If You Love the Wonder Rogues, It's Time to Take Action

[Dr. Poison]

I posted part of this in another threat but after thinking about it more it merit's it's own.

One again, we're in a phase where DC's main Wonder Woman writers(WW, JL, JLDark) seem to be more interested in developing her adversaries from public domain(Hecate, Circe, Ares, Poseidon, etc.) instead of her original rogues. Both Hecate and Circe have appeared in JLDark but no sign of the Queen of Fables, Dark Angle, or the White Magician. Granted Cheetah is in the Legion of Doom in Synder's book but out of the entire group of villains, her portrayal has been the least impressive(not bad, just limited). Wilson seems to be pouring her heart and soul into Ares and Aphrodite for starters. I know that Veronica Cale is supposed to appear in Wilson's run but it sounds like she'll be a vessel for another Olympian(Nemesis). After Azzarello's 3 solid years of all Olympians all of the time, I get nauseous whenever I hear another writer is going to use one of them or another threat from public domain. Where is the development for Giganta, Dr. Poison, Queen Clea, Dr. Psycho, Baron Blitzkreig, Zara, Eviless, Kung, The Mask, or Gundra?

How many other DC heroes are stuck fighting adversaries from public domain gegularly? None that I know of. This writing behavior for Wonder Woman seems lazy and uninspired. I think it's time for those of us who love the Wonder-rogues to be more vocal about it so DC gets the hint that we want to see them used and developed. We can use avenues like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, comic conventions, and most importantly, our wallets to let DC know how we feel.

[Nyssane]

It's too soon to be jumping on Wilson already in my opinion. She's only two issues in and she's already writing a far more interesting Ares than he's been in a decade. We can't write her off based purely on an assumption that she's going to belittle Veronica Cale in favor of more Olympian Gods.

Cheetah under Snyder has been a huge disappointment, especially in the conclusion of the most recent crossover. I had high hopes for her, but they've been pretty much dashed.

[Dr. Poison]

It's too soon to be jumping on Wilson already in my opinion. She's only two issues in and she's already writing a far more interesting Ares than he's been in a decade. We can't write her off based purely on an assumption that she's going to belittle Veronica Cale in favor of more Olympian Gods.

Cheetah under Snyder has been a huge disappointment, especially in the conclusion of the most recent crossover. I had high hopes for her, but they've been pretty much dashed.

Granted, Wilson's run is just beginning but she's starting off with Ares and Aphrodite as antagonists while future solicits reveal that Nemesis is going to be housed in Veronica Cale's body. I just feel as though DC is sending us a message in recent years that only someone with the powers of a god can give Diana a proper challenge even though Superman is regularly troubled by Luthor, Toyman, Metallo, Atomic Skull, Prankster, Livewire, Intergang, and other non-Kryptonian/alien foes. Wonder Woman has plenty of non-godly foes that should be able to present her a credible challenge without a godly upgrade but they get left in limbo while DC regurgitates Ares, Circe, Hecate, Medusa, Hades, and Nemesis. Wonder Woman isn't Thor. She doesn't need a "Loki".

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think Aphrodite is going to be an antagonist, so that pretty much just leaves her stories with two confirmed villains so far: Ares and the mortal Veronica Cale, who is not public domain. And while I definitely echo the desires to see more villains not lifted directly from mythology, the fact is that Ares is too major of a character not to use. Especially when it's kinda necessary to deal with him to also address any changes they want to make in Themyscira's current status quo.

We need to give Wilson more time. We are only two (soon to be three) issues into her first arc, which we've known for a while was going to center on Ares. She wants to combine the myth and the mortal worlds, I doubt that's going to begin and end with Veronica. Diana's mother and people are also public domain Greek myth figures empowered by public domain Greek goddesses to stand against another public domain Greek god. Dealing with the mythological stuff is kinda required.

[Dr. Poison]

Ok, I'm willing to give Wilson more time but what about Tynion? JLDark has focused on both Hecate and Circe(with more to come) but no signs of any of Diana's non-mythological mystical rogues.

[numberthirty]

Ok, I'm willing to give Wilson more time but what about Tynion? JLDark has focused on both Hecate and Circe(with more to come) but no signs of any of Diana's non-mythological mystical rogues.

It's Justice League Dark...

What about that title says "Sure. We Are Going To Get Right Around To Using Those Non-Mythological Rogues?"

[Fuzzy Mittens]

While I appreciate the sentiment, im not sure its warranted. The current writer has said she intends to work in Wonder Womans larger rogues gallery and personally I think its a bit irrational to begin denouncing the book for it and threatening boycott just yet.

Justice League Dark not using the likes of White Magician, Morgana, Dark Angel, or the Dark Commander is dissapointing, but considering the team itself is almost entirely characters with closer ties to Batman than anything else, my expectations are not exactly high.

Which leaves the only other likely user of Wonder rogues being Snyder on Justice League and frankly after seeing what hes done with Cheetah, I don't want to see how he utilize others.

[WonderScott]

I appreciate the sentiment and share it Dr. Poison, and am pleased whenever you bring it up.

I'm in wait-and-see mode with GWW, but I hope her run brings a unique blend of divine adversaries and refocuses on costumed foes and their concepts battling Diana. We've never had a defining Giganta tale or modern saga dedicated to Doctor Psycho to elevate them to the level of Wonder foe and DCU adversary they should be, let alone more focus on Doctor Cyber, Angle Man, Doctor Poison, Queen of Fables, or Queen Clea, or something past a hint of even Zara or Blue Snowman.

And that's not even counting the generally missing exploits and potential of Eviless, Osira, The Mask, Gentleman Killer, Adjudicator, Chang Tzu, Inversion, Superwoman, Hypnota, Anton Unreal, etc.

I've mentioned in other posts about working on my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee and I have to say diving into her villains and their concepts is a complete JOY and treasure trove, once you approach them creatively and contemporarily and weave them into a tapestry of Diana and her supporting characters' world.

And yeah, there's even room for new takes of Mouse Man and Crimson Centipede.

[Dr. Poison]

It's Justice League Dark...

What about that title says "Sure. We Are Going To Get Right Around To Using Those Non-Mythological Rogues?"

Then why the mythological ones? Why can't we have both?

[Dr. Poison]

I appreciate the sentiment and share it Dr. Poison, and am pleased whenever you bring it up.

I'm in wait-and-see mode with GWW, but I hope her run brings a unique blend of divine adversaries and refocuses on costumed foes and their concepts battling Diana. We've never had a defining Giganta tale or modern saga dedicated to Doctor Psycho to elevate them to the level of Wonder foe and DCU adversary they should be, let alone more focus on Doctor Cyber, Angle Man, Doctor Poison, Queen of Fables, or Queen Clea, or something past a hint of even Zara or Blue Snowman.

And that's not even counting the generally missing exploits and potential of Eviless, Osira, The Mask, Gentleman Killer, Adjudicator, Chang Tzu, Inversion, Superwoman, Hypnota, Anton Unreal, etc.

I've mentioned in other posts about working on my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee and I have to say diving into her villains and their concepts is a complete JOY and treasure trove, once you approach them creatively and contemporarily and weave them into a tapestry of Diana and her supporting characters' world.

And yeah, there's even room for new takes of Mouse Man and Crimson Centipede.

I love your spin(no pun intended) on all of this. There so much potential in these rogues to work with yet they keep getting left on the shelf & instead we get another Circe or Ares story.

[kjn]

I'm all for bringing in some of the old villains, but more than that I want good stories, and I view any approach to a character based on a cookie-cutter mentality as misguided. Wonder Woman to me isn't defined by her powers or by her villains, but rather her personality and outlook. Several of my favourite Wonder Woman stories hardly have her using her powers at all.

That said, I do think it'd be worthwhile for Wonder Woman to become more diversified than the mythological corner that Pérez made into her backyard, and most later writers failed to move her out from. But let Wilson be allowed to bring out pieces from Wonder Woman's long backstory because she wants to and connects with those pieces and want to tell a story about them, not because she must use specific pieces. That way lies stagnation and stories told by rote.

I really liked WonderScott's "How to fix" series, because the goal there was to shine a light on and appreciate some of the old wacky elements of her backstory. That to me is feels like a much more fun approach, and potentially more likely to be appreciated by creators.

As for Tynion's Justice League Dark, the old fans of Justice Leage Dark, Shadowpact, and other Vertigo lines have been going gaga over all the old characters that Tynion has included so far. For all that Wonder Woman is at the center of the story, it's fundamentally a story of Wonder Woman in the Vertigo universe.

[WonderScott]

I love your spin(no pun intended) on all of this. There so much potential in these rogues to work with yet they keep getting left on the shelf & instead we get another Circe or Ares story.

There's so much potential in these villains, it really boggles my mind how anyone working on Wonder Woman doesn't see it and get excited about developing them. Diana cannot live on Ares, Circe, and Cheetah stories alone.

[WonderScott]

I'm all for bringing in some of the old villains, but more than that I want good stories, and I view any approach to a character based on a cookie-cutter mentality as misguided. Wonder Woman to me isn't defined by her powers or by her villains, but rather her personality and outlook. Several of my favourite Wonder Woman stories hardly have her using her powers at all.

That said, I do think it'd be worthwhile for Wonder Woman to become more diversified than the mythological corner that Pérez made into her backyard, and most later writers failed to move her out from. But let Wilson be allowed to bring out pieces from Wonder Woman's long backstory because she wants to and connects with those pieces and want to tell a story about them, not because she must use specific pieces. That way lies stagnation and stories told by rote.

I really liked WonderScott's "How to fix" series, because the goal there was to shine a light on and appreciate some of the old wacky elements of her backstory. That to me is feels like a much more fun approach, and potentially more likely to be appreciated by creators.

As for Tynion's Justice League Dark, the old fans of Justice Leage Dark, Shadowpact, and other Vertigo lines have been going gaga over all the old characters that Tynion has included so far. For all that Wonder Woman is at the center of the story, it's fundamentally a story of Wonder Woman in the Vertigo universe.

I must give credit, where credit is due. It was AmiMizuno who started the "How to fix...?" threads, but I enjoyed participating in all of them due to my love of the Wonder rogues.

I think I'm just ready for some intense Wonder world-building akin to that guy from Metropolis and that other guy from Gotham. To me, that means redeveloping some of her past characters/concepts and mining them for all they're worth, while serving some twists and turns along the way. A better example might be how Johns developed his first run on the JSA. I don't need GWW to include these villains for the sake of inclusion, but I guess I'm coming from a vantage point where I see them as inextricably linked to the themes and symbolism of Wonder Woman and her world. If Diana is the center of her universe, these supporting characters and villains are the stars, meteors, galaxies, nebulas, constellations, planets, and black holes that gravitate toward and against her in cycles and rhythms. I see them more entangled in their Wonder-ness than having Black Adam or Lex Luthor show up to challenge Diana. (Although that's fun from time-to-time, it shouldn't be at the expense of sidelining the development of her foes.)

I absolutely agree that Diana and her stories need to reflect her personality and outlook. Some of that uniqueness was lost in her DCnU incarnation and it feels like we're just getting back to that outlook and personality now, between Rucka's handling of her during Rebirth and the beginnings of GWW's run.

Getting back to Diana's "outlook and personality" is one of my top three things that needs mending to get back to the core of Wonder Woman and the flavor of her adventures.

(And yeah, I've ranked these things to keep top of mind and keep me on track for developing my WW Series Bible.)

[Agent Z]

Then why the mythological ones? Why can't we have both?

Because mythological enemies make a lot more sense for stories about magic and myth than Blue Snowman. And Justice League Dark is exploring all corners of the DCU’s mystical side not just WW’s.

[Agent Z]

I love your spin(no pun intended) on all of this. There so much potential in these rogues to work with yet they keep getting left on the shelf & instead we get another Circe or Ares story.

Rucka’s second run focused heavily on Cheetah and Veronica Cale and Silver Swan was featured in Robinson’s run.