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  1. #1111
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    So...if the Multiverse was apparently never a factor on Earth-Prime like it was on Earth-1, that leaves a lot of questions as to how things played out on Earth-Prime if the events of the respective shows are still relatively in-continuity:

    1. How does a merged Earth account for all the multiple versions of Harrison Wells who aided Team Flash? Where does Nash fit into it? How does Team Flash remember Harry and Jesse?

    2. Was Zoom now always Earth-1 Hunter Zolomon? Was the Jay Garrick ruse still a thing or did Zolomon just pretend to be an ally to Team Flash?

    3. How did Earth-X happen? Did it? Did they change Professor Stein's death?

    4. Was Barry ever mentored by a Jay Garrick in this continuity?

    5. What is Earth-2 Laurel's status on a merged Earth? How would she be remembered and what is going through her head now that her Earth-2 doesn't exist anymore?

    6. What was the reason for Barry and Kara's first team-up? Did he just run through National City while training to defeat Zoom?

    7. Does the timeline for Black Lightning, Superman, and Batman's careers now change in the merged timeline? Or Oliver's to where he might actually predate Batman this time?
    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Sooooo….is the Monitor still alive, and if so, is he a different version (since the Anti-Monitor said there would always be one in the Multi-verse to make his tragic mistake)?
    I figure he's alive if only because of that scene at the end of Arrow season 7 where he takes Future!Felicity to see Oliver.

  2. #1112
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    After the original COIE, DC didn't do much to fill in the blanks for readers. That might be the same for the CW.

    HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE (1986) came out too soon, before all the changes had taken hold. But I'd like to see the CW do some kind of clip show, with Audrey Marie Anderson (Lyla/Harbinger) filming extra bits in front of a green screen, explaining the history of Earth-Prime. They could air that as a special series, when most of the shows are on a break (as they usually are in the spring).

    I expect the Paragons' memories of the old multiverse will fade and they'll start to remember their new life instead.
    " I'm shocked! shocked! to find that gambling is going on in here!"

  3. #1113
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Thinking about this some more, the Ezra Miller part does serve an in-story purpose for our Barry and the audience. It tells our Barry that he still has other counterparts out there--thus there's hope for a multiverse, they aren't doomed and that gives Barry the boost to save everyone, and it connects to the end of the crossover, when we see some of the other Earths in the new multiverse.
    I think it was more important for Erza Flash as meeting Gustin Barry gave him his superhero name.

  4. #1114
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    The final episode was (mostly) fun, but overall this crossover was a dud, imo. I did like the various cameos and easter eggs but the main storyline was pretty wishy-washy, and part 4 in particular was a low point after the month-long wait for it. just reminded me of why i don't really watch many of the CW shows any more.. .although i'm still tuning in to Black Lightning. It will be interesting to see if/how his show changes as a result of his earth being merged with that of Flash & Supergirl. Seems like the whole "meta" issue would be rendered moot or resolved quickly with some help from his new friends.

  5. #1115
    The Cyborg Sage Jeremi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    He's literally the reason this whole universe even exists. Every show in this universe started from his. He's the Iron Man of it. It would have been offensive if he didn't get more praise.
    Too bad his show hasn't been really worth watching since maybe season 2? I also like how everyone had such kind words to say about Oliver when in his show it feels like everyone on one level utterly hated each other in one form or another lol.

    Like yes, I understand he was the first, but Arrow has always been oh we weren't allowed to do Batman so we're just doing that but with Green Arrow band he happens to murder people before he doesn't.

  6. #1116
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    I want a new Earth 3 with the CSA.

  7. #1117
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Too bad his show hasn't been really worth watching since maybe season 2? I also like how everyone had such kind words to say about Oliver when in his show it feels like everyone on one level utterly hated each other in one form or another lol.

    Like yes, I understand he was the first, but Arrow has always been oh we weren't allowed to do Batman so we're just doing that but with Green Arrow band he happens to murder people before he doesn't.
    There have been good seasons of Arrow past season 2.

    As much as there are seasons where his supporting cast treats him like dirt there have been just as much that emphasize how important he is and how much he has helped people, and that's usually been at full display in the crossovers.

  8. #1118
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    I'm just glad Ms.Olibur is gone.

  9. #1119
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I want a new Earth 3 with the CSA.
    That would be so good. Maybe a future crossover.

  10. #1120
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Yeah, when they made the JSA Earth-2 again, I kind of got the sense that Earth-3 became the Crime Syndicate and the "evil versions of Earth-Prime" again.

  11. #1121
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshal88 View Post
    lame ending but expected. arrowverse heroes , carebear stare. guess kevin tran received the power of the cw gods to punch those dementors into oblivion.

    Just rewatched it, and damn if I didn't burst out laughing when they did the stare this time. Thanks for that, I'll never NOT be able to think about the Care Bears when I watch this in the future


    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    My understanding is that she was an actress on Babylon 5. Since I didn't watch it, I have no idea who she is. Other than she played a sci-fi character on another sci-fi show, IDK what her connection to the DCU is. If any. My guess is Lynda Carter was asking too much and she was available.
    Carter's character was removed from office early last season. But I do wish they had managed a cameo from her somewhere in here.


    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    I'm assuming they have the plot of the Flash movie by now and if the movie people asked then they this meeting probably took place at some point in the movie.
    You may be right. Just read an interview with Guggenheim where he said he didn't get to see any script, but there were representatives from Warner Brothers on the set when they filmed that scene to vet everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    As for Earth 2. To me this is a whole new Earth 2 based more on the classic comic version. If they really wanted to be clever they could still use Tom Kavanaugh and Violett Beane on Earth 2. Since they are using a lot of legacy characters on Stargirl they could still have Violett as Jesse Quick only instead of Harry they could have Kavanaugh playing her dad Johnny Quick. They could also use new version of Atom Smasher and Obsidian and all the other legacy JSA characters if they really want too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    All the Speed Force scenes felt like they were kind of padding things out, but Kate's was the only one that actually felt like it had a point of giving Kate a scene with Oliver and having her actually learn something from him.

    Now that you mention it, how does Nash make sense if the Multiverse never existed? How could there have been multiple Harrison Wells' on Team Flash?

    Maybe Jesse is Nash's daughter. He seemed to have had one judging by how he interacted with Allegra.
    Since Violet has her own very successful TV show on Fox right now, I wouldn't be surprised if they either took the opportunity to recast the role, or had Alegra be a version of Jesse with sonic powers instead of the Speed Force.


    Ryan seemed at home at STAR Labs, so could he join Team Flash? He seems too normal for Legends.
    Plus, I highly doubt he'd want to leave his wife and child, even if he could be brought back to the moment he left them. On top of that, STAR Labs seems to be whole and fully functional again, so it would make sense for him to go work there.

    There's still that scene of The Monitor taking Felicity to where Oliver is. I don't think he's completely dead.
    I'm actually starting to think that scene was nothing more than a Red Herring, meant to throw us off of the idea that Oliver would actually die in Crisis.

    From what I've been reading, the future that Mia came from is completely different now after the Crisis. Also, I just read that Mia will be meeting Felicity at some point, either in this coming episode or the last one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Thinking about this some more, the Ezra Miller part does serve an in-story purpose for our Barry and the audience. It tells our Barry that he still has other counterparts out there--thus there's hope for a multiverse, they aren't doomed and that gives Barry the boost to save everyone, and it connects to the end of the crossover, when we see some of the other Earths in the new multiverse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I think it was more important for Erza Flash as meeting Gustin Barry gave him his superhero name.
    I wonder if they will use that scene in his movie, or if they will refilm it from Ezra Flash's point of view. You'd think they would, if the studio were the ones to request the cameo in the first place.

    Or maybe this was there way of showing that there can be multiple actors playing the same role.

  12. #1122
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I wonder if they will use that scene in his movie, or if they will refilm it from Ezra Flash's point of view. You'd think they would, if the studio were the ones to request the cameo in the first place.

    Or maybe this was there way of showing that there can be multiple actors playing the same role.
    It wouldn't surprise me if one reason is they liked being able to avoid having a scene in the movie where he or someone thinks of the name. Hopefully he'll just be called "The Flash" and we can move on with the story. And if you saw "Crisis", then you'll know where the name came from, otherwise I don't think people are going to be wondering where he got the name if they only saw him in the movies.

  13. #1123
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    I love that we got Ezra Miller, but they could've easily had the DCEU Superman in here somewgere. The tradition seems to be that they are showing less and less of him. In Justice League, his mouth was hidden. In Shazam, his head was hidden. Here, his whole torso could've been hidden and we could have just seen his legs. Would also double as a reference to how Superman first appeared on the Supergirl show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elden View Post
    Loved that Routh's Superman survived and is back in the classic costume. Not sure whether it's meant to be that the Joker's killing spree didn't happen in the reboot or that he's moved on and got his hope back after it. I hope it's the latter as that would be a nice optimistic take, but either is cool.
    I'd like to think the Joker thing never happened, but I like even better that they left it up to our own interpretation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Supergirl mentions Argo is back in the finale so I am assuming Alura is too.

    As for Earth 2. To me this is a whole new Earth 2 based more on the classic comic version. If they really wanted to be clever they could still use Tom Kavanaugh and Violett Beane on Earth 2. Since they are using a lot of legacy characters on Stargirl they could still have Violett as Jesse Quick only instead of Harry they could have Kavanaugh playing her dad Johnny Quick. They could also use new version of Atom Smasher and Obsidian and all the other legacy JSA characters if they really want too.
    That would be cool, and it could work even with Nash around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    All the Speed Force scenes felt like they were kind of padding things out, but Kate's was the only one that actually felt like it had a point of giving Kate a scene with Oliver and having her actually learn something from him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Other than maybe the Ezra Miller part, the cinematic aspect ratio scenes were relevant to the story being told. Although we didn't know it at the time, part 4 is the last Arrowverse episode set in the old continuity and those scenes remind of us of key elements in that old continuity--which will soon be overthrown in the next episode. We see the scene from Invasion, which reminds us of the first time we saw the Hall of Justice. And then in part 5, we see it again, but it doesn't come out of the blue because we were reminded of it in that scene. In the Elseworlds scene, Oliver explains to Barry the deal he made with the Monitor and he delivers the line about the dead being at peace and the heroes have to go on--which sets up his last lines to Barry as he goes to his rest, while Barry must carry on.
    I'll have to watch the Speed Force scenes again (and the entirety of both episodes), but Kate felt the most disconnected from hers. Then again, Sara was dead for most of hers, so there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Thinking about this some more, the Ezra Miller part does serve an in-story purpose for our Barry and the audience. It tells our Barry that he still has other counterparts out there--thus there's hope for a multiverse, they aren't doomed and that gives Barry the boost to save everyone, and it connects to the end of the crossover, when we see some of the other Earths in the new multiverse.
    It's kind of fitting since Barry just had to watch himself die. So now he can see that there's another version of himself who is young, full of hope, and eager for heroism. It's almost like JWS passed the Flash baton on to GG who then passed it on to EM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Does the timeline for Black Lightning, Superman, and Batman's careers now change in the merged timeline? Or Oliver's to where he might actually predate Batman this time?
    I feel like Black Lightning and Batman can have the same history if their stories and adventures remain contained to their respective cities. As for Superman, I feel like the new show is going to have to do some smoothing over of things. Superman was always older than he looked because of his powers, but that doesn't explain why Lois is so young (Bitsie Tulloch is like 15-20 years younger than Calista Flockhart), and then you factor in Jimmy. They might have to do some time compressing for Superman there, not even so much out of necessity, but just to make things easier (we could also forgive Clark for not taking such an active role in Kara's life when she first landed on Earth if he is younger).

    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    You may be right. Just read an interview with Guggenheim where he said he didn't get to see any script, but there were representatives from Warner Brothers on the set when they filmed that scene to vet everything.
    Is the Flash movie supposed to be his origin and take place before Justice League? By the events of that movie, he already discovered and named the Speed Force.

  14. #1124
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    As we all know, by the time Kara arrived on earth her cousin had already grown up to become... Superman! And yet Green Arrow was the first superhero? We can just write off that comment as the President being overly reverential, right? No need to retool the timeline or anything...

  15. #1125
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    Plus, if the Superman and Lois series is set in present day, their sons are supposed to be teen-agers--which means Superman has been active on Earth-Prime for a good numbers of years.
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