Prep-God shtick gone too far?

[CPSparkles]

It went way too far many years ago. In actuality in recent years its kinda wore down a tad for Bruce himself (instances like the Bat-gum debacle notwithstanding). But unfortunately its just taken root elsewhere, like Joker, Damian, and now the Batman Who Laughs.

Rebirth Tim took it to the limit with the batfamily, Doomsday and Jor-el.
Personally I have little problem with BatGod especially on the JL. If it was realistic Bats shouldn't be on that team. But no ones here for realism.
I find Batgod quite entertaining though most times I don't take it seriously. I'm used to Bats and robin going toe to toe with heavies they have no business stepping to.

So long as the plan and tactic doesn't involve too much PIS I'm cool with BatGod.

[Sacred Knight]

I agree that if we were looking for realism Batman wouldn't even be on the team. I don't want that level of realism, for sure. But I would like working things to make better sense within the respective lores. Batman is a man, on a team with metahumans. Work with that in a way that can make some semblance of sense where the necessity for a suspension of disbelief, while still there because its always going to be there, is lessened a bit. Its already been described by others how to come to such an end. The one who genuinely works in the shadows. Comes up the with a game plan behind the scenes, and moves pieces around. And when he has to get on the action he does it with stealth, so as to not get the attention of those beyond his paygrade in regards to hand-to-hand. The character could still have some great individual and heroic moments in that role. Batman just inexplicably being better than everyone at everything, to the point where he can even land meaningful hand on Darkseid for gods sake, to justify his role I don't see as an optimal answer.

They're doing the same thing with the Joker in JL right now. Inexplicably making him better than everyone in the LoD at everything to justify him being there. Not making the effort to make him work within the team in a little more understandable ways. Instead he can just take everyone out any time he wants because he's the Joker.

[LifeIsILL]

Batman, for all his prep-God greatness, has his limits. I'd just like writers to go back to remembering that.

I think you've been overwhelmed by the ridiculous youtube videos and comments worshiping Batman. Most people on youtube have very limited knowledge of Batman and the DC Universe and the regular person just buy into that nonsense.

To me, Batgod isn't really a concern in the comics, for the main universe Batman at least. Now Batman in the cartoons and the animated movies is a different story, they use every chance to prop him up and it makes me believe that they don't know how to write any other character besides Batman.

If you read the 90s JLA comics, besides Tower of Babel and Rock of Ages, Batgod is really nowhere to be found. In most of the stories he doesn't do much of anything, and is filled with some embarrassing moments. He gets mugged by Plastic Man in an alleyway, he gets one-shotted by Wonder Woman and gets his cape stolen. He gets kidnapped by White Martians and needed J'onn to save him. He gives some prep talk to Superman in World War 3, and does nothing besides that. He gets knocked out by Prometheus. He gets frozen by Supergirl, so most of the time he is there to give assistance, but rarely does he take over as portrayed in the movies. Even in New 52 there are many non-Batgod moments, Superman throwing him and knocking him out, Aquaman saving his butt, he gets beat up by some underground midgets, Metallo breaks every bone in his body, Cyborg saving his butt from Parasite, the list goes on and on etc....but the problem is they don't show these parts in the animated movies. I mean, you get to see everyone from Iron Man, to Cap, to Martian Manhunter getting their butts kicked on the screen but not Batman....can't have that happen to him. Why? I have no idea. It's mind-boggling. In fact, seeing him fail makes the character so much more interesting than the constant dose of Batgod.

In the comics you see him fail and just get demolished by stronger opponents all the time, and even more in the pre-crisis Justice League stories, but the movies and the Bruce Timmverse have the average fan's minds completely warped.

[Alan2099]

Couldn't the same thing be said about Luthor, why no complaints about him? All Lex has is his intelligence yet he is always involved in cosmic schemes. Look at him now leading and ordering villains far more powerful than him. Making fools of the JL and dealing with cosmic level power. Yet no one bats an eye.

The difference is that Lex Luthor isn't out there doing his thing every single night. He has time to stop and plan and prep because there's generally a good amount of time between his big schemes. It's how preptime is supposed to work. He has time to actually prep.

As for leading groups of villains, groups of villains actually NEED plans and people with enough charisma to make very different characters with different goals work together. Superheroes by their nature know what they're doing and have the goal goals. A random assortment of heroes together can form a Justice League and be ready to stop evil while a random group of supervillains is likely to tear itself apart.

[Korath]

I agree that if we were looking for realism Batman wouldn't even be on the team. I don't want that level of realism, for sure. But I would like working things to make better sense within the respective lores. Batman is a man, on a team with metahumans. Work with that in a way that can make some semblance of sense where the necessity for a suspension of disbelief, while still there because its always going to be there, is lessened a bit. Its already been described by others how to come to such an end. The one who genuinely works in the shadows. Comes up the with a game plan behind the scenes, and moves pieces around. And when he has to get on the action he does it with stealth, so as to not get the attention of those beyond his paygrade in regards to hand-to-hand. The character could still have some great individual and heroic moments in that role. Batman just inexplicably being better than everyone at everything, to the point where he can even land meaningful hand on Darkseid for gods sake, to justify his role I don't see as an optimal answer.

The problem is that it works for an arc of the JL. But if Batman is either :
-always instrumental to stop the threat thanks to his planning and stealth work, it makes the other JL members noisy decoy for him to steal the show
-if he isn't that important beyond some threat he wouldn't execute anyway, then he becomes useless and basically a token sale figure

I mean, I love the animated movie with Kara arriving on Earth and being kidnapped by Darkseid. But, let's be honest: if Batman really looks badass at first, when you think about it, his whole arc on Apokolypse is dumb.

There is no way that Bruce would detonate the bombs and kill billions, including all the poor slaves in there.

It is also incredibly stupid to antagonize the God of Evil, who can reach Earth whenever he wants and not finish him. Darkseid could have come to Wayne Manor and be done with Batman in seconds.

Furthermore, the last few years have seen the Parademons and the New Gods being made incredibly weak (case in point : Tomasi's arc where Lois single-handedly kicked Furies' asses and killed Parademons in droves). Which means that making Batman appear meaningful in the JL setting will be just as hard to sell if he isn't at the frontline. Perhaps even more, since they introduced the Hellbat suit, which has an important enough drawback to make its uses a double-edged sword.

[oasis1313]

I hate Bat-God whenever he's around because then he treats his family even crappier than usual.

[Jim Kelly]

As long as Batman is on the Justice League there is a reason for Batgod. The root of problem is that Batman classic form is to be street level hero so he nevers keeps any upgrades,anytime he gets a upgrade at some point you have to default back to classic batman. If Batman was allowed to develop then he would be something similar to Black Panther. Black Panther has physical attributes which make him a meta, Black Panther has suit which is amazing tech but not so high tech that he is mecha. Reality that is what Batman should be instead they go with just mortal man and also always revert Batman costumes to suits that can be damage by his classic rogue gallery Twoface, Penguins, Joker, Riddler,etc

The prep god is what keep Batman relevant in stories he doesn't make sense being in , And until some writer final approaches sheer insanity of Batman (and even worse the Bat family) operating in the superhero realm as plain humans and finally get the Batman beyond being just regular humans then the prep god is the best thing. In sports athletes cortisone shots(a steroid) when hurt to continue playing with a injury, I say this because I could see Batman research borderline technique and drugs and adding what is good as part of his regime to becoming Batman, Modern Athletes use hyperbaric chambers, blood platelet surgeries and every single edge they can to be competitive. For me I in vision Batman would be the same way except there is no one to tell him not use HGH or some other drug. For me my head canon is Batman through combination of Asian mysticism/martial arts and modern advance science techniques and drugs combined plus with advance suit tech that Batman is the dreaded "M word" a Metahuman. For me stories with Dark Gods of multiverse and super aliens have advanced past the point of going with "he is relatable and awesome because he just a human". For me I don't mind Batman being a singularly minded focus and filthy rich person who use nearly any means at his disposal to be in his physical peak.

If you don't want Batman as Midnighter or Black Panther which I understand why people don't want this then you just have deal with Batgod moments

Yes, to the first part. This is how I read Batman in the old days. When he was in his own books, he was usually someone who could be defeated by superior numbers or a clever scheme. He'd have to regroup and think up a way to overcome a more powerful foe, but most of his rogues were normal level villains. When Batman was in the JLA or in team-ups (depending on who he was teamed with), then I just accepted that the rules were different and sometimes Batman had to be more powerful. But even in these comics, the heroes took turns. It wasn't Batman who always found the way to defeat the foe or the menace--often he'd get captured or injured and it would be the other heroes who had to save the day.

A Batman who is too powerful and is always the star of any book he's in is just not that interesting. Heroes are more interesting when they're defeated and they have to find a way back from failure. And Batman is better as a detective but an imperfect human being. He shouldn't overshadow all the other DC heroes. If people are only reading a comic because Batman is in it and he's the only one who is worth reading about, then they have no reason to become interested in the other heroes in those books. Batman needs to take the back seat sometimes, so the other DC heroes can show off what they can do.

[Shriveling_memo]

Is it God prep time or the other heroes in the justice league underestimating batman? No human competes at his level except say deathstroke, who has taken the justice league.

The other heroes rarely if ever face threats where they have to use there mind the way batman does.

Batman is the baby of the justice league, they look out for him, they dont take him seriously. An that is one of his assets in a group like that. He can go unseen.

What should be done more often is when hes with the justice league, he uses an advance suit. Not iron man level, but something to keep up with the others.

Also on batman all round abilities, it's fine him being the pinnacle of human beings, just not when hes with the justice league.

If he wore a high tech suit, I dont think he would bring done other heroes as much. As elevate batman to the degree hes been put on, has destroyed superman for years.

[Ascended]

Is it God prep time or the other heroes in the justice league underestimating batman?

It's definitely prep god time.

Bruce is often written as leading the League, even if he's not the actual chairman. He comes up with the plans and everyone listens. He comes up with the battle strategy and everyone listens. He gives the orders in the field, and everyone listens. He provides the answers no one else has, and everyone listens.

Even recently, with J'onn sitting as League chairman and Diana serving as his second, who was the person they had protecting and taking care of the Totality (which is the ultimate dues ex machina thus far in Snyder's run)? Who stayed in the Hall overseeing everything until the last minute? Batman. Even though he had all these broken bones and the Hall was literally underwater, the League trusted Batman with those jobs.

No one in the League underestimates Bruce. In fact, damn near every single one of them has talked about how dangerous Batman can be. These are people who can travel time on their own, fly through black holes, fight gods barehanded, and they consider Bruce an equal and most are at least a little afraid of him. He's not underestimated at all.

[Jim Kelly]

Pre-COIE, the prep time god should have been Superman. I think he was only ever stopped by plot induced stupidity. But in the comics you saw that he had a lot of contingency plans, he was super-intelligent, he had hundreds of allies that would swoop in to help, he had robots, he had a massive fortress that collected all the knowledge of the universe, he could travel beyond the speed of light and through time. So he should have been impossible to defeat and could easily have defeated anyone else.

One of my favourite Superman feats was in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 63 (from 1968), when the Key mentally prevented any of the JLAers from leaving their Secret Sanctuary--rather than trying to leave like the others, Superman simply traded places in time with himself from a few years earlier by running around at super-speed. As that time-displaced Superman was under no mental compulsion to remain in the Secret Sanctuary, he just defeated all his fellow JLAers and dragged them out against their will. Gardner Fox must have seen Luis Buñuel's THE EXTERMINATING ANGEL (1962) before writing this tale.

[Killerbee911]

A Batman who is too powerful and is always the star of any book he's in is just not that interesting.

If he wore a high tech suit, I dont think he would bring done other heroes as much. As elevate batman to the degree hes been put on, has destroyed superman for years.

I haven't read(seen) Batman in a high tech suit where(few times when it happens) that it hurts the character. Every time it is done feels like the natural progression of the character. The biggest issue is his rogue gallery most of the notable villains are not meta and a upgrade Batman moves to place where the Jokers,Two faces,Penguins and Riddlers are no threat whatsoever. And that is why Batman will never upgrade and I am fine that I get the reasoning of the company. But logically Batwing and Azrael have upgrade tech style suits and in universe you can't think of logical reason that tech isn't Batman's bare minimum. DC is serving wants majority of the fan base as they should but Batman not wearing better equipment is purely that he remains a certain style of hero.

[Yohei72]

Can't speak for others, but I am perfectly willing to sacrifice an inch of reality for an ell of story. It's not like this constructed universe makes a lot of sense in the first place.

Amen to this. If I'm going to start picking at the plausibility of the Bat-mythos, the whole thing falls apart pretty quickly.

Of course, everyone has their different limits when it comes to plausibility questions, and these largely come down to personal taste.

I do like the phrase "Prep-God" - that's a new one on me. My favorite Batman-as-Prep-God moment comes from Morrison, as one can tell from my avatar picture. Does it make sense? Not much, but it makes me cackle in delight.

[Jim Kelly]

I don't like Batman using impenetrable armour on a permanent basis, because it takes away from the sense of danger. Logically, I suppose Wayne Tech can create a suit that gives Batman invulnerablilty, but logic is a slippery slope in comics. If Bruce has all this tech, he should just establish his own police force to run Gotham, all provided with Wayne Tech suits and equipment. But that's not the fun of Batman. The fun is seeing an ordinary guy risk his life, always in danger of being hit by stray bullets or falling from a great height, as he goes up against clever rogues and superior numbers of musclemen. For that to happen, the criminal element likewise can't become too hyped up, because the suspension of disbelief begins to break down. There's no way an ordinary guy can fight off an army of metahumans. So for Batman to remain his old self, the solo stories have to stick with the ground level villains.

[LifeIsILL]

One of my favourite Superman feats was in JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA 63 (from 1968), when the Key mentally prevented any of the JLAers from leaving their Secret Sanctuary--rather than trying to leave like the others, Superman simply traded places in time with himself from a few years earlier by running around at super-speed. As that time-displaced Superman was under no mental compulsion to remain in the Secret Sanctuary, he just defeated all his fellow JLAers and dragged them out against their will. Gardner Fox must have seen Luis Buñuel's THE EXTERMINATING ANGEL (1962) before writing this tale.

One of my favorites was Justice League of America #13 I believe, where Dr. Light finds out all the weaknesses of the JLA members (40 years before Batman) and sends them to different dimensions that attacks their weakness. Superman's plan was pretty awesome and unexpected, he switches costumes with Batman at the last minute so that he would be sent to Batman's dimension instead. One of my favorite JLA stories.

[nonsense man]

I do not mind if bruce uses power armor for JL missions or even have robots to help him patrol gotham superman does so why not batman. Also bruce could use the villians natural distrust of each other to disrupt their take over the world schemes. It makes sense if he shows he has that type of tech for JL missions and prepare battle plans against threats from aliens demons villians and his own allies then that is to be expected. Will they get the knock on him if the powers of his enemies can overpower him at times or some genius villian like lex kept his plans so quiet it surprised him for a bit yeah that happens. But it should show bruce is probably the most adaptible hero out there and he might with the others providing the power overturn their enemies plans. Well that is how it should be shown how it goes.