Marvel History will be "Destroyed!" March 2019

[kilderkin]

I can only speak for myself. but I think they should have exploited it more. unlike the Dark Reign era, we saw very little of Secret Empire from the viewpoint of the actual villains. during Dark Reign, there was a Dark Avengers book and several minis. this time, we just got Brave New World. If not a Secret Empire Avengers book, they could have at least given me my Taskmaster/Black Ant mini!

I had heard they intended on it lasting longer as a theme across the books like dark reign but culled that idea when there was some overt negative reaction

I don't know if that's so of course

[kilderkin]

From the way some people acted, clearly not everyone knew it would be ok in the end. You don't send death threats when you know "Aw, it's just a story - Cap will be fine!"

As for it being insulting, the only thing as a fan I find insulting is not getting the best story a writer can deliver. Secret Empire was a great story and where some thought the timeliness of it was inappropriate, I think it's what made it all the more compelling.

And as we know, SE didn't actually turn Steve into anything. It was his doppelganger and the real Steve is still intact.

Would I want Captain America to always be mired in an evil Cap storyline? No, of course not. But too many fans are too quick to hit the panic button rather than let a story play out (or even react calmly to teasers!).

I just didn't rate it myself, I had looked forward to the return of cap with the shield in cap 1 and the reveal put me off the whole thing,

I also didn't rate the ending nor how so e heroes sided with what was clearly a facist state

But that's just me

As an aside the cube did change cap, it wasn't a doppelganger and created a new cap from the bits she effectively removed

If anything neither of them are the original cap from that continuity prior to the story even if the cube created heroic cap acts as we expect

[Michael Watkins]

I just didn't rate it myself, I had looked forward to the return of cap with the shield in cap 1 and the reveal put me off the whole thing,

I also didn't rate the ending nor how so e heroes sided with what was clearly a facist state

But that's just me

As an aside the cube did change cap, it wasn't a doppelganger and created a new cap from the bits she effectively removed

If anything neither of them are the original cap from that continuity prior to the story even if the cube created heroic cap acts as we expect

that depends entirely on how you define "real" and/or "original." remember that Steve Rogers died with everyone else fighting Onslaught. reality had to be warped to bring them back.

[kilderkin]

that depends entirely on how you define "real" and/or "original." remember that Steve Rogers died with everyone else fighting Onslaught. reality had to be warped to bring them back.

Which was why I said within that current continuity as oppose to say pre secret wars and so forth

[MajorHoy]

. . . And as we know, SE didn't actually turn Steve into anything. It was his doppelganger and the real Steve is still intact.

. . . As an aside the cube did change cap, it wasn't a doppelganger and created a new cap from the bits she effectively removed

If anything neither of them are the original cap from that continuity prior to the story even if the cube created heroic cap acts as we expect

This is the problem: we still had an evil Cap / a changed history.

At the end of the story, Hydra-Cap wasn't revealed as an "imposter" posing as Steve; it was a different Steve.

Many of the deaths that resulted from what Hydra-Cap caused didn't automatically get wiped out and forgotten by the world. Characters were still dead (though some seem to be coming back now).

(And when Mark Waid & Chris Samnee took over Cap, we got three issues of good-Steve trying to reestablish his reputation across America before throwing him into a big-ol' ice cube again.)

Somehow, I don't think Steve "is still intact" quite like you're making it sound.

[jetengine]

insulting to whom? American Nazis? I loved Secret Empire. and I wish that it were still ongoing.

*Literal Nazis are walking the American streets, murdered someone and being defended by the President*

"Hey lets take the guy who was created by a jewish author as a 'fuck you' to Nazis and on his anniversary make him one. Oh and during interveiws lets just hammer home that this is how it actually always was and is"

The intent may have been smart but the execution was ludicrously hamfisted.

[Rich Johnston]

Fake News Article = jokes.

And harass?

[Michael Watkins]

*Literal Nazis are walking the American streets, murdered someone and being defended by the President*

"Hey lets take the guy who was created by a jewish author as a 'fuck you' to Nazis and on his anniversary make him one. Oh and during interveiws lets just hammer home that this is how it actually always was and is"

The intent may have been smart but the execution was ludicrously hamfisted.

The execution was a reaction to reader overreaction. Cap has been evil before. Reality has been altered before.

[Daniel22]

What a difference a few days makes... The last time I was on CBR this was the hot thread and posters were all in a tizzy. Now it's a dead thread on page five.
This is reaching Lucy with the football levels of predictability. And people fall for it EVERY TIME.

The weird thing is that people were upset that it's Cosmic Ghost Rider, but were also upset when it might be a big line wide event. If you didn't want a big, universe spanning story that changes things, isn't a comedy mini series much better? Not saying it would interest you or you would like it or buy it, but if the concern was changing continuity or disrespecting Stan or similar, isn't this much better?

[The Whovian]

I hate this stuff. Don’t change it from how Stan and Jack intended it.

Bingo!

10 char

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I first started reading Marvel regularly in 1977-1978 after starting with DC. Never gave up DC, and I'm glad I didn't, but those first several years of discovering Marvel were quite exciting. It was a fully realized fictional universe in a way that DC just wasn't at the time. Every comic you read led you to want to track down a back issue that was referenced, which led to more and more. It was quite a heady experience as a kid to watch this universe unfold before you and to piece together its history from the various recaps and tidbits in the current comics.

Then, 1984's Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars happened. An overhyped, by-the-numbers, boilerplate slugfest, toy tie-in that sold in huge numbers, but was devoid of any real thought or creativity -- and it was obvious. It bugged me that Marvel crapped out such mediocre garbage assured that their loyal Zombies would lap it up. It bugged me even more that it worked. Marvel learned all the wrong lessons from it, and they've been cranking out gimmick after gimmick ever since. And it still seems to work.

You're never going to get a Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, or Sandman, etc. etc. from Marvel. Being number one in sales each month for the most part, they just don't have to try. So they don't.

That's too bad because what Stan, Jack, Steve, Gene Colan, John Buscema, Roy Thomas, and the rest created during the 60s and 70s still seems so fresh and innovative even when read today. Marvel was young and hungry. Marvel didn't have to rely on gimmicks and trolling the fans back then. They welcomed fans into their club and made Marvel an exhilarating and inviting place to discover.

[Nazrel]

The execution was a reaction to reader overreaction. Cap has been evil before. Reality has been altered before.

On the tail end of Captain America: Civil War, when Steve Rogers is ridding the highest in the Zeitgeist he ever had, on his (Heavily advertised) 75th anniversary, they announce via mainstream publication that he is and always has been a Nazi.

Things would go over better if Marvel didn't always try to present things in the most unpalatable way imaginable.

[Michael Watkins]

On the tail end of Captain America: Civil War, when Steve Rogers is ridding the highest in the Zeitgeist he ever had, on his (Heavily advertised) 75th anniversary, they announce via mainstream publication that he is and always has been a Nazi.

Things would go over better if Marvel didn't always try to present things in the most unpalatable way imaginable.

as this thread demonstrates, the way to get the most attention/reaction is to present the audience with their worst fears. they said that they hated the idea of Cap as a Nazi. but they bought Secret Empire #0 and 1. it got them talking about Captain America. it reminded them that they liked Captain America.

[Nazrel]

as this thread demonstrates, the way to get the most attention/reaction is to present the audience with their worst fears. they said that they hated the idea of Cap as a Nazi. but they bought Secret Empire #0 and 1. it got them talking about Captain America. it reminded them that they liked Captain America.

There is positive, and there is negative attention; the latter, while easier to get, does not necessarily translate into sales, and is in fact alienating, driving away potential and current consumers.

I'm sure there were people at the end of Captain America: Civil War considering picking up the comics who went "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up."

[Michael Watkins]

There is positive, and there is negative attention; the latter, while easier to get, does not necessarily translate into sales, and is in fact alienating, driving away potential and current consumers.

I'm sure there were people at the end of Captain America: Civil War considering picking up the comics who went "Oh, yeah... Marvel comics are stupid incoherent messes, that's why I don't pick them up."

were you one of those people? a lot of the people who post here posted prior to Secret Empire and during Secret Empire. i'm still waiting for someone to follow through and stop collecting.