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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by yohyoi View Post
    Tim keeps on becoming evil in the future. It is comedic how much Jason is a better hero than him. Robin gets more evil every new iteration.
    Meaning its the single worst possible future for Batman. Tim failing means all the hopes Bruce put on the kid were betrayed. It has a deep meaning in the Batman ethos.

    Jason and Damian turning evil doesnt mean much, they are halfway there as it is.

    Also it has thematic resonance with the fact that the future of DC is always depicted as the darkest possible future. That its one step away from falling into darkness, but somehow the heroes keep saving the day, the keep postponing this future.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post
    Meaning its the single worst possible future for Batman. Tim failing means all the hopes Bruce put on the kid were betrayed. It has a deep meaning in the Batman ethos.

    Jason and Damian turning evil doesnt mean much, they are halfway there as it is.

    Also it has thematic resonance with the fact that the future of DC is always depicted as the darkest possible future. That its one step away from falling into darkness, but somehow the heroes keep saving the day, the keep postponing this future.
    Very true I also have always felt a nice counter development wound be that along with Tim becoming Joker Jr. Damien and or Jason could end up becoming the ideal heir to the cowl and I like that idea because I think at least in a else worlds story a good dynamic would be Tim as Joker Jr. antagonizing Damien (who becomes Batman) saying he'll never be Bruce's favorite and for Damien to have taken a vow to never kill again like a death bed promise to Bruce or something I think that would be interesting.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post
    Meaning its the single worst possible future for Batman. Tim failing means all the hopes Bruce put on the kid were betrayed. It has a deep meaning in the Batman ethos.

    Jason and Damian turning evil doesnt mean much, they are halfway there as it is.

    Also it has thematic resonance with the fact that the future of DC is always depicted as the darkest possible future. That its one step away from falling into darkness, but somehow the heroes keep saving the day, the keep postponing this future.
    I like the idea that Bruce pins all his hopes on Tim--only to suffer the greatest betrayal of his life--as you've noted, Tim keeps on becoming evil in the future. It would be far worse than Bruce letting Jason be murdered by the Joker--the notion that he can't save the SOUL of the favorite child, the one he believed would be his successor and heir--but most importantly, the child he believed was the most like HIMSELF. It would literally destroy all of Bruce's last hopes--I love it!!!! I wanna see it happen!!!!!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I wanna see it happen!!!!!!
    Uh, we have.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mataza View Post
    Uh, we have.
    Not only with Tim, but with Dick, too. In fact, the only people we haven't seen become mini-Jokers are Jason and Damien. If DC really wanted to try and do something new with this idea they would use one of them (my preference is Damien).
    Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Not only with Tim, but with Dick, too. In fact, the only people we haven't seen become mini-Jokers are Jason and Damien. If DC really wanted to try and do something new with this idea they would use one of them (my preference is Damien).
    Anything but Bat-Cow. No Jersey Jokers!

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I might be up for another new character following in the cuckoo clown comedian of crime"s footsteps, but not Tim.

    He can stick to Red Robin for me and team up as a duo with Orphan, whenever they let her go back to the Black Bat moniker.

  8. #38
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    They should bring back Joker’s dwarf sidekick from the 60’s.

  9. #39
    Incredible Member Castiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    They should bring back Joker’s dwarf sidekick from the 60’s.
    They did in The Siren's comic story he appeared as an antagonist for Harley.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castiel View Post
    They did in The Siren's comic story he appeared as an antagonist for Harley.
    Now THAT is some deep digging!

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    I don't see any scenarios in which turning Tim into a Joker-ized villain would not be highly controversial, and most likely universially hated with the exception of some anti-Tim partisans. Doesn't this idea bring back uncomfortable memories of Hal Jordan as Parallax?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I don't see any scenarios in which turning Tim into a Joker-ized villain would not be highly controversial, and most likely universially hated with the exception of some anti-Tim partisans. Doesn't this idea bring back uncomfortable memories of Hal Jordan as Parallax?
    I don't know any anti-Tim partisans.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I don't know any anti-Tim partisans.
    You see them on this very website. They are typically Damian Wayne fans or Cassandra Cain fans, or some other Bat family character who is percieved as being neglected by DC. They see Tim Drake as sort of stealing the possibility of these aforementioned Bat Family members from getting the spotlight. As well as criticisms that he is bland, and having other detractors.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 12-30-2018 at 10:36 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    You see them on this very website. They are typically Damian Wayne fans or Cassandra Cain fans, or some other Bat family character who is percieved as being neglected by DC. They see Tim Drake as sort of stealing the possibility of these aforementioned Bat Family members from getting the spotlight as well. As well as criticisms that he is bland, and having other detractors.
    The IMPORTANT thing that Bendis loves Tim. Nobody cares what "little people" on a comic book forum think.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    The IMPORTANT thing that Bendis loves Tim. Nobody cares what "little people" on a comic book forum think.
    Fortunately, in a lot of cases.

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