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  1. #1066
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    The better example of a team show is THE FLASH. It's a team of super-heroes all in costume who get together and fight bad guys. The name is "The Flash" but that's just the popular IP that draws in the audience. Since "Justice League" is another popular IP name, it would probably get as large an audience. I love LEGENDS OF TOMORROW, but that's not a name that is going to bring in enough viewers. And because of that, it doesn't get a big enough budget to do the costumes and the special effects. The time travel itself is enough of a cost--since they have to dress sets for different time periods and have costumes for the period.
    "Whatever happens, nothing ruffles Ralph's wife Sue! Just looking at her makes you realize that everything's all right in the world--and probably always will be!"--Batman, DETECTIVE COMICS 343.

  2. #1067
    Astonishing Member protege's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The better example of a team show is THE FLASH. It's a team of super-heroes all in costume who get together and fight bad guys. The name is "The Flash" but that's just the popular IP that draws in the audience. Since "Justice League" is another popular IP name, it would probably get as large an audience. I love LEGENDS OF TOMORROW, but that's not a name that is going to bring in enough viewers. And because of that, it doesn't get a big enough budget to do the costumes and the special effects. The time travel itself is enough of a cost--since they have to dress sets for different time periods and have costumes for the period.
    If thatís the case, why does it keep getting renewed?

  3. #1068
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    If that’s the case, why does it keep getting renewed?
    Let's be honest it's the CW none of their shows would be renewed on another Network or Streaming.

  4. #1069
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post

    Isn't Superman's symbol different from Supergirl's? I think his has the bubble tail on the S (the best version) while hers has the square tail.

    When they did flashbacks on SUPERGIRL with a wig, it looked pretty bad. So they probably decided this time to avoid the problem and let the hair be what it is.

    Honestly, the low-rent look of some of the effects and the outfits is the feature of the Arrowverse. It's what I'm here for. I want that cheese. Feed me some more.
    CW-Crisis-on-Infinite-Earth-Justice-League-table-final-300x147.jpg

    Here are all of the symbols on the backs of the chairs. You're right- Superman's is more rounded on the bottom, and Supergirl's is more squared off.

    Most of the FX work is good on these shows, especially for TV. It has been very weak this season so far, and I think that's due to them pulling as much money as they could from the shows to do Crisis.

    As for the wigs- it's a staple of these shows to wear bad wigs in flashbacks and flashforwards. Just look at the horrid, horrid wigs worn by-

    Caity Lotz
    Paul Blackthorne
    Rick Gonzales
    Stephen Amell

    The only people who have worn good wigs would be Willa Holland and Katie Cassidy, both who managed to get wigs that perfectly mirrored their hairstyle from a previous season.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'm guessing that the cinematic aspect ratio for the Speed Force scenes makes it more likely that their "Flash of Two Worlds" could be used again in a Flash movie. 24 hours ago, I would have said the likelihood of that movie ever being made was low--but COIE makes it seem much more possible now. Clever move on Ezra Miller's part.
    Well, apparently it was WB that reached out to Marc and asked him if they could have Ezra in the crossover, to which Marc agreed even though the episode was already locked. And that was a smart move on WB's part- it keeps Ezra's Flash in the people's minds while they work on getting his movie made, which wont even be out for a few more years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Anybody else shipping Alex and Kate?
    Anyone's better than Kelly. Hell, bring back Livewire and have her and Alex hook up.

    But again, I loved the fact that she was just hanging out with the Danvers sisters. I also loved Kara's overly happy reaction to seeing Kate when they faced Beebo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm surprised we didn't get any moments between Batwoman and the main Arrowverse LGBTQ characters, aside from Kate being with Kara and Alex at the end during the President's Address.
    I hope we get a mini crossover with Kate, Alex, and Sara having a girls night out.

    I also would love a ******action retelling of the Justice League episode (I think) when Supergirl hung out with Batgirl, and they ended up facing Harley and Livewire. Just swap out Batwoman for Batgirl, and maybe Magpie for Harley.

    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    If that’s the case, why does it keep getting renewed?
    Probably because it gets decent ratings, and is still relatively cheap to shoot depending on what date they travel to. The ships sets are built and they have screens to simulate the temporal zone live, which probably save a lot on VFX. The characters seldom get into costume anymore, and rarely use their powers. I think Ray was in the Atom suit more in the crossover than he was in the entire last season of the show. And on top of all of that, it's a short season, which benefits the CW because it means they can have two shows in the same timeslot at different points in the year.

  5. #1070
    Fantastic Member beatboks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    If that’s the case, why does it keep getting renewed?
    Lets be honest, its because its not a straight superhero show but more of a comedy spoof. That aslect of the show attracts an audience that doesnt care so much about the hard core effects etc.

    I watch the tick for much the same feel good reason and I dont care much about its effects either.

  6. #1071
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    It seems like CW needs as many shows as it can get--especially now that they expanded their schedule to Sunday. They renewed all their ongoing shows--and with ARROW and SUPERNATURAL going off the air, they have those holes to fill. And LEGENDS and BLACK LIGHTNING have shorter seasons.
    "Whatever happens, nothing ruffles Ralph's wife Sue! Just looking at her makes you realize that everything's all right in the world--and probably always will be!"--Batman, DETECTIVE COMICS 343.

  7. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatboks View Post
    Diana's replacement was covered. She was replaced by 3 characters.

    Fury was created for young all stars to cover her imvolvement with that team

    Miss America replaced her membership in the JSA and as secretary

    For those stories that Miss America's powerset couldnt suit, her nother Hippolyta was her replacement.

    Just like Arn Monro replaced GA Superman (with a powerset closer to 1938 supes without upgrade) etc.

    Roy Thomas was maticulous in filling thise gaps, though he was undercut a little
    He also had those characters debut after the events of All-Star Squadron, meaning that they couldn’t fill in for any of the heroes they replaced during All-Star Squadron.

    And Superman had more interaction with the Justice Society/Justice Battalion and the Squadron in All-Star Squadron than he had in any actual Golden-Age books.

    He more or less founded the team and ducked out aside from the Well of Destiny business. It never would have caused issues just to have a time traveling Superman and Batman basically live out their Golden Age crossover appearances. They were minimal and mostly only involved contact with super-heroes in private settings.

    I think Jay Garrick and a couple others cameoed in Superman comics a few times in the 50s. Easter egg cameos.

    But Young All-Stars was kind of an ill-conceived premise all around. I have affection for the characters but not for any of the reasons they were created.
    Last edited by Patrick Gerard; 01-15-2020 at 09:03 PM.

  8. #1073
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    BTW, was the President someone I should know?
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  9. #1074
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    BTW, was the President someone I should know?
    I assumed the president was a character from Supergirl.

  10. #1075
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I assumed the president was a character from Supergirl.
    I only recall Linda Carter and Bruce Boxleiter.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  11. #1076
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    question for people who may know more than me.

    Hasn't an actor portrayed Jim Corrigan before? And any reason they didn't get him?

    At the end of last season's Arrow, Felicity goes to join Ollie. I expected to get that scene during Crisis, but we didn't.

    And thank you all for explaining who the Flash was. I didn't recognize Era Miller.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  12. #1077
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    question for people who may know more than me.

    Hasn't an actor portrayed Jim Corrigan before? And any reason they didn't get him?
    Probably logistics, but Constantine does say that Corrigan didn't look like the Corrigan he knew.
    At the end of last season's Arrow, Felicity goes to join Ollie. I expected to get that scene during Crisis, but we didn't.
    We'll probably get the follow up in the Arrow finale.

  13. #1078
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Probably logistics, but Constantine does say that Corrigan didn't look like the Corrigan he knew.

    We'll probably get the follow up in the Arrow finale.
    I thought that was the last episode?
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

  14. #1079
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Now that was a conclusion! I think all the fun cameos happened in the first couple parts (although Ezra Miller was the cameo I really wasn't expecting but still hoping for and the Doom Patrol made me laugh) so that way the core Paragons could take the focus in the conclusion. Oliver passed the mantle on to Mia before so that he could spend his remaining screentime saying goodbye to Barry and Sara. Kate still feels like the new kid (her scene in the Speed Force was my least favorite), but Ryan did a good job being the down to Earth human element.

    I can't say I liked the Shadow Demons, but at least the Anti-Monitor fights were cool (although with Alex, Diggle, and Rene just shooting at him, I'm kind of like, you're superheroes, and this is the best you can do?). Yet somehow it's the fight with Weather Witch and Sargon that made it feel...right. This is truly the Age of Heroes when Barry can assist Kara in fighting Weather Witch and apologize that she's one of his.

    I'm glad there's an Earth-Prime while the other shows can remain on their own, but I'm still a little confused by Earth-2. It seems like they can't merge that Earth, not just because of Laurel, but Harry and Jesse as well. If Nash is our one and only Wells, we'll never see Harry again? Can we get characters like Atom Smasher and Dr. Light in for real? And is Argo and Alura still gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    I wonder how or if, they’re going to top this next year.
    I'm looking forward to seeing a cohesive Justice League. We have all the lead characters of the current shows plus J'onn, so it would be easy to have, say, an Appellaxian show up in Gotham while another shows up in Freeland and everyone compares notes and meets up at the Hall of Justice and goes off together to fight an epic battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I'm liking Ryan Choi. Anyone know if he's going to be part of any of the shows going forward?
    He's got to replace Ray as the Atom, right? Hopefully we'll see him on Legends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    So Barry really did create the Justice League on his world. But if they can't be called that, are they the Super Friends or the All-Star Squadron?
    I'm glad we got to see Barry form the Justice League, since that was hinted at years ago. As for the name...well, if they call themselves "Super Friends", it can be a nod to Barry and Kara's song.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    And btw, the Marv Wolfman cameo was priceless! I can't imagine what it was like for him to see his story brought to life like this and to be able to step into it!
    I caught his name as a writing credit for one episode, I wonder how involved he was for this? Also, the final battle in Perez Square was a nice nod to George Perez.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    It was funny and unexpected that it all ended with a "Superfriends" reference, and funnier that of the actual Superfriends, the only one there is Superman and he's the only one not on a show (until his show starts next season)
    Well, there's also the Flash who came in later seasons. And I fully expect someone to accidentally call Jeff "Black Vulcan" at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Reading the comic and watching the TV version back-to-back, it is jarring how few super-heroes there are on the CW version--and hardly any super-villains except Lex Luthor. Of course, the CW doesn't have as many characters as the comics--but no Reverse Flash, Black Siren, Kid Flash, Ragman.
    Well, the Killer Frost/Firestorm romance that was a subplot in the comics got plenty of development in the Arrowverse. As for Ragman, I liked how Rene mentioned him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    So did the reboot separate the Titans and Doom Patrol or since there was different Chief actors the Titans Doom Patrol and show Doom Patrol were always different versions?
    They were always separate Earths. Hmm, now I want Titans to get their own version of Cyborg (or at least I would if the cast wasn't bloated enough as it is).

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The final battle did feel smaller then Earth-X, with less heroes. I guess they just couldn't figure a way for all the Legends, Team Arrow, or Team Flash to be in it. I mean, did Ralph do anything in this crossover? Nate and Ava were just on the Waverider. Neither Black Canary, Laurel or Dinah, got to really do anything.
    Ralph was there to recruit Ryan and show his powers to prove they were superheroes. I guess seeing was believing for him. I wonder if there are going to be any reserve Leaguers? It would be fitting to have the likes of Elongated Man, Black Canary, and the Atom to be "on call" even if they're not part of the official line-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Superman wasn't a Paragon so I'm not sure why he was surprised at having two sons, unless J'onn's mind whammy to give him his memories back just made him forget. Is the other kid going to turn out to be Chris Kent/Lor-Zod?
    That would be interesting. I was wondering if there was more to Routh's Superman saying Jonathan looked just like Jason?

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Well, now that it's all over, what little cameos or interactions do you wish could have been included? (obviously, bringing in everyone would have been cool, but which are the tops on your list?)
    -- Lynda Carter as some version of Hippolyta.
    -- Kate running into the Mazouz Bruce Wayne from "Gotham."
    -- The Legion of Superheroes somewhere.
    -- Vixen (either of them), Hawkman and Hawkwoman.
    Lynda Carter and Dean Cain were my top 2, but I would've loved some acknowledgement of Gotham.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    DCEU Flash might also streamline his costume to look more like Gustin's suit.
    Yes please! I'm not getting my hopes up for that Flash to even acknowledge this crossover or say it's where he got his name from, but if that does happen, it would be great!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm surprised we didn't get any moments between Batwoman and the main Arrowverse LGBTQ characters, aside from Kate being with Kara and Alex at the end during the President's Address.
    Speaking of LGBTQ representation, I'm relieved we never got SuperCorp. It wouldn't send a great message if all three female Leaguers were into women. I'd like to see Kate strike up a friendship with Sara, though. Maybe have them fight an Al Ghul or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I also would love a ******action retelling of the Justice League episode (I think) when Supergirl hung out with Batgirl, and they ended up facing Harley and Livewire. Just swap out Batwoman for Batgirl, and maybe Magpie for Harley.
    That works too ("Girls Night Out" was actually an episode of The New Batman Adventures). While I'd love to see Batwoman and White Canary team-up, they really did build something with this new World's Finest of Supergirl and Batwoman, and they definitely need a team-up for just the two of them.

  15. #1080

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    I thought that was the last episode?
    No, we got two more eps of Arrow to go. The penultimate episode will be the backdoor spinoff pilot "Green Arrow and the Canaries", and then the following week we'll get the series finale entitled "Fadeout".

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