably the most significant indication we have that Bendis’s storylines have the potential to be set post-Doomsday Clock. If they were sent in the build up to Doomsday Clock, there is little or nothing Bendis would have to worry about spoiling. However, if Bendis was given the ok to use certain elements of the post-Doomsday Clock DCU, on the condition that they are left ambiguous enough to not directly indicate a connection, he would have something to be careful about.

The Shorts

It’s implied (though not directly shown) that Superman starts wearing his pre-Rebirth costume complete with shorts in Man of Steel #6. Superman as portrayed in Doomsday Clock is also wearing the classic version of the costume complete with the shorts (absent the appearance of the Reborn costume on the DC #1 variant). This is cited as evidence that Doomsday Clock takes place one year (or six months at this point) in Man of Steel’s future.

However, the shorts were seen in the in-continuity Superman Special. This special takes place after the Kents return to Metropolis, in Superman #43. It stars a young Jon in his original costume, which he grows out of in Man of Steel #1. This essentially negates any value of the costume change as an indicator of chronology.

We've also seen various costume incongruity throughout Doomsday Clock. Riddler is in a costume reminiscent of Batman '66. Batman's costume is one we haven't seen in any comic to date. So its possible that we can discount any significance of the costuming.

Jor El

Jor El’s role in Man of Steel and the ongoing Superman titles is the strongest indicator that they occur post-Doomsday Clock. Jor El’s disappearance in The Oz Effect was at the hands of Dr. Manhattan. Though Manhattan’s mind control had been broken, he nevertheless kidnapped Jor El. As far as Clark, Lois, and Jon know Jor El is missing. Yet Jor El’s reappearance in the Kent apartment in Man of Steel is treated as an inconvenience as opposed to a shocking return. Clark admonishes him for appearing suddenly, but there is no indication that he was surprised he was still alive or free from Manhattan. Moreover, Jor El reappears with his own starship and apparently the freedom to move about the galaxy at will. This is wholly inconsistent with his pre-Doomsday Clock appearances and not explained at all.

This likely is what Bendis is referring to when he says "characters" in his story will make more sense to the readers once Doomsday Clock concludes. It is also likely that Bendis would have the pull at DC to use Jor El in a vague capacity that would be confusing to readers, but not outright spoil Doomsday Clock. We know there are certain drop dead dates for the use of the JSA and the Legion in other books to give Doomsday Clock room to conclude, but not completely tie the hands of other creators.

Lois Lane

Lois in Doomsday Clock and Heroes in Crisis is working at the Daily Planet. There is no indication or hint that she has just returned or spent any time away. Lois & Clark are also seen in bed together in Doomsday Clock #1. Lois also makes an offhand reference to Jon, though Jon has thus far not been seen in Doomsday Clock.

Now, it’s expected that Lois will ultimately return to the Daily Planet, possibly as soon as the next arc in Action Comics where she will be working with Clark & Jimmy on the Leviathan story. And we know from Bendis’s statements that he has no intention of breaking Lois & Clark up “on any conceivable level” and is just exploring a less traditional take on marriage that seems designed to restore Lois's independence as an investigative reporter or writer. So her presence at the Daily Planet and status quo relationship with Clark is not necessarily indicative of timing of the story.

It's also clear that Perry didn't really fire her from the Daily Planet in Man of Steel. One, her office is still intact and the only person he's offered it to is Clark. Two, her profile is still shown on the Daily Planet homepage Lois is looking at in Action Comics 1004. Moreover, she's referred to in that headline as the Daily Planet's star reporter.

The Crime Syndicate of America

We know that the cover of Superman #9, with a street date of March 2019 features Jor El and Jon surrounded by the CSA. In the present Rebirth continuity, the CSA should all be dead. We saw most members die in the Forever Evil storyline and Owlman was killed by Dr. Manhattan in Justice League 50. So their existence in Superman could indicate that the events of Doomsday Clock reset their place in the timeline.

The Action Comics Desk Pages

There are several items on the Action Comics desk shots that seem to place the story in the “present” of the DCU. However, Bendis has said that these shots contain jokes, true items, and items that are intentionally misleading. Importantly, he stated that fans have in fact latched onto one of the misleading items. I’ll hit on the four or so relevant items to my theory.

The Supermen Theory, Sanctuary, and Batman Wedding post-its from Action 1002. These three all appear to place this desk shot in the present of the DCU. But I think that we see here an example of misdirection, a joke, and a true item. The wedding gift is likely just a joke, with a potshot at Tom King. The Sanctuary note, while seemingly setting it in the pre-HiC time period, could easily be a reference to improvement being made after HiC concludes.

And the Superman Theory post-it could be an intentionally misleading item designed to mask the fact that this storyline is taking place post-Doomsday Clock.

Perry’s Email from Action Comics 1003 – Perry's Black Label Red Tornado pitch email is dated September 2018. This is obviously a joke, but could also be intentionally misleading. It’s the only year we’ve seen referenced in Action Comics and its presence would make one assume it’s from that day. However, there’s a couple of ways this could be designed to throw people off. First, Lois’ computer in Action Comics 1004 shows a date of October 24. No year is indicated. But chronologically, most of the events in Action Comics 1004 take place before the events in Action Comics 1003. So Perry’s email dated September 2018 can’t be a true indication of the present date, because Lois’ computer is dated a month later the events of that issue take place the day before. Also, it’s clear the dates listed are the release dates of the comics themselves, so it could easily be true that unlike the dates of the newspapers in Doomsday Clock, these dates are not meant to be taken literally.

What this means for the possible outcome of Doomsday Clock

This is where I get a little less confident. Because it's possible that with Manhattan's presumed defeat in Doomsday Clock the missing time and elements of the DCU are restored but his prior meddling happened. In that sense, Jor El could be still alive, but the CSA should still be dead. If Manhattan's defeat resets the elements of the timeline like he never meddled at all, Jor El should be dead and the CSA could still be alive.

OK. There's my theory. Tell me how wrong I am!

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I...really think this is grasping at straws, myself. Not as in "you're nuts, this is all nonsense!", if this was announced tomorrow I'd be like "huh" rather than "whaaaaaaat?!", but I really feel like this is snapping up and bending any potential circumstantial evidence at hand to fit a conclusion, in the face of creator statements and in-story elements that are by absolutely all appearances directly to the contrary.

Also, the title for this thread really should have a question mark or a note that it's a theory in it.

[Yoda]

I...really think this is grasping at straws, myself. Not as in "you're nuts, this is all nonsense!", if this was announced tomorrow I'd be like "huh" rather than "whaaaaaaat?!", but I really feel like this is snapping up and bending any potential circumstantial evidence at hand to fit a conclusion, in the face of creator statements and in-story elements that are by absolutely all appearances directly to the contrary.

Also, the title for this thread really should have a question mark or a note that it's a theory in it.

I can't fix the title, but I added a big disclaimer. I had a ? in my draft, but it got deleted at some point.

It is primarily circumstantial, but what in-story elements are directly to the contrary? The shorts, as indicated, were used in-story in the Superman Special which is both in continuity and set before Man of Steel. And the more recent creator statements by Bendis allude to a chance for his story to spoil elements of Doomsday Clock, a worry that makes no sense if chronologically it fell before.

[byrd156]

I came into this thinking you were talking about the movie lol.

[HeroVladimir93]

Well, I guess we'll just have to wait whether or not this is true. I don't know how Doomsday Clock will affect the main Superman titles, but I feel that Bendis' decompressed storytelling is partially influenced by Doomsday Clock's slow pacing.

[Miles To Go]

I don't quite buy the theory now that it's been presented, but part of me wants to. I still have a sinking feeling Doomsday Clock will do something to Lois and Clark, as Manhattan did imply in issue seven or so that Clark would be at his lowest and have noone to back him when the time comes to confront the Doctor in his vision. Bendis can claim HE won't break them up, but the decision may not be up to him and instead lie with Geoff. It would make sense if they're planning a Lois Lane solo book next year as you'd want a big hook for it, just as the Bat-Wedding fallout benefited Catwoman's ongoing, and it would justify the "modern marriage" approach as being a backdoor means of mentally preparing readers for a long-term Lois and Clark split.

[Yoda]

I don't quite buy the theory now that it's been presented, but part of me wants to. I still have a sinking feeling Doomsday Clock will do something to Lois and Clark, as Manhattan did imply in issue seven or so that Clark would be at his lowest and have noone to back him when the time comes to confront the Doctor in his vision. Bendis can claim HE won't break them up, but the decision may not be up to him and instead lie with Geoff. It would make sense if they're planning a Lois Lane solo book next year as you'd want a big hook for it, just as the Bat-Wedding fallout benefited Catwoman's ongoing, and it would justify the "modern marriage" approach as being a backdoor means of mentally preparing readers for a long-term Lois and Clark split.

I don't think that is where Johns is going at all. If Doomsday Clock ends with a hopeless Superman killing Manhattan that would contradict everything Johns has said is the point. What point is there of contrasting a cynical Watchmen viewpoint with the Rebirth hope and strength in connections and relationships theme if you're going to strip Superman of everything and end up with him attacking and destroying Manhattan?

And Bendis has been vague but not misleading, in his statements on the direction he's taking the Superman books. He's actually been a lot more open about his feelings on the marriage than anything else. He wants to show that you can portray a fun, crazy, but romantic committed relationship in Lois & Clark and has said explicitly both in interviews and through Lois herself that they are not breaking up on any conceivable level. I think his goal is to get back to telling stories about Lois as the best version of Lois (Greg Rucka's version as he's also explicitly said) this likely means independant storylines that dovetail into ongoing Superman stories directly or thematically. So I do think we're done with the domestic goddess version of Lois from Tomasi & Gleason's Superman run, but the version Bendis is interested in writing is more along the triangle era or Rucka's Adventures of Superman era.

He's also said he views the direction he's taking it as a continuation of what he was doing with Luke & Jessica. And he last wrote Jessica Jones in her own book while still married to Luke.

Moreover, Bendis clearly is in the driver's seat with respect to the direction of future Superman stories. Johns no longer has the oversight or the editorial guidance role at DC at all.

[Yoda]

So one more clue (maybe to be taken with a huge grain of salt given its a solicit) but Action Comics 1011 solict seems to reference Sam Lane's untimely demise:

52543501_2022666624521466_8228241738007838720_n.jpg

ACTION COMICS #1011
Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Art and cover by STEVE EPTING variant cover by FRANCIS MANAPUL Leviathan wins. After the destruction of anyone and everyone who could stand in its way, from Lois Lone’s military father, Sam Lone, Co agencies such os Spyral and Checkmate – the newly reorganized and amped-up evil organization stands ready to topple oven the Man of Steel! With a shocking conclusion that’ll affect the entire DC Universe over the summer, don’t miss the epic and unexpected conclusion to ‘Leviathan Rising.’

Sam Lane is alive and still handling metahumans for the US Military in Doomsday Clock. So his "destruction" would have to occur afterwards.

[Miles To Go]

"Destruction" could mean something else too, not necessarily death...unless Waller has a hand in rebuilding everything before the year's out.

[kalai]

As a Marvel reader, I just wanna say that Bendis doesn't really pay attention to continuity that much, so...there's that

[DragonPiece]

As a Marvel reader, I just wanna say that Bendis doesn't really pay attention to continuity that much, so...there's that

Bendis has tweeted and also said in at least one interview he knows Geoff's plans for doomsday clock and they tie into what he is doing.

[Stingo]

Bendis has tweeted and also said in at least one interview he knows Geoff's plans for doomsday clock and they tie into what he is doing.

I wonder if the recent reveal in Action Comics of the original car that the Golden Age Superman can be seen hoisting into the air in the iconic Action Comics issue 1 in someways ties into Doomsday Clock?