If You Love the Wonder Rogues, It's Time to Take Action

[numberthirty]

And how many folks do you believe are aware of Nightmaster, Traci 13, Blue Devil, and Manitou Dawn?

You are joking around, right?

[SiegePerilous02]

Do I want to see more villains? Sure. But to me the need for good Wonder Woman stories is right now more important than a forced inclusion of old villains.

Yeah, while I want a writer to come on board and revitalize the old villains (and I hope Wilson is such a writer), I only want them to do so if they genuinely want to do it and have a story in mind. Forcing writers to do things seldom leads to anything good, and apathy on the part of the writer is the last thing the WW rogues need. That's how we get the Finch situations with Aegeus and Dr. Poison.

It's also what lead to Seeley being forced to put Nightwing back in Bludhaven despite him not caring for the setting, and that hasn't turned out well in the long run.

[Dr. Poison]

You are joking around, right?

Ok, I'll give you Blue Devil especially with the Swamp Thing casting news that was released today but do you really think more people have heard of Nightmaster, Traci, 13, and Manitou Dawn than Giganta, Dr. Pscyho, or Dr. Poison?

[numberthirty]

Ok, I'll give you Blue Devil especially with the Swamp Thing casting news that was released today but do you really think more people have heard of Nightmaster, Traci, 13, and Manitou Dawn than Giganta, Dr. Pscyho, or Dr. Poison?

Two things...

First, are you just completely not up to speed on Shadowpact?

Second - If you start here...

I didn't mean Blue Snowman for JLDark. I meant Diana's non-public domain mystical rogues like the Queen of Fables, Dark Angel, Dark Commander, or the White Magician.

only to wind up here...

Ok, I'll give you Blue Devil especially with the Swamp Thing casting news that was released today but do you really think more people have heard of Nightmaster, Traci, 13, and Manitou Dawn than Giganta, Dr. Pscyho, or Dr. Poison?

It says volumes about the validity of what the initial argument was.

Never mind Traci 13 or Manitou Dawn.

[Dr. Poison]

Two things...

First, are you just completely not up to speed on Shadowpact?

Second - If you start here...



only to wind up here...



It says volumes about the validity of what the initial argument was.

Never mind Traci 13 or Manitou Dawn.

I got the impression that you thought all of the Wonder-rogues were characters most people had never heard of based of many of your comments over the years. The fact that you were directly referring to the ones I am surprised haven't even been mentioned in JLDark makes more sense although the Queen of Fables has taken on 2 different versions of the Justice League(Waid's JLA and Orlando's JLA) and Dark Angel took on Devin Grayson's Titans.

[numberthirty]

I got the impression that you thought all of the Wonder-rogues were characters most people had never heard of based of many of your comments over the years. The fact that you were directly referring to the ones I am surprised haven't even been mentioned in JLDark makes more sense although the Queen of Fables has taken on 2 different versions of the Justice League(Waid's JLA and Orlando's JLA) and Dark Angel took on Devin Grayson's Titans.

That's sort of the whole point.

When did that run end? 2004 or 2005?

[Dr. Poison]

That's sort of the whole point.

When did that run end? 2004 or 2005?

Well, it's not like Shadowpact is still flying off the stands either and with the Queen of Fables facing 2 different versions of the JLA, I think that puts her above anyone who was a member of Shadowpact and I do like some members of Shadowpact quite a bit including Nightshade and Blue Devil(I had hoped he would have joined the satellite-era JLA before it ended but sadly he's faded into near obscurity until recently).

[numberthirty]

Well, it's not like Shadowpact is still flying off the stands either and with the Queen of Fables facing 2 different versions of the JLA, I think that puts her above anyone who was a member of Shadowpact and I do like some members of Shadowpact quite a bit including Nightshade and Blue Devil(I had hoped he would have joined the satellite-era JLA before it ended but sadly he's faded into near obscurity until recently).

Not when Shadowpact has a direct path leading to Justice League Dark.

There is a perfectly logical reason for them to be a part of it, and essentially no reason for the character that you mentioned(Dark Angel) to. The closest thing to a reason is an appearance that is going on fifteen years old.

[Dr. Poison]

Not when Shadowpact has a direct path leading to Justice League Dark.

There is a perfectly logical reason for them to be a part of it, and essentially no reason for the character that you mentioned(Dark Angel) to. The closest thing to a reason is an appearance that is going on fifteen years old.

Yet, the Shawowpact was not relevant to the original version of JLDark that Jeff Lemire wrote most of. Tynion chose to use Detective Chimp(of all characters) to establish this link between JLDark and the Shadowpact and that's why we're getting the appearances by Nightmaster and such. JLDark is also about magic not working right across the DCU. That's why characters like Constantine, Dr. Fate, Phantom Stranger, etc. are appearing. I don't see why not a single one of WW non-public domain rogues doesn't have at least a small story or at the very least a cameo in the book.

[numberthirty]

Yet, the Shawowpact was not relevant to the original version of JLDark that Jeff Lemire wrote most of. Tynion chose to use Detective Chimp(of all characters) to establish this link between JLDark and the Shadowpact and that's why we're getting the appearances by Nightmaster and such. JLDark is also about magic not working right across the DCU. That's why characters like Constantine, Dr. Fate, Phantom Stranger, etc. are appearing. I don't see why not a single one of WW non-public domain rogues doesn't have at least a small story or at the very least a cameo in the book.

This version of JLD is coming out of an event.

Two members of Shadowpact were pretty central in that event. What Lemire wrote is a non-issue. A book coming out of an event is using characters that were fairly central in that event. Pretty direct path to what is happening now.

As for the characters you mentioned, three or four of them would even have a cursory connection to what is going on in this book. Maybe.

Of those three or four, one of them is dead(as far as I know). The others are either in need of work/showed up recently elsewhere/won't draw much in the way of readership.

Pretty easy to see why a creative team might not use them.

[Pinsir]

This has been a problem for a while now, but I'm not certain what our action plan would be. Protest DC headquarters? Boycott? Pester the author over twitter to change her already inked and coloured story?

The Bronze Age was a nice mix of mythological stories and rogues gallery fights, both new and old. Perez was maybe 3/4th mythological stuff and that seemed to set the mood for most post-Crisis stories and now it must be 9/10. This process actually mirrors what happened to Thor. In during the Jack Kirby's reign on the title, Thor fought communists and sci-fi villains like Tomorrow Man. Now he mostly fights mythological foes.

[Dr. Poison]

This has been a problem for a while now, but I'm not certain what our action plan would be. Protest DC headquarters? Boycott? Pester the author over twitter to change her already inked and coloured story?

The Bronze Age was a nice mix of mythological stories and rogues gallery fights, both new and old. Perez was maybe 3/4th mythological stuff and that seemed to set the mood for most post-Crisis stories and now it must be 9/10. This process actually mirrors what happened to Thor. In during the Jack Kirby's reign on the title, Thor fought communists and sci-fi villains like Tomorrow Man. Now he mostly fights mythological foes.

I'm not calling for protests outside of DC Headquarters. Just hit the building with the Purple Death Ray and be done with it!

In all seriousness, I do think passing along comments to the creators and management/publishing team at DC is the way to go. Will it change already drawn stories? Almost definitely not but it may inspire change in 6 or 12 months down the line.

[Dr. Poison]

This version of JLD is coming out of an event.

Two members of Shadowpact were pretty central in that event. What Lemire wrote is a non-issue. A book coming out of an event is using characters that were fairly central in that event. Pretty direct path to what is happening now.

As for the characters you mentioned, three or four of them would even have a cursory connection to what is going on in this book. Maybe.

Of those three or four, one of them is dead(as far as I know). The others are either in need of work/showed up recently elsewhere/won't draw much in the way of readership.

Pretty easy to see why a creative team might not use them.

I agree that it's easy to see why the creative team might not use them. The creative team is going the easy, cookie-cutter route and regurgitating the same characters from Greek myth that Diana has fought several times before with the exception of Hecate(she's only fought Diana twice to my knowledge).

[numberthirty]

I don't know about framing it as "Easy"/"Cookie Cutter" just because a couple of folks on a comic book message board aren't getting exactly what they want out of it.

How realistic would it be to break out Nebiros and do some fix up work just because Swamp Thing is a part of the team?

[Dr. Poison]

I don't know about framing it as "Easy"/"Cookie Cutter" just because a couple of folks on a comic book message board aren't getting exactly what they want out of it.

How realistic would it be to break out Nebiros and do some fix up work just because Swamp Thing is a part of the team?

I don't really know enough about Nebiros to comment on that.