X-Sales November 2018

[ExodusCloak]

Man, I wonder what's behind the seeming decline of the X-line in a growing industry? Is it movie conspiracies and Marvel trying to make themselves less money? Is it the lack of MP3 players that bump trap remixes of the 90's theme in every issue? Was it the lack of X-Clops? The teams? The brand and franchise itself no longer mattering? Gee whiz, what could it be? Surely not the handing of the franchise over to an iffy editor who made many bad casting decisions and editorial requests with a spotty quality control history that's led to the decline of other flagship franchises and the death of an entire imprint before, right?

It's not just Marvel.

[butterflykyss]

Have you read Morrison's X-Men manifesto? He says the same thing. He says the X-Men is stuck in a rut of circular story telling and his intentions were to break the cycle. They went back yes. But we knew that already. The older stories were better argument is why the new writers are doing homage to them.

Pirating is one issue. The medium as a whole dying is another. Then there's distribution and why manga can sell incredibly well vs why comics can't do those numbers

none of these stories that pay homage even close to the older stuff. they have to just stop it's not creative and it frankly isnt good.

to your last I will take ur word for this.

[ExodusCloak]

This is what I can find from the manifesto. Charles and Magnetos ending at the end of his run was meant to symbolise the break of the circular nature of X-book story telling. I guess they went back to basics with Whedons run.

The Omnibus edition of Morrison's "New X-Men" contains his pitch for the series -- literally titled "THE MANIFESTO" -- in which he not only justifies what he wants to do for the series, but why it needs to be done. Morrison's one of the few comic book writers who puts plenty of "here's how we make this series matter again -- here's how we attract new readers" logic into his pitches. If you've ever seen the Superman 2000 pitch," you can see his hand in trying to make a franchise more appealing to the readers. Though the rejection of that pitch ultimately drove Morrison (and others) to Marvel.

But in his X-Manifesto, Morrison lays out the problems with the franchise back at the turn of the new century: "comics like the 'X-Men,'" he writes, "have gone from freewheeling, overdriven pop to cautious, dodgy retro. What was dynamic becomes static -- dead characters always return, nothing that happens really matters ultimately. The stage is never cleared for new creations to develop and grow. The comic has turned inwards and gone septic like a toenail."

Such criticisms could apply to more than just the X-franchise, certainly, but Morrison had some specific methods for recapturing the "freewheeling, overdriven pop" sensibilities and attracting the hordes of fans who were so eager to line up for the "X-Men" movies, but so reluctant to read about the characters in the "old-fashioned, overdense" style of the comics.

One step Morrison proposes is to use the 40 years of X-continuity as "background window dressing and as a treasure trove of material" rather than something inherent in every story. Ditch the idea of continuity, but reintroduce the good stuff from the past in ways that make sense. That's what Morrison describes in the Manifesto.

Thematically, "'X-Men' is not a story about superheroes," writes Morrison, "but a story about the ongoing revolutionary struggle between good/new and bad/old. The X-Men are every rebel teenager wanting to change the world and make it better. Humanity is every adult, clinging to the past, trying to destroy the future even as he places all his hopes there."

Bringing back the "kick-ass anything can happen feel" and abandoning the spandex costumes in favor of biker-style uniforms is just a way to get a larger audience reading about those themes. It worked. It attracted new readers. I know it brought me back to the franchise after many years of sampling an issue here and there and finding all of them completely worthless.

Just because Marvel ignored or outright reversed everything Morrison did to change the series for the better doesn't make his "New X-Men" run any less important. It just makes Marvel look foolish for refusing to see the potential in moving forward instead of backwards.

[StephenFoxMonster]

They damaged the brand and now have to rebuild it again (via visual entertainment).

[ExodusCloak]

They damaged the brand and now have to rebuild it again (via visual entertainment).

But that's the point I'm making. Uncanny was referred to on these boards as bullet proof regardless of whether people on these boards liked it or hated it. It sold the same relatively to how well the market was doing. It was the last book iirc to get a relaunch as a new volume.

The line to cancel books used to be much higher once you reached 20,000 you were gone now it's around 15,000

[WebLurker]

yes marvels efforts to destroy the franchise seems to have worked for the most part.

Except Marvel never did; there's a difference between destroying and letting something else take priority.

ypeople are tired of reading the same retired stories packaged differently.

Maybe.

Or it could just be that other stuff is more popular right now. Everything waxes and wanes back and forth here. Dollars to donuts, X-Men will get their shot at being at the top of the bone pile down the line as the wheel turns.

Or in the pop-culture consciousness. But that's what happens when you deliberately let a franchise go to seed.

I think movies do more for that then comics do these days and by that metric, X-Men is okay overall.

Or straight white males don't feel properly represented

Can we get off debunked myths and stick to ideas that fit the facts?

[Maestroneto]

Man, I wonder what's behind the seeming decline of the X-line in a growing industry? Is it movie conspiracies and Marvel trying to make themselves less money? Is it the lack of MP3 players that bump trap remixes of the 90's theme in every issue? Was it the lack of X-Clops? The teams? The brand and franchise itself no longer mattering? Gee whiz, what could it be? Surely not the handing of the franchise over to an iffy editor who made many bad casting decisions and editorial requests with a spotty quality control history that's led to the decline of other flagship franchises and the death of an entire imprint before, right?

Daniel Ketchum orchestrated the Resurxion relaunch though, not Paniccia.

[Sundown]

Or straight white males don't feel properly represented

There's a seed of truth in this, albeit a controversial one.

This was the target audience for decades and the bulk of Marvel's base. Marvel wanted to broaden their audience, which is understandable, but the efforts can and do alienate that target audience, at times. Laura is a prime example. It's the reason she can't and won't replace Wolverine. Same power set, male readers can't relate to a teen girl, though.

The only book that comes to mind over the past year that has a straight male lead was what, Astonishing, with Alex? The rest have had a bunch of background or filler guys.

I'm not casting judgment on whether this is good or bad, I'm just saying he might have a point, especially when you take into account the feedback interview Marvel did about 6 months ago about what fans did and didn't want. The gnashing of teeth they got from those comments seem to make them back pedal.

I've never been Marvel's target audience, but I still picked the books up and started reading way back when. I know others have as well.

really? how so with characters like beast, gambit, magneto, Maddox, x, angel, cable (cable jr), and nightcrawler there??? please I would like to hear this explained further.

Only Cable and Magneto are written as 'alpha' males. Magneto is a villain and Cable has been killed off and replaced with a teenager.

Kurt only came close to being written as alpha in Excalibur. Beast, Gambit, Madrox and Angel never have.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer, here. There's just what you like and want to see and what doesn't do it for you. Marvel appears to be missing the mark of late, going by numbers.

I also think the years of Cyclops and Wolverine focus deeply damaged the franchise and writers no longer seem to know how to write teams where they all feel important and relevant.

[Snoop Dogg]

Daniel Ketchum orchestrated the Resurxion relaunch though, not Paniccia.

I've seen nothing to indicate that Panic wasn't his senior and can't see a lot of the boneheaded moves from the past 12 months being on Ketchum post-firing. Like, it's Panic. This has happened like three times before with him. I expect it to be him the fourth time, too.

[Disciple of Redd]

I don't think the sales have much to do with incels not seeing enough white alphas or whatever.

What X-Men needs is a big-name writer promising an ostensibly large story.

What's happening in Avengers? Celestials coming to wreck Earth and literal war between worlds. Some imaginative stuff.

What's happening in X-Men? A 18th version of Cable doing the 2000th alternate reality that isn't going to be canon.

You still can't read X-Men and expect a huge narrative and distinctly-recognizable character voices, for the most part, Kelly Thompson's handling of Rogue and Gambit aside.

X-Men needs high-drama and/or incredible fantasy and we are getting neither right now.

Morrison would have broken up Jott, Scemma, AND SeaEmma while revealing a sentient, malevolent computer virus by now.

Basically, more stuff needs to happen in the books and they can't be afraid to not just repeat the same thing over again.

Do we really need anything titled "Age of" again? It's so lazy and uninventive.

Do we really need to see Jott again?

Marvel needs to bring the newness.

[butterflykyss]

This is what I can find from the manifesto. Charles and Magnetos ending at the end of his run was meant to symbolise the break of the circular nature of X-book story telling. I guess they went back to basics with Whedons run.

thanks for sharing. I never read morrisons run but there is definitely a lot of truth here.

But that's the point I'm making. Uncanny was referred to on these boards as bullet proof regardless of whether people on these boards liked it or hated it. It sold the same relatively to how well the market was doing. It was the last book iirc to get a relaunch as a new volume.

The line to cancel books used to be much higher once you reached 20,000 you were gone now it's around 15,000

I was reserving judgment on the title until I read for myself. fans and critics alike have canned the book for the same reason as being more of the same. also I wouldnt say 5k more is a lot higher when you think about how large xtitles would sell at.

Except Marvel never did; there's a difference between destroying and letting something else take priority

that would be fine if you didnt see xmen be moved from all marvel merchandise, games, etc. marvel stopped pushing xcharacters because they didnt have the full rights to them. there has been too many things leaked from their internal offices that support them actively trying to lessen the xmen impact. this of course recently has changed with the imminent merger to be finalized in the new year.

There's a seed of truth in this, albeit a controversial one.

This was the target audience for decades and the bulk of Marvel's base. Marvel wanted to broaden their audience, which is understandable, but the efforts can and do alienate that target audience, at times. Laura is a prime example. It's the reason she can't and won't replace Wolverine. Same power set, male readers can't relate to a teen girl, though.

the xmen rose from the ashes literally primarily to Claremont who was known for his strong female characters. yes marvel has most certainly tried to broaden their audiences but the xoffices unfortunately is still pretty driven by white characters and yes that includes straight white males. you have the franchise for decades center around Logan and Scott, with the O5 being the back drop. people want good stories not books that center around straight white men.

The only book that comes to mind over the past year that has a straight male lead was what, Astonishing, with Alex? The rest have had a bunch of background or filler guys.

cyclops beast, magneto and Angel's presence wasnt filler. cable leading an xforce tram and having his own solo wasn't filler, Maddox getting his own book isnt filler. the fact of the matter frankly is that the xoffices post Claremont has devoted nothing but devote their all to their white characters, primarily their straight ones, and this really hasnt changed since either wolverine or cyclops died.

I'm not casting judgment on whether this is good or bad, I'm just saying he might have a point, especially when you take into account the feedback interview Marvel did about 6 months ago about what fans did and didn't want. The gnashing of teeth they got from those comments seem to make them back pedal.

I've never been Marvel's target audience, but I still picked the books up and started reading way back when. I know others have as well.

there is a market for characters who are not white, male and straight just look at Kamala's success for evidence of this. I mean if this is what they want, which the xoffices did listen to with titles such as cable, why wasnt his book as successful?

Only Cable and Magneto are written as 'alpha' males. Magneto is a villain and Cable has been killed off and replaced with a teenager.

Kurt only came close to being written as alpha in Excalibur. Beast, Gambit, Madrox and Angel never have.

again I ask why didnt cable book do as well. heck with as many shots as nightcrawler has gotten why hasnt his book done as well.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer, here. There's just what you like and want to see and what doesn't do it for you. Marvel appears to be missing the mark of late, going by numbers.

I also think the years of Cyclops and Wolverine focus deeply damaged the franchise and writers no longer seem to know how to write teams where they all feel important and relevant.

I agree with all of this and that is why they are running the risk of falling back into that trap if they dont self correct. it wasnt the cyclops and Logan show primarily when these characters began to swell in popularity.

[Snoop Dogg]

What X-Men needs is a big-name writer promising an ostensibly large story.

Marvel needs to bring the newness.

Bingo. Not complicated. Not about demographics or the market. Brevoort/Lowe/Moss have scooped up all the big brains who write up the massive outlines. Every other medium is getting bigger and more ambitious with their stories. Every other Marvel franchise is going bigger and more ambitious. Over here in X-Land we've been getting editors as the chefs instead of the managers who are serving up nostalgia waffles doused in comfort syrup with all the big, cool, and new ideas being thrown out like burnt pancakes and eaten by raccoons with symbiotes for Venom crossovers. And two big events back to back are coming across as more of a retro reset omelet, mainly spearheaded by somone who hasn't done a big outline or really long run at Marvel before. Where is the faith and excitement beyond faves coming back?

[Muffinman]

It is sad to see the amazing characterisation of Rogue and Gambit in MMX not selling too well. The quality of this book is better than pretty much every other x-book in the line right now.

[StephenFoxMonster]

But that's the point I'm making. Uncanny was referred to on these boards as bullet proof regardless of whether people on these boards liked it or hated it. It sold the same relatively to how well the market was doing. It was the last book iirc to get a relaunch as a new volume.

The line to cancel books used to be much higher once you reached 20,000 you were gone now it's around 15,000

It is interesting to read and learn about these things, especially since I'm on my third year as a comic book reader.

[butterflykyss]

It is sad to see the amazing characterisation of Rogue and Gambit in MMX not selling too well. The quality of this book is better than pretty much every other x-book in the line right now.

I hate to hear the title is not doing as well as it should either. its unfortunate especially when many fans if the characters have raved about the book.