Marvel History will be "Destroyed!" March 2019

[cranger]

were you one of those people? a lot of the people who post here posted prior to Secret Empire and during Secret Empire. i'm still waiting for someone to follow through and stop collecting.

I don't necessarily share the same opinions of "those people" but I pretty much stopped collecting Marvel comics. I do relapse every once in a while and check some things out but nothing sticks for all sorts of reasons (crappy paper/ink being a big one.) That said, the inability for most of us to kick the habit has no relevancy to the inability of the current comics to hook new and future addicts.

[Michael Watkins]

I don't necessarily share the same opinions of "those people" but I pretty much stopped collecting Marvel comics. I do relapse every once in a while and check some things out but nothing sticks for all sorts of reasons (crappy paper/ink being a big one.) That said, the inability for most of us to kick the habit has no relevancy to the inability of the current comics to hook new and future addicts.

advertising the anniversary of Captain America by itself doesn't do anything to gain new readers. at best, it gets some old readers to come into the comic shop to embarrassingly attempt to sell their old beat up Captain America comcis (in an effort to exploit the anniversary).

[cranger]

advertising the anniversary of Captain America by itself doesn't do anything to gain new readers. at best, it gets some old readers to come into the comic shop to embarrassingly attempt to sell their old beat up Captain America comcis (in an effort to exploit the anniversary).

That is the kind of attention that usually gets current or lapsed readers to take a look.

There are new readers though. Maybe they started with actual Marvel titles like Star Wars or Ms Marvel. Maybe they found Walking Dead or Saga. Maybe their kid wanted to read My Little Pony and they saw the current TMNT series. At some point Marvel (and all publishers) hope those readers look for other stuff to try. There are way more readers out there picking up only a handful of books who should easily be able to be sold on more, Marvel has the most recognizable characters at the moment. This stuff should sell itself if not for being mismanaged by people thinking they have to try to get a small number of 'zombies' to buy everything still.

[Nazrel]

were you one of those people? a lot of the people who post here posted prior to Secret Empire and during Secret Empire. i'm still waiting for someone to follow through and stop collecting.

Well, it in no way inspired me to pick it up, further reinforced my "events suck and don't buy them" policy and overall lack of faith in the company; and honestly I'm 2 steps removed from just washing my hands of Marvel, do to their recent total inability hold up to basic standards of coherent narratives, and consistent characterization; it's all just become empty noise.

I had picked the first trade of that Captain America run from library, just to have an informed opinion, but just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Here's a little frame of reference and a personal Anecdote. I am not an old fan, I only got into Marvel comics in the last few years (and I'm starting to regret it), though I have read a lot of older stuff via Marvel unlimited, I am one of those "mythical" new fans who gave it a shot do to the movies (and Marvel unlimited), I have no compulsion or loyalty to buy anything from them if it looks like #@$%.

I had some incredibly negative biases against marvel before (all turned out to be at least half true); but there was a time before, back during the original Civil War where I had considered giving them a shot, it had nothing to do with Civil War, it had do with me simply being exposed to a fact that made me rethink if my incredibly negative bias I'd had against them were simply my own ignorance, I'd thought Marvel comics to be these horribly stagnate things, endlessly repeating themselves, never going forward, but I'd thought if Peter Parker and Mary Jane could get married then maybe I was- I don't need to finish the story because everybody should know what prompted my "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up." moment.

So yes, these things do in fact alienate potential readers.

[kilderkin]

Well, it in no way inspired me to pick it up, further reinforced my "events suck and don't buy them" policy and overall lack of faith in the company; and honestly I'm 2 steps removed from just washing my hands of Marvel, do to their recent total inability hold up to basic standards of coherent narratives, and consistent characterization; it's all just become empty noise.

I had picked the first trade of that Captain America run from library, just to have an informed opinion, but just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Here's a little frame of reference and a personal Anecdote. I am not an old fan, I only got into Marvel comics in the last few years (and I'm starting to regret it), though I have read a lot of older stuff via Marvel unlimited, I am one of those "mythical" new fans who gave it a shot do to the movies (and Marvel unlimited), I have no compulsion or loyalty to buy anything from them if it looks like #@$%.

I had some incredibly negative biases against marvel before (all turned out to be at least half true); but there was a time before, back during the original Civil War where I had considered giving them a shot, it had nothing to do with Civil War, it had do with me simply being exposed to a fact that made me rethink if my incredibly negative bias I'd had against them were simply my own ignorance, I'd thought Marvel comics to be these horribly stagnate things, endlessly repeating themselves, never going forward, but I'd thought if Peter Parker and Mary Jane could get married then maybe I was- I don't need to finish the story because everybody should know what prompted my "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up." moment.

So yes, these things do in fact alienate potential readers.

All its done is irritate me with the cheap tactic and ensured I skip the books

Sensational promos might get me talking, but rarely does it get me buying

[Michael Watkins]

Well, it in no way inspired me to pick it up, further reinforced my "events suck and don't buy them" policy and overall lack of faith in the company; and honestly I'm 2 steps removed from just washing my hands of Marvel, do to their recent total inability hold up to basic standards of coherent narratives, and consistent characterization; it's all just become empty noise.

I had picked the first trade of that Captain America run from library, just to have an informed opinion, but just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Here's a little frame of reference and a personal Anecdote. I am not an old fan, I only got into Marvel comics in the last few years (and I'm starting to regret it), though I have read a lot of older stuff via Marvel unlimited, I am one of those "mythical" new fans who gave it a shot do to the movies (and Marvel unlimited), I have no compulsion or loyalty to buy anything from them if it looks like #@$%.

I had some incredibly negative biases against marvel before (all turned out to be at least half true); but there was a time before, back during the original Civil War where I had considered giving them a shot, it had nothing to do with Civil War, it had do with me simply being exposed to a fact that made me rethink if my incredibly negative bias I'd had against them were simply my own ignorance, I'd thought Marvel comics to be these horribly stagnate things, endlessly repeating themselves, never going forward, but I'd thought if Peter Parker and Mary Jane could get married then maybe I was- I don't need to finish the story because everybody should know what prompted my "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up." moment.

So yes, these things do in fact alienate potential readers.

well yeah. people biased against Marvel are going to find reasons no to read. I was talking about open-minded would-be readers. nothing stagnant about Secret Empire.

[Nazrel]

well yeah. people biased against Marvel are going to find reasons no to read. I was talking about open-minded would-be readers. nothing stagnant about Secret Empire.

You're not listening.
I was being quite open minded until they gave me a very good reason not to be! (I had been considering on trying to pick up the entire spider-man series from the beginning; trades I'm not insane.)
Whether Secret Empire is stagnant or not is irrelevant! Why should anyone come at this stuff open-minded, when their idea of marketing is giving you every reason to not want to give it a chance!

[Michael Watkins]

You're not listening.
I was being quite open minded until they gave me a very good reason not to be! (I had been considering on trying to pick up the entire spider-man series from the beginning; trades I'm not insane.)
Whether Secret Empire is stagnant or not is irrelevant! Why should anyone come at this stuff open-minded, when their idea of marketing is giving you every reason to not want to give it a chance!

Because it was an idea that I found exciting and unexpected. It's the kind of thing a tv show would use to draw people in for another season.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Well, it in no way inspired me to pick it up, further reinforced my "events suck and don't buy them" policy and overall lack of faith in the company; and honestly I'm 2 steps removed from just washing my hands of Marvel, do to their recent total inability hold up to basic standards of coherent narratives, and consistent characterization; it's all just become empty noise.

I had picked the first trade of that Captain America run from library, just to have an informed opinion, but just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Here's a little frame of reference and a personal Anecdote. I am not an old fan, I only got into Marvel comics in the last few years (and I'm starting to regret it), though I have read a lot of older stuff via Marvel unlimited, I am one of those "mythical" new fans who gave it a shot do to the movies (and Marvel unlimited), I have no compulsion or loyalty to buy anything from them if it looks like #@$%.

I had some incredibly negative biases against marvel before (all turned out to be at least half true); but there was a time before, back during the original Civil War where I had considered giving them a shot, it had nothing to do with Civil War, it had do with me simply being exposed to a fact that made me rethink if my incredibly negative bias I'd had against them were simply my own ignorance, I'd thought Marvel comics to be these horribly stagnate things, endlessly repeating themselves, never going forward, but I'd thought if Peter Parker and Mary Jane could get married then maybe I was- I don't need to finish the story because everybody should know what prompted my "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up." moment.

So yes, these things do in fact alienate potential readers.

It's cool to hear from a "mythical new reader" who was drawn in from the movies.

If you want to understand why the Marvel style of storytelling became such a sensation, I'd say go back to the beginning.

I think that any Marvel series is worth reading for its first 200 issues. Lots of innovation. Lots of world building. Lots of risk taking. And NOT lots of repetition, regurgitation, gimmicks, fakeouts, empty hype, false promises, and convoluted continuity.

After 200 issues, quality starts to vary widely in my opinion. FF was good through the John Byrne run (almost up to #300), but one might say it was a Lee/Kirby knockoff (or homage, depending on your point of view), so you might see it as regurgitation or you might see it as getting back to basics.

Thor was also good for about 300 issues (through the Walt Simonson era). I happened to like the DeFalco/Frenz Lee-Kirby homage that followed until they replaced Thor with Eric Masterson, but again one person's homage is another's rehash.

So, my overall recommendation is to read each Marvel series from the beginning until it starts to feel old and repetitive to you. As stated, I'd predict you'd get to at least the 200th issue of any given series.

It will all depend on whether you can appreciate the way that comics were written and drawn back then, but I think if you give it an honest shot and stick with it, it will draw you in.

[DevilBat66]

I first started reading Marvel regularly in 1977-1978 after starting with DC. Never gave up DC, and I'm glad I didn't, but those first several years of discovering Marvel were quite exciting. It was a fully realized fictional universe in a way that DC just wasn't at the time. Every comic you read led you to want to track down a back issue that was referenced, which led to more and more. It was quite a heady experience as a kid to watch this universe unfold before you and to piece together its history from the various recaps and tidbits in the current comics.

Then, 1984's Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars happened. An overhyped, by-the-numbers, boilerplate slugfest, toy tie-in that sold in huge numbers, but was devoid of any real thought or creativity -- and it was obvious. It bugged me that Marvel crapped out such mediocre garbage assured that their loyal Zombies would lap it up. It bugged me even more that it worked. Marvel learned all the wrong lessons from it, and they've been cranking out gimmick after gimmick ever since. And it still seems to work.

You're never going to get a Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman, etc. etc. from Marvel. Being number one in sales each month for the most part, they just don't have to try. So they don't.

That's too bad because what Stan, Jack, Steve, Gene Colan, John Buscema, Roy Thomas, and the rest created during the 60s and 70s still seems so fresh and innovative even when read today. Marvel was young and hungry. Marvel didn't have to rely on gimmicks and trolling the fans back then. They welcomed fans into their club and made Marvel an exhilarating and inviting place to discover.

Yeah. Secret Wars was the end of "The Marvel Comics Group" and the beginning of the "Marvel Universe" as I like to think about it.

I loved and still love the MCG. The MU has been letdown after letdown for decades. At least for me.

[JKtheMac]

So this is all revealed to be a bit of marketing for a relatively inconsequential mini (a broadly comedic one at that) and yet everyone is still arguing about events and the overall strategy of Marvel? I don’t understand.

[Daniel22]

So this is all revealed to be a bit of marketing for a relatively inconsequential mini (a broadly comedic one at that) and yet everyone is still arguing about events and the overall strategy of Marvel? I don’t understand.

When it might be a big, universe changing event: people are upset.
When it's a comedy book, highly unlikely to be referenced in main continuity: people are still upset.

[JKtheMac]

When it might be a big, universe changing event: people are upset.
When it's a comedy book, highly unlikely to be referenced in main continuity: people are still upset.

About what though? One might as well get angry that Punisher actually Killed the Marvel Universe!

[John Ossie]

About what though? One might as well get angry that Punisher actually Killed the Marvel Universe!

I'm sure there are people who get angry over that story arc. Can't name anyone specific but I wouldn't mind betting there's at least one comic reader who gets angry over that.

[JKtheMac]

I'm sure there are people who get angry over that story arc. Can't name anyone specific but I wouldn't mind betting there's at least one comic reader who gets angry over that.

You make a good point. They don't, but you do